Our ridiculous logjam at guard

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Neil absolutely does have "his guys."

Look at everyone he brought in that he had in LA. He drafted Aminu one pick before Hayward and Paul George, and was one of the first acquisitions he made after Aldridge left. He brought in Kaman. He brought in Mo Williams. He stuck with and extended Meyers to a ridiculous contract. He's clearing the roster of players who would play in front of his guy Collins. He has repeatedly mentioned the idea of letting ET run the second unit to justify the contract he gave him.

You think PA is the one behind these moves?
I have to say, that's a decent argument.

Maybe a lot of that is because of familiarity? Does it really mean he wouldn't move one of them if he thought it would improve the team? For example: Wasn't Ed Davis one of 'his guys' since Olshey is the one who brought him in?

I can't believe Olshey wouldn't jump at the chance to get rid of Turner's contract if it would simultaneously improve the team; but that he won't if, in his estimation, it would make the team less competitive.

:cheers:
 
I don't think Thibs would do this trade for reasons that Thibs love defense and I don't see him trading him to division foe.
This could indeed be the holdup. Even if he would trade him to Portland, it would take CJ plus Turner or Aminu to give him back the defender he'd want.
 
But he let Ed Davis walk. He signed him. He traded for ROlo, and let him walk. He traded away Will Barton. He traded away Allen Crabbe. He made moves for Vonleh and Plumlee, and moved on from both of them. Let Connaughton walk. Napier.
Yes he did, but to suggest that Neil doesn't hold bias for some players is just not true. How many times has he tried to acquire Deandre?
 
Yes he did, but to suggest that Neil doesn't hold bias against some players is just not true. How many times has he tried to acquire Deandre?
None, I hope! LOL ;)
 
Yes he did, but to suggest that Neil doesn't hold bias for some players is just not true. How many times has he tried to acquire Deandre?
Who knows. Once? He didn't draft Jordan though. It just seems a convenient excuse for people to make, that doesn't hold a ton of truth, IMO. Aminu is one of his guys, but he traded him when he had the chance, instead of holding him like many insist he's doing with anyone he picked here.
 
I think the idea that the Blazers have to make a big move depends upon the interpretation of what the sweep by the Pelicans meant. If you go all "Gronk", then the third seed meant nothing and the sweep is indicative of major shortcomings with the Blazers' roster. If you go all "NO", then you don't ignore the great success of the regular season and "overreact" to the sweep. You look at the Pelicans and say they were a bad match-up and you look at how they were able to dominate (lack of scoring from the PF/C position, lack of scoring from the backup guards, injuries to ET & Mo). Once you've done that, then you try to address those specific issues. What we've seen NO do is get better perimeter shooters for the backup guards and let Ed go in order to get Zach more minutes, presumably to address the front court scoring. Assuming ET and Harkless are healthy, is that enough to resolve the Pelican advantage? It seems to me like both Zach and Mo are too hit and miss in the scoring department to say that those moves have adequately addressed the issues. If I'm Gentry, I'm still having Davis double on Dame and CJ until the Blazers prove that they can score consistently from the SF and front court positions.

I think a lot of that does get fixed by those moves, but I still see two problems that to me were the biggest:

1) Guard defense: Holiday lit us up. He is good, but not that good. We had nobody that could defend him. WB4 might have helped if he could get minutes, but I think we need a starting guard who could have slowed him down. No way Holiday scores like that if Butler is guarding him.

2) 2nd option to bust pressure. They went after Dame hard and CJ wasn't enough of a relief valve. I think having someone really aggressive like Butler would have helped there too.
 
This could indeed be the holdup. Even if he would trade him to Portland, it would take CJ plus Turner or Aminu to give him back the defender he'd want.

Lol let’s be real. There is no hold up. Olshey isn’t pursuing any real trade like that. He’s probably already on vacation.

Look at it like this: why take ANY risks if you don’t have to? His job is safe.
 
Lol let’s be real. There is no hold up. Olshey isn’t pursuing any real trade like that.
That's a disheartening thought. I can only hope you're wrong.

:cheers:
 
Lol let’s be real. There is no hold up. Olshey isn’t pursuing any real trade like that. He’s probably already on vacation.

Look at it like this: why take ANY risks if you don’t have to? His job is safe.

Yeah, Olshey never trades his draft picks and doesn't make risky moves--instead playing it safe.

On February 19, 2015, Afflalo was traded, along with Alonzo Gee, to the Portland Trail Blazers in exchange for Will Barton, Víctor Claver, Thomas Robinson, and a lottery-protected 2016 first-round pick.

I'm not saying that was a good move, but it certainly wasn't playing it safe or holding on to a player he drafted.
 
Yeah, Olshey never trades his draft picks and doesn't make risky moves--instead playing it safe.



I'm not saying that was a good move, but it certainly wasn't playing it safe or holding on to a player he drafted.

What year is it again?
 
Yeah, Olshey never trades his draft picks and doesn't make risky moves--instead playing it safe.



I'm not saying that was a good move, but it certainly wasn't playing it safe or holding on to a player he drafted.

You had to go back three years, kind of helping my point. And those were all bench players as well. Neil’s riskiest move was probably trading Batum, but to this day I still don’t understand why it was made. I could at least understand the Afflalo trade.
 
You had to go back three years, kind of helping my point. And those were all bench players as well. Neil’s riskiest move was probably trading Batum, but to this day I still don’t understand why it was made. I could at least understand the Afflalo trade.

I thought Batum was because they knew he would get offers for big money and they wanted to get something for him rather than overpay him through what was supposed to be a rebuild.

Not many GMs trade away players they drafted every season. My point is that I don't think NO is opposed to making such trades, he is just selective when he does it.
 
I wouldn't classify the Afflalo trade as "risky" in any sense of the word. Barton hadn't really shown all that much, other than some reckless highlights, and the other players we sent out were confirmed garbage. Absolutely NO risk in trading that mess for a proven NBA player. I just thought we targeted the wrong Nugget - should have gotten Chandler instead of Afflalo.
 
I thought Batum was because they knew he would get offers for big money and they wanted to get something for him rather than overpay him

Oh yeah, nevermind, that was another financial decision then.

One day we’ll get a pure basketball move again. One day.
 
Oh yeah, nevermind, that was another financial decision then.

One day we’ll get a pure basketball move again. One day.
All these moves have been about asset acquisition. Not actual team building.
 
@yuyuza1 @Scalma there is interest in Butler but it seems like Neil is trying to do it while keeping CJ and I just don't see MIN going for that. I appreciate trying to get JB on the cheap but at some point you have to give to get...and personally, I think it is worth the risk of a rental.

@blue9 ...there probably is some issue with trading within the division. But unless Boston comes rolling in with players/picks, I'm not sure where MIN gets more production than what CJ could bring. And without Dame in the backcourt, I can see CJ going in to the mid-20s in terms of scoring.
 
I don’t see any downside in trading CJ for Butler. It’s an upgrade for next season, and if you can’t sell him on staying, then it becomes a salary dump (or maybe even a sign and trade) and you start a reboot.

Neil needs to stop treating CJ like he’s an all star. It’s ridiculous.
 
@yuyuza1 @Scalma there is interest in Butler but it seems like Neil is trying to do it while keeping CJ and I just don't see MIN going for that. I appreciate trying to get JB on the cheap but at some point you have to give to get...and personally, I think it is worth the risk of a rental.
Makes sense to exhaust that option first. Adding Butler to Dame and CJ gives us a really good starting lineup in Dame/CJ/Butler/Aminu/Nurk. I think you can compete for the 2 seed with that lineup, personally. Swapping out CJ for Butler overall makes us a better team most likely, but I don't think it necessarily elevates us the same way. I still likely make that swap, but doing it without CJ would be awesome
 
Makes sense to exhaust that option first. Adding Butler to Dame and CJ gives us a really good starting lineup in Dame/CJ/Butler/Aminu/Nurk. I think you can compete for the 2 seed with that lineup, personally. Swapping out CJ for Butler overall makes us a better team most likely, but I don't think it necessarily elevates us the same way. I still likely make that swap, but doing it without CJ would be awesome

Collins
Harkless
Turner
Pick

4

Butler
Dieng

Let’s gooo.

It’s depressing to think about how we probably spend more time talking trades than the actual GM.
 
Collins
Harkless
Turner
Pick

4

Butler
Dieng

Let’s gooo.

It’s depressing to think about how we probably spend more time talking trades than the actual GM.

I would hopeso. some trades discussed here dont work under the CBA or are too outlandish. I dont want the GM spinning his wheels on stuff that cant happen.
 
Collins
Harkless
Turner
Pick

4

Butler
Dieng

Let’s gooo.

It’s depressing to think about how we probably spend more time talking trades than the actual GM.
Honestly, I'd rather just do CJ/Butler. You leave Aminu (blech!) as our only PF and Butler as our only SF. That's thin as fuck, and we're already quite thin.
 
Honestly, I'd rather just do CJ/Butler. You leave Aminu (blech!) as our only PF and Butler as our only SF. That's thin as fuck, and we're already quite thin.
What would be ideal is getting Gibson as well, but Thibs would probably combust if you separated him from his two longstanding vets.
 
When 28 teams stop being jealous about our backcourt, then we’ll talk, pal!!

Btw, this was almost verbatim a quote by Neil. It shows you a real fundamental problem. It’s not about having the best backcourt. Who gives a fuck? There are three other guys on the court. Nurkic is more important to this team than CJ, yet I never hear Olshey hype him up, and you got Terry criticizing him even when he plays well. Never heard either one say anything critical about lord McCollum, even though he’s cost us more games than Nurk has. Without Nurk we’d be in the lottery. Without CJ we might actually be better, or at least a lot less stagnant.

Sick of it.
 
Without CJ we might actually be better, or at least a lot less stagnant.
I agreed with you up to this point. I'm hoping you mean that "replacing CJ with someone who better balances the roster might actually make us better", rather than implying addition by subtraction. Simply deleting CJ makes us a whole hell of a lot worse.
 
I agreed with you up to this point. I'm hoping you mean that "replacing CJ with someone who better balances the roster might actually make us better", rather than implying addition by subtraction. Simply deleting CJ makes us a whole hell of a lot worse.

I don’t know what I meant. There’s a part of me that thinks addition by subtraction, but then there’s a part of me that doesn’t. I’d like to see how this team would play without him. I know the ball would move a lot more. CJ is a great scorer but when he’s off, he doesn’t really have a positive affect on the game.
 
I don’t know what I meant. There’s a part of me that thinks addition by subtraction, but then there’s a part of me that doesn’t. I’d like to see how this team would play without him. I know the ball would move a lot more. CJ is a great scorer but when he’s off, he doesn’t really have a positive affect on the game.
I'd much rather see a new system, rather than deleting our 2nd best player.
 
Sometimes when you loose a player like Cj you get better. Kind like Utah lost Hayward to Boston did that make Utah worse no actually they might been better team. When you have ball dominate player like Cj that don't mean you can't be better when you loose him. It just means your offensive changes where more players get involved in the offensive. Even your whole entire team gets better due more players are involved.
 

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