PA should throw ridiculous money at Thibodeau

[MickZagger]

This is just not true. The Bulls have two all stars (Boozer and Deng) and Noah will be one.

Boozer and Deng's AS berths had to do with Chicago's record more than anything else. Deng made the AS game as a 14 PER player. Boozer has a 20 PER.

Teams don't have the best record in the league and only have 1 player on the AS team. It just doesnt happen.

 

[B-Roy]

Boozer and Deng's AS berths had to do with Chicago's record more than anything else. Deng made the AS game as a 14 PER player. Boozer has a 20 PER.

Teams don't have the best record in the league and only have 1 player on the AS team. It just doesnt happen.

Boozer wasn't an AS in Chicago.

 

[MickZagger]

Boozer wasn't an AS in Chicago.

Thats right. So he's talking about guys who were an AS at one time, like that really matters...

 

[MARIS61]

People care more about wins than pace. Or atleast they should.

If that were true the Timbers would have more fans than the Blazers.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Move the ball on offense? Do you watch the Bulls? Rose is a 30+ usage PG two years running, with a 32 Last year. Give Tibs credit for having his best player involved as often as possible, unlike the whining here when Nate put the ball in Roy's hands.

Yeah I've watched them, and even though Rose has a high usage rate his assist rate of 40% pretty much validates my point. The Bulls move the ball (4th most team assists in the league kind of supports this too. http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/miscellaneous-per-game and 3rd highest assist ratio http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/assistRatio)

 

[illmatic99]

PA would have to drop like 10mil/yr on this guy. With the roster as is, and our future success so reliant on FA moves and draft this summer, I don't know if PA would drop that kind of cash with so much risk involved. Thibs is great, but with a shit roster, he'd be wasted.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Give Tibs credit for having his best player involved as often as possible, unlike the whining here when Nate put the ball in Roy's hands.

Link please. Nice strawman. I don't recall anyone here "whining" about the Roy ISO when we had a healthy Brondon Roy with a 24.0 PER. But stubbornly sticking to something that is no longer working when Roy misses 35 games and is a shadow of his former self, with a 13.9 PER is just plain dumb coaching. What's even dumber is trying to pretend Jamal Crawford is the equivalent of peak performance Brandon Roy, running the Roy ISO for Crawchuck and expecting it to work. The ISO only works when you have a superstar who can break down the defense and create his own high percentage looks. It doesn't work when you're 31-year old, PER = 15.0 Jamal Crawford and couldn't get to the rim if your life depended on it.

And what's even dumber still, is comparing Nate McMillan to Tom Thibodeau. The Bulls are 14-7 without Rose this season. That's a .667 winning perctage - without their PER = 24.8 MVP. That's the equivalent to winning 55 games in an 82 game season. Could the 2008-09 Blazers have won 55 games without PER = 24.0 Brandon Roy? Of course not. They won 54 games with him - and couldn't get out of the first round.

Thibodeau would be a GREAT hire. Too bad it's a pipe dream.

BNM

 

[MickZagger]

PA would have to drop like 10mil/yr on this guy. With the roster as is, and our future success so reliant on FA moves and draft this summer, I don't know if PA would drop that kind of cash with so much risk involved. Thibs is great, but with a shit roster, he'd be wasted.

I don't think we'll have a shit roster. Aldridge, Batum, Hickson, Matthews and two top 10 picks in this draft isn't bad at all. If we can pickup a solid upper echelon PG it could be a very attractive place. Thinks of what Thibs could do with all those defensive players.

 

[MickZagger]

Carlisle and Scotty Brooks contracts are up at the end of the year as well.

 

[Denny Crane]

Thats right. So he's talking about guys who were an AS at one time, like that really matters...

Boozer has a 20.3 PER and is playing near his TWO TIME all-star (in the tougher West Conference) level.

Deng puts up 15/6/3 and is considered an elite defensive player.

Noah was 2nd team all defense last year, has a 19.3 PER this season.

Heck, Taj Gibson has a 17.6 PER.

It just isn't fair to say the Bulls are Rose and a bunch of role players.

And a bit of trivia - since Michael Jordan, the Bulls have had just three players with a 20 PER. Rose, Boozer, and Elton Brand.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

PA would have to drop like 10mil/yr on this guy. With the roster as is, and our future success so reliant on FA moves and draft this summer, I don't know if PA would drop that kind of cash with so much risk involved. Thibs is great, but with a shit roster, he'd be wasted.

He DOES have a shit roster - when Rose is out. And he still wins with it. (I know Denny is playing up the all-star credentials of Boozer, Deng and Noah, but they only have those credentials now because of Thibodeau. The latter two weren't looking so great under Del Negro, were they?

This should be the place where it pays off to have a rich owner. Thibodeau and Donny Walsh, please Paul.

 

[Denny Crane]

He DOES have a shit roster - when Rose is out. And he still wins with it. (I know Denny is playing up the all-star credentials of Boozer, Deng and Noah, but they only have those credentials now because of Thibodeau. The latter two weren't looking so great under Del Negro, were they?

This should be the place where it pays off to have a rich owner. Thibodeau and Donny Walsh, please Paul.

Yes, Deng and Noah did great with Vinnie as coach. Along with those 2, Rose and Gordon were a top 3 back court pair.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Yes, Deng and Noah did great with Vinnie as coach. Along with those 2, Rose and Gordon were a top 3 back court pair.

But the Bulls were solidly mediocre. Around Hawks/Pacers/Bucks level. So there's a limit to how "great" they could have been. When Thibodeau came aboard they leaped into contender status.

I agree that the Blazers don't have the most enticing roster. Maybe if the Knicks came calling he'd prefer there. But if he wanted to get rich and basically own a town, the Blazers would be a solid choice. We could even let him choose the GM!

 

[Denny Crane]

But the Bulls were solidly mediocre. Around Hawks/Pacers/Bucks level. So there's a limit to how "great" they could have been. When Thibodeau came aboard they leaped into contender status.

I agree that the Blazers don't have the most enticing roster. Maybe if the Knicks came calling he'd prefer there. But if he wanted to get rich and basically own a town, the Blazers would be a solid choice. We could even let him choose the GM!

Rose took a big step up in his game. That last season with Vinnie, he was a sieve on defense and put up just an 18.6 PER. The team was in the process of dumping salaries to attempt to sign 2 MAX UFAs. They were carrying guys like Brad Miller, Jerome James, and Tim Thomas on the roster; only Miller had any somewhat positive effect playing in games. And they didn't have Boozer, Noah missed 18 games, Deng missed 12, Kirk Hinrich was their starting 2 guard (he sucks!). They let their leading scorer (Ben Gordon) walk to save cap space.

They also took defending champs Boston Celtics to 7 games in the 1st round of the playoffs in one of the greatest series ever the season before that.

Thibs took over the team with a very different roster. Added were Boozer, Asik, Brewer, Korver, and Watson. Boozer being the PF type the Bulls seriously needed (the fools traded LMA for Tyrus Thomas). Asik, Brewer, Korver, and Watson all adding serious depth to the team.

I'm not downplaying Thibs' coaching, as it has clearly been terrific. The Bulls are fools to even be messing with his extension. The guy's 54 years old, and should retire at a much older age as their coach.

 

[MickZagger]

Boozer has a 20.3 PER and is playing near his TWO TIME all-star (in the tougher West Conference) level.

Deng puts up 15/6/3 and is considered an elite defensive player.

Noah was 2nd team all defense last year, has a 19.3 PER this season.

Heck, Taj Gibson has a 17.6 PER.

It just isn't fair to say the Bulls are Rose and a bunch of role players.

And a bit of trivia - since Michael Jordan, the Bulls have had just three players with a 20 PER. Rose, Boozer, and Elton Brand.

Yet, none of those guys are on par with the second fiddle players of other good NBA teams. Durant has Westbrook and Harden. Lebron has Wade and Bosh. Kobe has Pau and Bynum. Paul has Griffin. Rose has Boozer and Deng, whoopdie doo.

Those guys aren't stars.

 

[Denny Crane]

Yet, none of those guys are on par with the second fiddle players of other good NBA teams. Durant has Westbrook and Harden. Lebron has Wade and Bosh. Kobe has Pau and Bynum. Paul has Griffin. Rose has Boozer and Deng, whoopdie doo.

Those guys aren't stars.

I think OKC is the favorite. The Bulls 2 thru 6 are better than Miami 3 thru 7.

Bosh's PER is 18.6, and Boozer's numbers (per 36) are better than all but a few PFs, including Bosh.

Deng is the #2 option on the team, with 13.9 FGA/game.

The Bulls have terrific depth, with Taj Gibson and Asik at the bigs positions, too.

The Bulls didn't beat Miami last year, and probably won't this year. However, they do have the best record in the league so they must have players that can win the most regular season games.

Whoopdie doo all you want. The record speaks for itself.

 

[MickZagger]

I think OKC is the favorite. The Bulls 2 thru 6 are better than Miami 3 thru 7.

Bosh's PER is 18.6, and Boozer's numbers (per 36) are better than all but a few PFs, including Bosh.

Deng is the #2 option on the team, with 13.9 FGA/game.

The Bulls have terrific depth, with Taj Gibson and Asik at the bigs positions, too.

The Bulls didn't beat Miami last year, and probably won't this year. However, they do have the best record in the league so they must have players that can win the most regular season games.

Whoopdie doo all you want. The record speaks for itself.

lol, do you even know what your arguing?

My premise was that Thibodeau is a great coach because he can win with not that much talent. They have the best record in the league despite their only true star missing most the season.

If you think that Boozer and Deng are on par with those other guys I mentioned, I don't know what to tell you.

The Bulls win because they share the ball and play great defense. Not because they have guys (outside of Rose) who can just take over a game.

 

[Denny Crane]

lol, do you even know what your arguing?

My premise was that Thibodeau is a great coach because he can win with not that much talent. They have the best record in the league despite their only true star missing most the season.

If you think that Boozer and Deng are on par with those other guys I mentioned, I don't know what to tell you.

The Bulls win because they share the ball and play great defense. Not because they have guys (outside of Rose) who can just take over a game.

Where has Thibs won without much talent? His only championship, I think, was with the Celtics as an assistant. And they had 3 future hall of famers.

No, the Bulls don't have another player besides Rose who can take over a game. That's what killed their chances last season and will this.

Without Boozer, the team was a .500 team. He's obviously made a pretty big difference. The attention he draws, the picks he sets, the rebounds he grabs (end opponents' possessions) have a huge effect on the team's record.

Thibs plays Deng 39 MPG, and that's down from earlier when he was playing 42+. He must suck. Too bad he's not as good as... Batum or Matthews, eh?

 

[MickZagger]

Thibs plays Deng 39 MPG, and that's down from earlier when he was playing 42+. He must suck. Too bad he's not as good as... Batum or Matthews, eh?

lol, lets resort to strawmans.

 

[PapaG]

lol, do you even know what your arguing?

My premise was that Thibodeau is a great coach because he can win with not that much talent. They have the best record in the league despite their only true star missing most the season.

If you think that Boozer and Deng are on par with those other guys I mentioned, I don't know what to tell you.

The Bulls win because they share the ball and play great defense. Not because they have guys (outside of Rose) who can just take over a game.

It's then pointed out to you that Thibideau coaches the NBA MVP (Rose), two Team USA players (Rose and Boozer), and another All-Star (Luol Deng), and a 2nd-team All-Defensive player (Noah).

You're acting like Boozer, Deng, and Noah are garbage, when they're clearly some of the better 2nd and 3rd options in the NBA. As also pointed out to you, Del Negro wasn't working with the same team, either.

 

[BBert]

Most people here would complain about how slow the tempo would under TT. I think he would be an amazing hire though!

I don't care about tempo/pace. I care about ball movement/player movement. Too many years listening to Steve Jones?

 

[RR7]

he has an option year after this season, so we basically have no chance at signing him, unless the Bulls inexplicably let him go.

 

[Boob-No-More]

he has an option year after this season, so we basically have no chance at signing him, unless the Bulls inexplicably let him go.

Anyone know Frank Vogel's contract status? I REALLY enjoyed the Bulls/Pacers series last season. Watching the two teams go head to head and both coaches make adjustments and counter-adjustments was great basketball. I also enjoyed the interviews with both coaches after the games. It was obvious these are two very sharp basketball minds. The Pacers don't have a superstar, but are 10 games over .500 and only 1/2 a game out of the 3rd seed in the East.

BNM

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

I want Pops. If PA is going to throw out huge bucks - then pursue the best coach in the league.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I want Pops. If PA is going to throw out huge bucks - then pursue the best coach in the league.

I doubt if he'd ever leave the Spurs, or they'd let him leave. They'd probably offer him part ownership of the team before they'd let him walk.

His lead assistant Budenholzer would be a good choice, though.

It cracks me up how many people didn't want to fire Nate because there weren't any better options available. Even ignoring the guys in this thread, who are still under contract, there are a ton of former coaches (Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, Jeff Van Gundy, etc.), assistant coaches, European coaches, WNBA coahes (Laimbeer), etc. available, and that's without even dipping down into the college ranks. The idea that NONE of these options are better than Nate is ridiculous. Heck Skippy the unpaid video intern has the team, minus Wallace and Camby, winning at the same rate Nate did.

BNM

 

[MickZagger]

It's then pointed out to you that Thibideau coaches the NBA MVP (Rose), two Team USA players (Rose and Boozer), and another All-Star (Luol Deng), and a 2nd-team All-Defensive player (Noah).

You're acting like Boozer, Deng, and Noah are garbage, when they're clearly some of the better 2nd and 3rd options in the NBA. As also pointed out to you, Del Negro wasn't working with the same team, either.

K, if were going to play that game you're acting like Thibodeau isn't a good coach. When clearly his team defense numbers and win/loss record indicate otherwise.

I'd take the supporting cast of all those teams that I mentioned and you'd be a fool if you thought otherwise.

 

[Denny Crane]

Rose has missed 11 straight games? The bulls are 6-4 the last 10.

 

[MickZagger]

Rose has missed 11 straight games? The bulls are 6-4 the last 10.

It says a lot about how good of a coach Thibs is. Defense and ball movement wins.

 

[Denny Crane]

It says a lot about how good of a coach Thibs is. Defense and ball movement wins.

Four guys with 17+ PER, two over 20, and the MVP and defense wins regular season games.

The bulls are 4th in ORtg and 3rd in DRtg. Balance!

They're also 1st in point differential, and that's what wins games.

 

[MickZagger]

Four guys with 17+ PER, two over 20, and the MVP and defense wins regular season games.

The bulls are 4th in ORtg and 3rd in DRtg. Balance!

They're also 1st in point differential, and that's what wins games.

Look, your arguing something that I'm not arguing. Boozer is far from being the go to scorer that he once was, Deng has always been a 3rd, or 4th option offensively.

Thib's is a great coach, you won't find a bigger fan. He does more with less talent than a lot of other coaches in the league.