Our ridiculous logjam at guard

[mook]

I'd love for them to target Butler. It's a little risky--CJ is happy here, and is 2 years younger and has a lot less miles. Butler is more of a win-now move, and hope that Trent or Simons eventually replaces CJ.

CJ actually makes a lot of sense on that twolves team. He creates a lot more space and lets Wiggins play his natural slashing role better with more space in the middle.

 

[Hoopguru]

I'd love for them to target Butler. It's a little risky--CJ is happy here, and is 2 years younger and has a lot less miles. Butler is more of a win-now move, and hope that Trent or Simons eventually replaces CJ.

CJ actually makes a lot of sense on that twolves team. He creates a lot more space and lets Wiggins play his natural slashing role better with more space in the middle.

I think the key is if either Mo, GTjr, AS, or even Layman step up and can hit threes's, that how you would offset the loss CJ and the addition of Butler. Otherwise we are in the same boat as the TWolves w/o a gun slinging 3 point shooter. I think both the rookies rep both good D and above average shooting.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I don't know.....but I do know that 'chemistry' hasn't produced a win in the Playoffs in the last 2 years....even when we were the higher seed with HCA.

Yes, it has. Without chemistry, the Spurs wouldn't have been in the playoffs in the last 5 years. With it, they have plenty of playoff wins.

However, that is really a tangent. Rumors of Butler being hard to play with are plentiful. Is that a potential problem? Absolutely. Will those concerns go away if he is traded to Portland? I say they will, but I have to put on my Rose Garden-colored glasses to say it.

 

[RR7]

Looking for other trade fits, with our "ridiculous logjam", and who has similar issues.

Sacramento depth chart:

De'Aaron Fox/
Buddy Hield/Shumpert/Mclemore
Bogdanovic/Justin Jackson
Zach Randolph/Bagley/Giles/Skal Labissiere
Willy Cauley Stein/Koufos/Deyonta Davis

They have 7 or 8 bigs on the roster. They're also about 10 million below the salary floor, not that it really matters.
Brooklyn sent out 2 seconds to get out of final year of Mozgov.
Evan Turner and 2 seconds for Zach Randolph?

 

[blue9]

Evan Turner and 2 seconds for Zach Randolph?

Done!

 

[illmatic99]

Looking for other trade fits, with our "ridiculous logjam", and who has similar issues.

Sacramento depth chart:

De'Aaron Fox/
Buddy Hield/Shumpert/Mclemore
Bogdanovic/Justin Jackson
Zach Randolph/Bagley/Giles/Skal Labissiere
Willy Cauley Stein/Koufos/Deyonta Davis

They have 7 or 8 bigs on the roster. They're also about 10 million below the salary floor, not that it really matters.
Brooklyn sent out 2 seconds to get out of final year of Mozgov.
Evan Turner and 2 seconds for Zach Randolph?

You forgot they're about to add another 4 in Bjelica.

Make that Koufos instead of Zach and I'm in.

Zach is washed. Watching him try to guard the pick and roll as Dame carved em up for 50 was eye opening. ZBo is done.

 

[RR7]

You forgot they're about to add another 4 in Bjelica.

Make that Koufos instead of Zach and I'm in.

Zach is washed. Watching him try to guard the pick and roll as Dame carved em up for 50 was eye opening. ZBo is done.

Good call, probably makes more sense, and gives us a backup 5. And, an added bonus for ownership, saves us 9 million this season, getting us under the LT

 

[TBpup]

I think the key is if either Mo, GTjr, AS, or even Layman step up and can hit threes's, that how you would offset the loss CJ and the addition of Butler. Otherwise we are in the same boat as the TWolves w/o a gun slinging 3 point shooter. I think both the rookies rep both good D and above average shooting.

Curry shot .425 from '3' last year. (better than CJ) Stauskas (limited games) shot .404 from '3' last year. (better than CJ). Gary Trent Jr .402 from '3' in college which means Jack Squat but he's not a bricklayer either. (btw....better than CJ) The point is, the Blazers have several options along with an improved Baldwin and Layman (hopefully) to replace CJ's shooting while adding a scorer/slasher and elite defender.

Rumors of Butler being hard to play with are plentiful. Is that a potential problem? Absolutely. Will those concerns go away if he is traded to Portland? I say they will, but I have to put on my Rose Garden-colored glasses to say it.

I've heard that as well so talked to a few 'folks'. His drive to be good/great and will to win he feels is not matched by other players. I would tend to agree. However, would it be fair to say he wouldn't have that problem in Portland with Dame?

 

[1eyejack]

Curry shot .425 from '3' last year. (better than CJ) Stauskas (limited games) shot .404 from '3' last year. (better than CJ). Gary Trent Jr .402 from '3' in college which means Jack Squat but he's not a bricklayer either. (btw....better than CJ) The point is, the Blazers have several options along with an improved Baldwin and Layman (hopefully) to replace CJ's shooting while adding a scorer/slasher and elite defender.



I've heard that as well so talked to a few 'folks'. His drive to be good/great and will to win he feels is not matched by other players. I would tend to agree. However, would it be fair to say he wouldn't have that problem in Portland with Dame?

100% all in on Butler, exactly type of player we need and would have no problem trading C.J for him.

 

[illmatic99]

Curry shot .425 from '3' last year. (better than CJ) Stauskas (limited games) shot .404 from '3' last year. (better than CJ). Gary Trent Jr .402 from '3' in college which means Jack Squat but he's not a bricklayer either. (btw....better than CJ) The point is, the Blazers have several options along with an improved Baldwin and Layman (hopefully) to replace CJ's shooting while adding a scorer/slasher and elite defender.



I've heard that as well so talked to a few 'folks'. His drive to be good/great and will to win he feels is not matched by other players. I would tend to agree. However, would it be fair to say he wouldn't have that problem in Portland with Dame?

Is there any reason to actually get excited about a potential Butler move? I don't think Neil has the guts to trade CJ. Are these "folks" just throwing names around or could there be something concrete?

 

[Scalma]

Curry shot .425 from '3' last year. (better than CJ) Stauskas (limited games) shot .404 from '3' last year. (better than CJ). Gary Trent Jr .402 from '3' in college which means Jack Squat but he's not a bricklayer either. (btw....better than CJ) The point is, the Blazers have several options along with an improved Baldwin and Layman (hopefully) to replace CJ's shooting while adding a scorer/slasher and elite defender.



I've heard that as well so talked to a few 'folks'. His drive to be good/great and will to win he feels is not matched by other players. I would tend to agree. However, would it be fair to say he wouldn't have that problem in Portland with Dame?

Not really related to this post, but are you saying you’ve heard Portland is interested in Butler, or is that just your guess?

 

[Hoopguru]

Curry shot .425 from '3' last year. (better than CJ) Stauskas (limited games) shot .404 from '3' last year. (better than CJ). Gary Trent Jr .402 from '3' in college which means Jack Squat but he's not a bricklayer either. (btw....better than CJ) The point is, the Blazers have several options along with an improved Baldwin and Layman (hopefully) to replace CJ's shooting while adding a scorer/slasher and elite defender.



I've heard that as well so talked to a few 'folks'. His drive to be good/great and will to win he feels is not matched by other players. I would tend to agree. However, would it be fair to say he wouldn't have that problem in Portland with Dame?

Hey, much better salmon fishing out here! Yeah sofa is the land of lakes, but it so damn cold and flat back there.
If Butler came to Portland he would fall in love with our mountains, high desert and ocean. The guy is a total outdoorsman. The mailman was too.

 

[BBert]

Is there any reason to actually get excited about a potential Butler move? I don't think Neil has the guts to trade CJ. Are these "folks" just throwing names around or could there be something concrete?

CJ for Butler: I would do it. You would do it. The Board would do it. I think Neil would do it.

Question is: Would Paul Allen do it? I hope so. Would Minnesota? It's not looking like it.

I'd love a CJ and Turner for Butler and anyone.

 

[illmatic99]

CJ for Butler: I would do it. You would do it. The Board would do it. I think Neil would do it.

Question is: Would Paul Allen do it? I hope so. Would Minnesota? It's not looking like it.

I'd love a CJ and Turner for Butler and anyone.

If there is real fear of Butler walking next summer, getting CJ on contract for 3 more years would be a massive coup for Minny.

 

[blue9]

The only downside would be keeping CJ in our Division.

 

[BBert]

The only downside would be keeping CJ in our Division.

Minnesota might feel the same about Butler

 

[blue9]

Minnesota might feel the same about Butler

True.
But OTOH, they seem to LOVE acquiring Blazers. So maybe it'll happen?

 

[BBert]

I just want to interject (sorry, marginally off topic) that so many people seem to put 100% of the responsibility for trades and lack of trades on the Blazers GM, while seemingly ignoring the role Paul Allen plays in decisions that affect the team and the roster.

It is impossible for me to believe that ANY move gets made, or rejected, without Paul Allen's review and approval. Paul should not get a pass on trades that happen, and especially not on trades that don't happen. Paul is the ultimate decider.

Also, if anyone "falls in love with" players, IMO that would be the Trail Blazers Number One Fan, Paul Allen, and not slick talking, self dealing Neil Olshey. As for sticking with "his guys", I doubt someone like Olshey has any "guys". His focus undoubtedly is, and should be in this situation, his own personal success, which is okay because his personal success is directly tied to team success.

I've also read posts insinuating, if not stating, that Olshey won't do "X" because he's afraid of taking risks. Seriously? No highly successful person becomes highly successful without taking risks.

Sorry for the ramble.

Carry on

 

[Reep]

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/07/20/n...anthony-jimmy-butler-five-lingering-questions

WILL THE WOLVES CONSIDER MOVING JIMMY BUTLER?
Jimmy Butler reportedly turned down an extension from Minnesota, though it made no financial sense for him to make the move. Still, Butler has seemingly been rumored to be a little miffed with his Minny teammates from Day 1, and now there are rumors that he and Kyrie Irving want to team up next summer. It would be a little shocking for the Wolves to pull the plug on the Butler experiment so early, and losing him while keeping Andrew Wiggins on his huge contract would be bleak for the future. However, listening to offers may not be the worst idea. Maybe the Wolves themselves can get rid of a bad contract in a potential Butler trade.

The Kawhi situation has probably hurt teams trying to trade stars, though the Wolves would appear to have way more leverage than the Spurs. It’s just something to keep an eye on. Minny has never been a hotbed free-agent destination. If the front office catches wind that Butler wants to bounce next summer, they would be wise to try to recoup some assets for him. Would that affect Karl Towns’s willingness to stay long term? It’s possible. Ultimately, the Wolves were just barely a playoff team last year. (Butler’s injury didn’t help.) Their situation may be a little more precarious than the team is willing to admit.

 

[BBert]

True.
But OTOH, they seem to LOVE acquiring Blazers. So maybe it'll happen?

Haha. So true. I'm not remembering the details, but IIRC they pursued a bunch of Blazers and ex-Blazers a few years ago.

 

[e_blazer]

So, if you trade CJ for Butler, are you going to play Butler at SF or SG? If you're going to play him a SG, then you've still got the hit and miss production of Mo Harkless at SF. If Butler starts at SF, then who gets the start at SG, Curry? Stauskas? Trent? I'd be a lot happier with making that move after we've seen how those guys perform.

 

[illmatic99]

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/07/20/n...anthony-jimmy-butler-five-lingering-questions

From the same link:

The money crunch hasn’t only hurt free agents, it’s hurt teams who are stuck with long-term money. The Heat, Hornets and Blazers are just a few teams who came into this summer probably hoping on some level to get rid of a couple deals. It just hasn’t happened. On one hand, teams in the middle class aren’t desperate to make moves with the Warriors gap looming large. At the same time, I can’t imagine any of the teams mentioned are happy running it back next season with their rosters as presently constructed. Portland, especially, was a little exposed during the postseason. The Blazers’ run to the third seed was commendable, but their playoff exit was equally dispiriting. I’m a little surprised they are largely bringing back the same squad. Sooner rather than later, it may be time for something drastic in PDX.

 

[illmatic99]

So, if you trade CJ for Butler, are you going to play Butler at SF or SG? If you're going to play him a SG, then you've still got the hit and miss production of Mo Harkless at SF. If Butler starts at SF, then who gets the start at SG, Curry? Stauskas? Trent? I'd be a lot happier with making that move after we've seen how those guys perform.

CJ for Butler, then TPE for Courtney Lee.
ET + 2nds for Koufos

Dame/Lee/Butler/Aminu/Nurk
Bench: Wade/Curry/Moe/ Collins/Koufos

That's a solid top 10.

 

[tester551]

So, if you trade CJ for Butler, are you going to play Butler at SF or SG? If you're going to play him a SG, then you've still got the hit and miss production of Mo Harkless at SF. If Butler starts at SF, then who gets the start at SG, Curry? Stauskas? Trent? I'd be a lot happier with making that move after we've seen how those guys perform.

You work that out later... That's not something you worry about before the deal.

Having said that, I'd personally start him at the 2 and have him play the 3 quite a bit in 'smaller' lineups.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Haha. So true. I'm not remembering the details, but IIRC they pursued a bunch of Blazers and ex-Blazers a few years ago.

That was David Kahhhhhhn! He's been gone for a long time. The Nets seem to have taken up the mantle.

 

[illmatic99]

I just want to interject (sorry, marginally off topic) that so many people seem to put 100% of the responsibility for trades and lack of trades on the Blazers GM, while seemingly ignoring the role Paul Allen plays in decisions that affect the team and the roster.

It is impossible for me to believe that ANY move gets made, or rejected, without Paul Allen's review and approval. Paul should not get a pass on trades that happen, and especially not on trades that don't happen. Paul is the ultimate decider.

Also, if anyone "falls in love with" players, IMO that would be the Trail Blazers Number One Fan, Paul Allen, and not slick talking, self dealing Neil Olshey. As for sticking with "his guys", I doubt someone like Olshey has any "guys". His focus undoubtedly is, and should be in this situation, his own personal success, which is okay because his personal success is directly tied to team success.

I've also read posts insinuating, if not stating, that Olshey won't do "X" because he's afraid of taking risks. Seriously? No highly successful person becomes highly successful without taking risks.

Sorry for the ramble.

Carry on

Neil absolutely does have "his guys."

Look at everyone he brought in that he had in LA. He drafted Aminu one pick before Hayward and Paul George, and was one of the first acquisitions he made after Aldridge left. He brought in Kaman. He brought in Mo Williams. He stuck with and extended Meyers to a ridiculous contract. He's clearing the roster of players who would play in front of his guy Collins. He has repeatedly mentioned the idea of letting ET run the second unit to justify the contract he gave him.

You think PA is the one behind these moves?

 

[James lamphear]

I don't think Thibs would do this trade for reasons that Thibs love defense and I don't see him trading him to division foe.

 

[blue9]

You work that out later... That's not something you worry about before the deal.

Having said that, I'd personally start him at the 2 and have him play the 3 quite a bit in 'smaller' lineups.

Agreed. Dame, Butler, Harkless, Collins, Nurk
If another dependable SG comes along then maybe you look at shifting Butler to SF, but I prefer him at SG.

 

[e_blazer]

From the same link:

I think the idea that the Blazers have to make a big move depends upon the interpretation of what the sweep by the Pelicans meant. If you go all "Gronk", then the third seed meant nothing and the sweep is indicative of major shortcomings with the Blazers' roster. If you go all "NO", then you don't ignore the great success of the regular season and "overreact" to the sweep. You look at the Pelicans and say they were a bad match-up and you look at how they were able to dominate (lack of scoring from the PF/C position, lack of scoring from the backup guards, injuries to ET & Mo). Once you've done that, then you try to address those specific issues. What we've seen NO do is get better perimeter shooters for the backup guards and let Ed go in order to get Zach more minutes, presumably to address the front court scoring. Assuming ET and Harkless are healthy, is that enough to resolve the Pelican advantage? It seems to me like both Zach and Mo are too hit and miss in the scoring department to say that those moves have adequately addressed the issues. If I'm Gentry, I'm still having Davis double on Dame and CJ until the Blazers prove that they can score consistently from the SF and front court positions.

 

[RR7]

Neil absolutely does have "his guys."

Look at everyone he brought in that he had in LA. He drafted Aminu one pick before Hayward and Paul George, and was one of the first acquisitions he made after Aldridge left. He brought in Kaman. He brought in Mo Williams. He stuck with and extended Meyers to a ridiculous contract. He's clearing the roster of players who would play in front of his guy Collins. He has repeatedly mentioned the idea of letting ET run the second unit to justify the contract he gave him.

You think PA is the one behind these moves?

But he let Ed Davis walk. He signed him. He traded for ROlo, and let him walk. He traded away Will Barton. He traded away Allen Crabbe. He made moves for Vonleh and Plumlee, and moved on from both of them. Let Connaughton walk. Napier.