Pac 12... 11... 10... 9... 8... 7...6...5...4... POOF!

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that's a total crock-of-shit. It's a whiny, woe is us we-did-nothing-wrong-beavers-were-innocent-victims-of-the-evil-ducks-none-of-it-is-our-fault holier than thou nonsense

I don't have the connections I used to have, but I do have a couple and I'll repeat some things that I have been told, most of which is easy to confirm. :

* the first big mistake that Pac-12 made was hiring Larry Scott and allowing him to have the conference form an independent Pac-12 network. Rob Mullens and Phil Knight were against it and Oregon wanted the PAC to form a broadcast/streaming partnership like the Big-10 has with FOX and the SEC has with. But most schools were enthusiastic about the crap Scott was selling and that includes OSU and WSU whose presidents were two of the biggest Scott cheerleaders along with ASU's president. If ESPN, for instance, had a big investment in the Pac-12 network and were a primary partner, they would have been much less likely to abandon the PAC when the next round of media GOR was being negotiated. That decision went a long way in killing the PAC and it was OSU on the stupid side of it

* in 2021, when Texas/Oklahoma announced they were leaving the Big-12 for the SEC, the Big-12 was a shipwreck. In the next month or so, several of the premier Big-12 schools called the PAC and negotiated with Kliavkoff about joining the Pac-12. Kliavkoff called for a meeting of Pac-12 presidents to vote on the issue of expansion with selected Big-12 teams. Oregon was in favor of expansion and argued for it. USC led the charge AGAINST expansion and OSU/WSU both voted with USC (IIRC the vote was 8-4 against). If the Pac-12 had done the expansion, there would have been nowhere else for ESPN and Fox to have gone for their media deals. This was another nail in the coffin for the Pac-12 and again, OSU was on the stupid side

* a few months after that, Kliavkoff was deep into negotiations with ESPN, FOX, and Amazon about a new media GOR. By all reports, the media companies were prepared to sign a deal that would have paid Pac-12 teams slightly more than what the Big-12 signed for in the vacuum of Pac-12 hubris. Again, Oregon was in favor of accepting the deal. And again, the majority said no, and that majority included OSU & WSU

* finally, as has been widely reported, the deal(s) Kliavkoff told the Pac-12 presidents, last Wednesday, he had lined up was a base streaming package with 23M/year per school in payout with subscription escalators; and that he had several different media interested in a linear TV package that would add 2-6M/year more. But when he presented the actual deal Friday morning, not only didn't it have any linear TV component; and not only did it have unreachable subscription thresholds, it included a clause from Apple that said the conference was responsible for all production costs which was estimated to deduct at least 5M/year from each school's payout. Meaning the actual deal was for 16-18M/year....all on a streaming platform

it was a classic bait & switch and that's when Oregon/Washington finally said enough

If you're going to single out any school for destroying the Pac-12, it was USC. As I linked above, when Kliavkoff came to the presidents advocating the Pac-12 expand with 4-6 Big-12 teams, it was USC's president who was most responsible for scuttling the deal. And just a few months later, USC bolted to the BIG. It would be incredibly naive to think this wasn't a strategy to neuter the PAC-12 and especially neuter Oregon in their ability to recruit southern California

and if you're wanting to point a finger at one of the Oregon schools, point it at OSU for it's constant 'we-believe-in-Larry-Scott's-pie-in-the-sky' wishful thinking

when this all started, I was feeling bad for OSU; hoping they might find a soft landing somewhere. But as Beaver fans, and even OSU officials, have tried to blame Oregon for this situation; as the beaver bile and venom has been spewed at the Ducks; as they try and act like innocent blameless victims in all this, I find I don't give a shit about the Beavers any more. Maybe they will somehow climb into the Big-12 on a reduced share; doubtful but possible I suppose. If not, enjoy the MWC

Interesting on OSU/WSU voting with USC on these expansion talks, I could see Stanford/Cal voting with them but makes no sense why the other 8 would be against this. Overall just mismanagement of the conference for well over a decade. It's astonishing how many poor decisions were made along the way that led to its demise.
 
They weren't reported good as gone, they were reported to be looking into the B12, but not leaving. Again, you have yet to provide anything saying they were gone while all the other reporting is going against you, but keep dying on this hill. O/W jumped at the B10 and then the AZ/Utah schools followed, it's not the other way around, no matter how much you might want it to be true.

who cares what the actual sequence was? it's irrelevant

when the Pac-9 schools actually got to see the specific parameters of the media deal from Apple, every school with a better option went with the better option. The NCAA doesn't have an anti-trust exemption so it's not a case of a rising-tide-lifting-all-boats. It's a case of sink-or-swim; and schools with large markets or good branding that draw TV eyeballs were issued life-jackets.
 
who gives a flying fuck what the actual sequence was? it's irrelevant

when the Pac-9 schools actually got to see the specific parameters of the media deal from Apple, every school with a better option went with the better option. The NCAA doesn't have an anti-trust exemption so it's not a case of a rising-tide-lifting-all-boats. It's a case of sink-or-swim; and schools with large markets or good branding that draw TV eyeballs were issued life-jackets.
Yea it might be semantics, but welcome to S2/the internet, where that's what most of us spend 90% of the time debating while acting as if we know what is going on behind closed doors and think whatever opinion we have is the gospel while not knowing if any of it is actually true. And if it doesn't matter to you than why comment on it? Yea we get it, OSU/WSU are holding the shit end of the stick but instead of just letting it be and not kicking a dog when it's down, many of the mutt/duck fans have instead chosen to punt the dead dog down the road and laugh all the way while doing it. Just admit that oregon/washington where the final straw that broke the camels back, enjoy the B10 and let us be.
 
From your link:

The figure presented was around half to 2/3 what the Big12 gets.

The 4 corner schools have been reported to be as good as gone for literally months. It was just a matter of waiting for the PAC to propose the media rights deal to the Presidents. UA's AD had said so, multiple times. The ONLY thing stopping that would have been getting as much money as the Big12.

The PAC had a meeting with the school presidents to propose the media rights deal. UO and UW no-showed at the meeting. That is what put the final nail in the coffin of the PAC. These are facts.
 
Was reading this story this morning about the PAC-12 passing on ESPN's deal. I guess they wanted more. Some of the info does come from clownzano so take it for what it is worth, but just sad to see them pass on the deal.

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-dollar-figure-finally-emerges-151338743.html?

Canzano's just putting that together a lot of other's reporting over the years (which is his M.O.). It has all been out there for a while

IIRC, Oregon was in favor of adding Texas/Oklahoma in 2011; Oregon voted to expand with Big-12 teams in 2021; Oregon voted in favor of accepting the ESPN deal in 2022. That's why it's irritating seeing beaver fans blame Oregon since OSU was on opposite sides in all those votes

by the way, Canzano's "sources" have consistently been OSU and WSU throughout this saga. That's why his reporting has always been so optimistic about the PAC staying together. And his reports of seeming PAC solidarity at various steps along the way are bullshit. There have been serious conflicts of perspective among members
 
Yea it might be semantics, but welcome to S2/the internet, where that's what most of us spend 90% of the time debating while acting as if we know what is going on behind closed doors and think whatever opinion we have is the gospel while not knowing if any of it is actually true. And if it doesn't matter to you than why comment on it? Yea we get it, OSU/WSU are holding the shit end of the stick but instead of just letting it be and not kicking a dog when it's down, many of the mutt/duck fans have instead chosen to punt the dead dog down the road and laugh all the way while doing it. Just admit that oregon/washington where the final straw that broke the camels back, enjoy the B10 and let us be.

why would I "admit" Oregon/Washington were the final straw when they weren't? The final straw was the shit sandwich media deal Kliavkoff presented to the Pac-12 on Wednesday. The 5M/year production cost clause wasn't reported about on Wednesday, but I was told schools knew, at least Oregon did, it was going to be in the final contract.

the narrative that 7 schools showed up in lock-step-solidarity on Friday is being pumped out by just a couple of sources. I don't believe it for a second
 
The PAC had a meeting with the school presidents to propose the media rights deal. UO and UW no-showed at the meeting. That is what put the final nail in the coffin of the PAC. These are facts.
Assuming UO and UW actually no-showed. I've seen conflicting reports on that...

AZ had already confirmed multiple times that it was leaving if there was a better financial offer. And I don't blame them. They made it VERY clear that they needed to be at least even with the Big12. Which is why the PAC didn't make their offer sooner. The news of the 4 corner schools negotiations with the Big12 (and Colorado pulling the trigger) is what finally forced the hand of the PAC to show their cards. Turns out the PAC was bluffing...

The Big12 was offering 50-100% more than the PAC's bait and switch offer on Thursday. Friday's meeting wasn't going to change that.
 
Yea it might be semantics, but welcome to S2/the internet, where that's what most of us spend 90% of the time debating while acting as if we know what is going on behind closed doors and think whatever opinion we have is the gospel while not knowing if any of it is actually true. And if it doesn't matter to you than why comment on it? Yea we get it, OSU/WSU are holding the shit end of the stick but instead of just letting it be and not kicking a dog when it's down, many of the mutt/duck fans have instead chosen to punt the dead dog down the road and laugh all the way while doing it. Just admit that oregon/washington where the final straw that broke the camels back, enjoy the B10 and let us be.
The offer was the final straw. AZ was as good as gone. They had said so publicly. Multiple times. Colorado was ALREADY gone. ASU was going to follow AZ (just like OSU and WSU would follow UO and UW if they could). Of course Utah was gone as well... why wouldn't they be?

I haven't seen anybody in here kicking the Beavers or WSU. Pretty much everyone wishes the PAC had done a better job and had an acceptable offer.
 
They weren't reported good as gone, they were reported to be looking into the B12, but not leaving. Again, you have yet to provide anything saying they were gone while all the other reporting is going against you, but keep dying on this hill. O/W jumped at the B10 and then the AZ/Utah schools followed, it's not the other way around, no matter how much you might want it to be true.
I don't care one way or the other. AZ literally said they would seek a better financial situation if it were available. The Big12 has been offering double what the PAC was offering. Pretty simple.

I've quoted it several times. You don't want to believe it, but it's been quoted, with links. Not sure why it's so important for you to ignore that, but it's a fact. AZ was gonzo. ASU was following, and Utah wasn't going to turn down double the money.
 
They weren't reported good as gone, they were reported to be looking into the B12, but not leaving. Again, you have yet to provide anything saying they were gone while all the other reporting is going against you, but keep dying on this hill. O/W jumped at the B10 and then the AZ/Utah schools followed, it's not the other way around, no matter how much you might want it to be true.

You can scroll back a few pages. I was posting tweets as they were happening in here. Arizona wanted out the night before.
 
You can scroll back a few pages. I was posting tweets as they were happening in here. Arizona wanted out the night before.
Wanted out but ASU wasn't leaving and Utah was very noncommittal until oregon and washington pushed their chips to the B10. I've lived on this reporting through the whole saga but whatever in the end it doesn't matter.
 
Wanted out but ASU wasn't leaving and Utah was very noncommittal until oregon and washington pushed their chips to the B10. I've lived on this reporting through the whole saga but whatever in the end it doesn't matter.

Yeah, but that was always my point. The order of teams leaving/wanting to leave was:

USC
UCLA
Colorado
Arizona
Oregon
Washington
Arizona State
Utah

It's hard to blame UO and UW when they were the 5th and 6th teams to decide it was time to bail.
 
Arguing over why the Pac 12 is folding, and who is responsible.......

ace-ventura-when-nature-calls.gif
 
I want to be 100% clear that I do not condone the Oregon fans making fun of "No Natty" guy with memes like this... Stay out of the mud Duck fans!

11901185.jpeg
 
Hello Friends. For those of you around the world, what follows may or may not be interesting. It is about the collapse of an American football college conference that had existed for more than 100 years. But I suppose it's also about the the state of the world in general, in some ways. I'm posting it here because I'm mad and disillusioned.


Post Mortem on the Pac
(An Angry Coug's Thoughts on the Demise of the Pac-12)
By Eric Johnson

What strange bedfellows they make, the University of Washington and their hated rivals, the University of Oregon, now forever linked in history as the shrewd duo that burned the Pac-12 Conference to the ground. Or, at the very least, threw the last match on its smoldering remains.
A picture emerges of ambiguous behavior, of knowing winks and crossed fingers behind the back, fronted by promises and pledges and vows of solidarity. Backchannel deals in the night, fueled by the kind of all-consuming ambition that isn't talked about in pep rallies and fight songs.

In December of 2022, once the shock wore off when USC and UCLA announced that they were leaving the Pac-12 and joining the Big 10, the question was obvious: what will Oregon and Washington do? That's because of power and money and national visibility, things those institutions have earned over time (in Oregon's case, thanks to a billion dollars from the founder of Nike).
For the longest time the silence from Montlake and Eugene was deafening. No announcements of solidarity. No "Circle the wagons" statements. At least not publicly.
Their silence was like chum into shark-infested waters.
And so we waited.
Make no mistake: the silence and the eventual abandonment of the Pac-12 was never about the well-being of student-athletes or academic considerations or the mission statements of institutions of higher learning. This was about something far more important. Money.
TV money.

Thursday, August 3. They had a deal. Ask WSU's President Kirk Schulz. Ask Dr. Michael Crow, ASU's longtime President. Or Oregon State's Athletic Director Scott Barnes. Ask any of them. They had a deal.
They'd agreed in principle to a media rights package with Apple. Pac-9 games (Colorado, by this time, had also abandoned the Pac) would be carried on a subscription streaming-based model, which is where sports programing is headed anyway, right?
Arizona State president Dr. Michael Crow described it this way: "We were offered a media contract by the Apple corporation that was really a technological, 23rd century Star Trek thing of really unbelievable capability that we were really very interested in."
Kirk Schulz, one of the longest tenured of any of the presidents involved, and who'd taken on a leadership role in negotiations, called it, "an innovative and forward-looking partnership proposal with Apple" that would "significantly grow the revenue coming into each school over the next several years."
It was not a garbage deal. It was forward thinking. It was an attempt to preserve the past by boldly venturing into the future. Various reports indicate it would have guaranteed schools between $23-$25-million per year early on, and that by year three, the deal would have eclipsed what Big-12 and ACC teams are getting.
Was it as much money as a school might get by forsaking everything and selling itself to the highest bidder? No, it was not.
But it wasn't garbage.

Schulz said, "We finished our board meeting on Thursday evening with a strong feeling of staying together, pursuing a new partnership with Apple, and moving forward with conference expansion."
One imagines a sense of unity in that last meeting Thursday night, a kind of collegial camaraderie. Pushed to the brink, they were pushing back. It must have felt good. ASU President Crow says, "We were the stalwarts fighting for the Pac-12, til the last inch."
Oregon State Athletic Director Scott Barnes put it this way: "(We were) literally hours away from a deal that everybody could embrace."
That night, the chair of the WSU Board of Regents, Lisa Schauer got an encouraging update.
"On Thursday," she says, "WSU President Kirk Schulz and Athletics Director Pat Chun presented to me an innovative media plan that would position the Pac-12 to lead the Power Five conferences into the future."

But there was another meeting. It was a 10:30pm closed door emergency meeting of the UW Board of Regents.
Maybe it was interrupted by a phone call from the Big-10. Or maybe that call came the next morning.

The rest of the league presidents and chancellors slept well. Why wouldn't they? They had banded together and saved the conference. Just a few signatures away...
John Canzano, a columnist and radio host in Portland who's been on the front edge of reporting on the Pac-12 for many years, says, "After they broke the meeting, as they went to bed they believed they were on the same page."

Canzano believes that it was early Friday morning that the Big-10 came calling. Again. It might have been as early as 5am.
They upped their offer. Washington and Oregon would get a 50% share of the Big-10 media rights deal with Fox/NBC/CBS for six years (about $35-million per year) and then when the NEXT deal came around, they would get full shares. Theoretically over $70-million per year.
What a grotesque Frankenstein monster we've created.

The Pac-12 (what was left of it) CEO group was scheduled to meet at 7am Friday morning to sign their deal with Apple.
Eight minutes before that meeting was scheduled to start, Kirk Schulz's phone vibrated. UW President Ana Mari Cauce had sent him a text message. She told him that the Huskies were leaving the Pac for the Big-10. Thanks for the memories.
Minutes later Oregon President John Karl Scholz informed the conference that his school was leaving for the Big-10.
Schulz said he was, "shocked."
"Stunned" was the word WSU Regents chair Lisa Schauer used.
Oregon State AD Scott Barnes said, "I'm furious."

They really fooled 'em all, didn't they? Snookered the whole lot. What a bunch of suckers.

Ana Mari Cauce got in front of a camera not long after. She pumped her fists when she talked about Washington's "very real excitement at joining the Big-10 Conference."
"This is a great move," she said.
She said something else, too. "In the end we had to do what was right."

And that was it.
Arizona and Arizona State were the next to fall, grudgingly. Together they'd pledged to stay in the Pac-12 unless the UW and Oregon bailed. They accepted an invitation to join the Big-12.
Utah left the same day.

Maybe I should grow up. Maybe I should have realized that the big guys always step on the little guys. That it's ALWAYS about money, stupid. Always. It's the way of the world.
See, my problem is I keep forgetting that the world works that way. Like a child, I keep believing in other things. Shame on me.

It's possible that none of it ever really meant anything. The rivalries, the history, the 108 years. The road trips and the tailgates and the trash talk. All that hugging and backslapping in the grandstands, the singing of fight songs and the little tears that formed in the corner of our eyes when we charged onto the field and jumped up and down like fools.
Maybe it's been a load of nonsense the whole time, all the way back to when my Dad drove me to Pullman to watch the great Jack Thompson slay giants. "The Cougs'll find a way, Pal, you just watch and see," he used to say.
Seems so silly now.
"It stinks," John Canzano says. "They did what was best for them. They did not do what was best for athletes or fans or tradition or rivalry. They did what was best for themselves."

UW President Cauce said something else the other day. She said with a straight face, "There is no question that the Apple Cup is a cherished tradition. And we want to continue our long history with the Cougars."
How laughable. How rich.

Budgets will tighten in Pullman and Corvallis, and maybe at Cal and Stanford too. Athletes will leave, jobs will be cut, traditions will die. Lives will be changed.

In the end, the most infuriating thing for the Cougar faithful is that when all was said and done, after 108 years of scrapping and fighting and believing, of slapping Husky hands away when they tried to pat us on the head, after all that, in the end, WSU's fate lay squarely in the hands of... the University of Washington.
But wait, that's not entirely true. Not entirely. Because the more we learn about what happened during the death throes of the Pac-12, the more we realize that it was Oregon pulling the wagon the whole time, and that the University of Washington was just along for the ride.
Says Canzano, "This was 100% Oregon driven." One principal player painted for him the metaphor of a bunch of cowboys at a table in a saloon, shaking hands with some of their guns drawn under the table. The biggest gun was green, not purple.
Canzano's sources tell him that Washington was never going to go it alone. Oregon might have, and it would've taken guts. But not the Huskies. For all of their Bow Down bravado and disdain for all things green and yellow, they were going to do whatever Oregon did. Just follow along.
Strange bedfellows indeed.

A long time ago, when baseball owners were wrestling with the concept of revenue sharing, George Steinbrenner famously said, "I own the NY Yankees, not the Seattle Mariners." In other words, to hell with the rest of them.
The University of Washington has certainly the right to say, "We're the U-Dub, not WSU." To hell with the rest of them.
But having the right is not the same as BEING right.
And what happened last week wasn't right. It never will be.
They'll make a lot of money. They'll be rich!
But do you know what I think? I think every time they cash one of those fat network checks there will be a little voice in the back of their heads, nagging at them, softly at first and then louder and louder, about something they'd like to forget.
They destroyed a thing that was beautiful.
 
Hello Friends. For those of you around the world, what follows may or may not be interesting. It is about the collapse of an American football college conference that had existed for more than 100 years. But I suppose it's also about the the state of the world in general, in some ways. I'm posting it here because I'm mad and disillusioned.


Post Mortem on the Pac
(An Angry Coug's Thoughts on the Demise of the Pac-12)
By Eric Johnson

What strange bedfellows they make, the University of Washington and their hated rivals, the University of Oregon, now forever linked in history as the shrewd duo that burned the Pac-12 Conference to the ground. Or, at the very least, threw the last match on its smoldering remains.
A picture emerges of ambiguous behavior, of knowing winks and crossed fingers behind the back, fronted by promises and pledges and vows of solidarity. Backchannel deals in the night, fueled by the kind of all-consuming ambition that isn't talked about in pep rallies and fight songs.

In December of 2022, once the shock wore off when USC and UCLA announced that they were leaving the Pac-12 and joining the Big 10, the question was obvious: what will Oregon and Washington do? That's because of power and money and national visibility, things those institutions have earned over time (in Oregon's case, thanks to a billion dollars from the founder of Nike).
For the longest time the silence from Montlake and Eugene was deafening. No announcements of solidarity. No "Circle the wagons" statements. At least not publicly.
Their silence was like chum into shark-infested waters.
And so we waited.
Make no mistake: the silence and the eventual abandonment of the Pac-12 was never about the well-being of student-athletes or academic considerations or the mission statements of institutions of higher learning. This was about something far more important. Money.
TV money.

Thursday, August 3. They had a deal. Ask WSU's President Kirk Schulz. Ask Dr. Michael Crow, ASU's longtime President. Or Oregon State's Athletic Director Scott Barnes. Ask any of them. They had a deal.
They'd agreed in principle to a media rights package with Apple. Pac-9 games (Colorado, by this time, had also abandoned the Pac) would be carried on a subscription streaming-based model, which is where sports programing is headed anyway, right?
Arizona State president Dr. Michael Crow described it this way: "We were offered a media contract by the Apple corporation that was really a technological, 23rd century Star Trek thing of really unbelievable capability that we were really very interested in."
Kirk Schulz, one of the longest tenured of any of the presidents involved, and who'd taken on a leadership role in negotiations, called it, "an innovative and forward-looking partnership proposal with Apple" that would "significantly grow the revenue coming into each school over the next several years."
It was not a garbage deal. It was forward thinking. It was an attempt to preserve the past by boldly venturing into the future. Various reports indicate it would have guaranteed schools between $23-$25-million per year early on, and that by year three, the deal would have eclipsed what Big-12 and ACC teams are getting.
Was it as much money as a school might get by forsaking everything and selling itself to the highest bidder? No, it was not.
But it wasn't garbage.

Schulz said, "We finished our board meeting on Thursday evening with a strong feeling of staying together, pursuing a new partnership with Apple, and moving forward with conference expansion."
One imagines a sense of unity in that last meeting Thursday night, a kind of collegial camaraderie. Pushed to the brink, they were pushing back. It must have felt good. ASU President Crow says, "We were the stalwarts fighting for the Pac-12, til the last inch."
Oregon State Athletic Director Scott Barnes put it this way: "(We were) literally hours away from a deal that everybody could embrace."
That night, the chair of the WSU Board of Regents, Lisa Schauer got an encouraging update.
"On Thursday," she says, "WSU President Kirk Schulz and Athletics Director Pat Chun presented to me an innovative media plan that would position the Pac-12 to lead the Power Five conferences into the future."

But there was another meeting. It was a 10:30pm closed door emergency meeting of the UW Board of Regents.
Maybe it was interrupted by a phone call from the Big-10. Or maybe that call came the next morning.

The rest of the league presidents and chancellors slept well. Why wouldn't they? They had banded together and saved the conference. Just a few signatures away...
John Canzano, a columnist and radio host in Portland who's been on the front edge of reporting on the Pac-12 for many years, says, "After they broke the meeting, as they went to bed they believed they were on the same page."

Canzano believes that it was early Friday morning that the Big-10 came calling. Again. It might have been as early as 5am.
They upped their offer. Washington and Oregon would get a 50% share of the Big-10 media rights deal with Fox/NBC/CBS for six years (about $35-million per year) and then when the NEXT deal came around, they would get full shares. Theoretically over $70-million per year.
What a grotesque Frankenstein monster we've created.

The Pac-12 (what was left of it) CEO group was scheduled to meet at 7am Friday morning to sign their deal with Apple.
Eight minutes before that meeting was scheduled to start, Kirk Schulz's phone vibrated. UW President Ana Mari Cauce had sent him a text message. She told him that the Huskies were leaving the Pac for the Big-10. Thanks for the memories.
Minutes later Oregon President John Karl Scholz informed the conference that his school was leaving for the Big-10.
Schulz said he was, "shocked."
"Stunned" was the word WSU Regents chair Lisa Schauer used.
Oregon State AD Scott Barnes said, "I'm furious."

They really fooled 'em all, didn't they? Snookered the whole lot. What a bunch of suckers.

Ana Mari Cauce got in front of a camera not long after. She pumped her fists when she talked about Washington's "very real excitement at joining the Big-10 Conference."
"This is a great move," she said.
She said something else, too. "In the end we had to do what was right."

And that was it.
Arizona and Arizona State were the next to fall, grudgingly. Together they'd pledged to stay in the Pac-12 unless the UW and Oregon bailed. They accepted an invitation to join the Big-12.
Utah left the same day.

Maybe I should grow up. Maybe I should have realized that the big guys always step on the little guys. That it's ALWAYS about money, stupid. Always. It's the way of the world.
See, my problem is I keep forgetting that the world works that way. Like a child, I keep believing in other things. Shame on me.

It's possible that none of it ever really meant anything. The rivalries, the history, the 108 years. The road trips and the tailgates and the trash talk. All that hugging and backslapping in the grandstands, the singing of fight songs and the little tears that formed in the corner of our eyes when we charged onto the field and jumped up and down like fools.
Maybe it's been a load of nonsense the whole time, all the way back to when my Dad drove me to Pullman to watch the great Jack Thompson slay giants. "The Cougs'll find a way, Pal, you just watch and see," he used to say.
Seems so silly now.
"It stinks," John Canzano says. "They did what was best for them. They did not do what was best for athletes or fans or tradition or rivalry. They did what was best for themselves."

UW President Cauce said something else the other day. She said with a straight face, "There is no question that the Apple Cup is a cherished tradition. And we want to continue our long history with the Cougars."
How laughable. How rich.

Budgets will tighten in Pullman and Corvallis, and maybe at Cal and Stanford too. Athletes will leave, jobs will be cut, traditions will die. Lives will be changed.

In the end, the most infuriating thing for the Cougar faithful is that when all was said and done, after 108 years of scrapping and fighting and believing, of slapping Husky hands away when they tried to pat us on the head, after all that, in the end, WSU's fate lay squarely in the hands of... the University of Washington.
But wait, that's not entirely true. Not entirely. Because the more we learn about what happened during the death throes of the Pac-12, the more we realize that it was Oregon pulling the wagon the whole time, and that the University of Washington was just along for the ride.
Says Canzano, "This was 100% Oregon driven." One principal player painted for him the metaphor of a bunch of cowboys at a table in a saloon, shaking hands with some of their guns drawn under the table. The biggest gun was green, not purple.
Canzano's sources tell him that Washington was never going to go it alone. Oregon might have, and it would've taken guts. But not the Huskies. For all of their Bow Down bravado and disdain for all things green and yellow, they were going to do whatever Oregon did. Just follow along.
Strange bedfellows indeed.

A long time ago, when baseball owners were wrestling with the concept of revenue sharing, George Steinbrenner famously said, "I own the NY Yankees, not the Seattle Mariners." In other words, to hell with the rest of them.
The University of Washington has certainly the right to say, "We're the U-Dub, not WSU." To hell with the rest of them.
But having the right is not the same as BEING right.
And what happened last week wasn't right. It never will be.
They'll make a lot of money. They'll be rich!
But do you know what I think? I think every time they cash one of those fat network checks there will be a little voice in the back of their heads, nagging at them, softly at first and then louder and louder, about something they'd like to forget.
They destroyed a thing that was beautiful.
I'm not at all surprised something like this would come from a Coug or Beaver.

There are bad feelings. I totally get it.
 
Hello Friends. For those of you around the world, what follows may or may not be interesting. It is about the collapse of an American football college conference that had existed for more than 100 years. But I suppose it's also about the the state of the world in general, in some ways. I'm posting it here because I'm mad and disillusioned.


Post Mortem on the Pac
(An Angry Coug's Thoughts on the Demise of the Pac-12)
By Eric Johnson

What strange bedfellows they make, the University of Washington and their hated rivals, the University of Oregon, now forever linked in history as the shrewd duo that burned the Pac-12 Conference to the ground. Or, at the very least, threw the last match on its smoldering remains.
A picture emerges of ambiguous behavior, of knowing winks and crossed fingers behind the back, fronted by promises and pledges and vows of solidarity. Backchannel deals in the night, fueled by the kind of all-consuming ambition that isn't talked about in pep rallies and fight songs.

In December of 2022, once the shock wore off when USC and UCLA announced that they were leaving the Pac-12 and joining the Big 10, the question was obvious: what will Oregon and Washington do? That's because of power and money and national visibility, things those institutions have earned over time (in Oregon's case, thanks to a billion dollars from the founder of Nike).
For the longest time the silence from Montlake and Eugene was deafening. No announcements of solidarity. No "Circle the wagons" statements. At least not publicly.
Their silence was like chum into shark-infested waters.
And so we waited.
Make no mistake: the silence and the eventual abandonment of the Pac-12 was never about the well-being of student-athletes or academic considerations or the mission statements of institutions of higher learning. This was about something far more important. Money.
TV money.

Thursday, August 3. They had a deal. Ask WSU's President Kirk Schulz. Ask Dr. Michael Crow, ASU's longtime President. Or Oregon State's Athletic Director Scott Barnes. Ask any of them. They had a deal.
They'd agreed in principle to a media rights package with Apple. Pac-9 games (Colorado, by this time, had also abandoned the Pac) would be carried on a subscription streaming-based model, which is where sports programing is headed anyway, right?
Arizona State president Dr. Michael Crow described it this way: "We were offered a media contract by the Apple corporation that was really a technological, 23rd century Star Trek thing of really unbelievable capability that we were really very interested in."
Kirk Schulz, one of the longest tenured of any of the presidents involved, and who'd taken on a leadership role in negotiations, called it, "an innovative and forward-looking partnership proposal with Apple" that would "significantly grow the revenue coming into each school over the next several years."
It was not a garbage deal. It was forward thinking. It was an attempt to preserve the past by boldly venturing into the future. Various reports indicate it would have guaranteed schools between $23-$25-million per year early on, and that by year three, the deal would have eclipsed what Big-12 and ACC teams are getting.
Was it as much money as a school might get by forsaking everything and selling itself to the highest bidder? No, it was not.
But it wasn't garbage.

Schulz said, "We finished our board meeting on Thursday evening with a strong feeling of staying together, pursuing a new partnership with Apple, and moving forward with conference expansion."
One imagines a sense of unity in that last meeting Thursday night, a kind of collegial camaraderie. Pushed to the brink, they were pushing back. It must have felt good. ASU President Crow says, "We were the stalwarts fighting for the Pac-12, til the last inch."
Oregon State Athletic Director Scott Barnes put it this way: "(We were) literally hours away from a deal that everybody could embrace."
That night, the chair of the WSU Board of Regents, Lisa Schauer got an encouraging update.
"On Thursday," she says, "WSU President Kirk Schulz and Athletics Director Pat Chun presented to me an innovative media plan that would position the Pac-12 to lead the Power Five conferences into the future."

But there was another meeting. It was a 10:30pm closed door emergency meeting of the UW Board of Regents.
Maybe it was interrupted by a phone call from the Big-10. Or maybe that call came the next morning.

The rest of the league presidents and chancellors slept well. Why wouldn't they? They had banded together and saved the conference. Just a few signatures away...
John Canzano, a columnist and radio host in Portland who's been on the front edge of reporting on the Pac-12 for many years, says, "After they broke the meeting, as they went to bed they believed they were on the same page."

Canzano believes that it was early Friday morning that the Big-10 came calling. Again. It might have been as early as 5am.
They upped their offer. Washington and Oregon would get a 50% share of the Big-10 media rights deal with Fox/NBC/CBS for six years (about $35-million per year) and then when the NEXT deal came around, they would get full shares. Theoretically over $70-million per year.
What a grotesque Frankenstein monster we've created.

The Pac-12 (what was left of it) CEO group was scheduled to meet at 7am Friday morning to sign their deal with Apple.
Eight minutes before that meeting was scheduled to start, Kirk Schulz's phone vibrated. UW President Ana Mari Cauce had sent him a text message. She told him that the Huskies were leaving the Pac for the Big-10. Thanks for the memories.
Minutes later Oregon President John Karl Scholz informed the conference that his school was leaving for the Big-10.
Schulz said he was, "shocked."
"Stunned" was the word WSU Regents chair Lisa Schauer used.
Oregon State AD Scott Barnes said, "I'm furious."

They really fooled 'em all, didn't they? Snookered the whole lot. What a bunch of suckers.

Ana Mari Cauce got in front of a camera not long after. She pumped her fists when she talked about Washington's "very real excitement at joining the Big-10 Conference."
"This is a great move," she said.
She said something else, too. "In the end we had to do what was right."

And that was it.
Arizona and Arizona State were the next to fall, grudgingly. Together they'd pledged to stay in the Pac-12 unless the UW and Oregon bailed. They accepted an invitation to join the Big-12.
Utah left the same day.

Maybe I should grow up. Maybe I should have realized that the big guys always step on the little guys. That it's ALWAYS about money, stupid. Always. It's the way of the world.
See, my problem is I keep forgetting that the world works that way. Like a child, I keep believing in other things. Shame on me.

It's possible that none of it ever really meant anything. The rivalries, the history, the 108 years. The road trips and the tailgates and the trash talk. All that hugging and backslapping in the grandstands, the singing of fight songs and the little tears that formed in the corner of our eyes when we charged onto the field and jumped up and down like fools.
Maybe it's been a load of nonsense the whole time, all the way back to when my Dad drove me to Pullman to watch the great Jack Thompson slay giants. "The Cougs'll find a way, Pal, you just watch and see," he used to say.
Seems so silly now.
"It stinks," John Canzano says. "They did what was best for them. They did not do what was best for athletes or fans or tradition or rivalry. They did what was best for themselves."

UW President Cauce said something else the other day. She said with a straight face, "There is no question that the Apple Cup is a cherished tradition. And we want to continue our long history with the Cougars."
How laughable. How rich.

Budgets will tighten in Pullman and Corvallis, and maybe at Cal and Stanford too. Athletes will leave, jobs will be cut, traditions will die. Lives will be changed.

In the end, the most infuriating thing for the Cougar faithful is that when all was said and done, after 108 years of scrapping and fighting and believing, of slapping Husky hands away when they tried to pat us on the head, after all that, in the end, WSU's fate lay squarely in the hands of... the University of Washington.
But wait, that's not entirely true. Not entirely. Because the more we learn about what happened during the death throes of the Pac-12, the more we realize that it was Oregon pulling the wagon the whole time, and that the University of Washington was just along for the ride.
Says Canzano, "This was 100% Oregon driven." One principal player painted for him the metaphor of a bunch of cowboys at a table in a saloon, shaking hands with some of their guns drawn under the table. The biggest gun was green, not purple.
Canzano's sources tell him that Washington was never going to go it alone. Oregon might have, and it would've taken guts. But not the Huskies. For all of their Bow Down bravado and disdain for all things green and yellow, they were going to do whatever Oregon did. Just follow along.
Strange bedfellows indeed.

A long time ago, when baseball owners were wrestling with the concept of revenue sharing, George Steinbrenner famously said, "I own the NY Yankees, not the Seattle Mariners." In other words, to hell with the rest of them.
The University of Washington has certainly the right to say, "We're the U-Dub, not WSU." To hell with the rest of them.
But having the right is not the same as BEING right.
And what happened last week wasn't right. It never will be.
They'll make a lot of money. They'll be rich!
But do you know what I think? I think every time they cash one of those fat network checks there will be a little voice in the back of their heads, nagging at them, softly at first and then louder and louder, about something they'd like to forget.
They destroyed a thing that was beautiful.

there's a giant load of bullshit there

I talked to someone who would know: Oregon, Washington, and Arizona were never on board with that deal. Any other PAC president who is saying they were is either lying or naive. The 3 schools would only have signed a GOR for a streaming only package if they had no other options. But they had options

and the bait & switch by Kliavkoff when he failed to inform the presidents that Apple was demanding that the conference pay all production costs would have killed the deal anyway Kliavkoff also said he had several potential linear TV partners. But Apple refused to allow that.

it was a totally shitty deal that arrived Friday morning

one other thing I was told, bot Oregon and Washington had told the other schools in the PAC for months they were trying to gain entry in the Big-10. None of them should have been surprised when it happened
 
Hello Friends. For those of you around the world, what follows may or may not be interesting. It is about the collapse of an American football college conference that had existed for more than 100 years. But I suppose it's also about the the state of the world in general, in some ways. I'm posting it here because I'm mad and disillusioned.


Post Mortem on the Pac
(An Angry Coug's Thoughts on the Demise of the Pac-12)
By Eric Johnson

What strange bedfellows they make, the University of Washington and their hated rivals, the University of Oregon, now forever linked in history as the shrewd duo that burned the Pac-12 Conference to the ground. Or, at the very least, threw the last match on its smoldering remains.
A picture emerges of ambiguous behavior, of knowing winks and crossed fingers behind the back, fronted by promises and pledges and vows of solidarity. Backchannel deals in the night, fueled by the kind of all-consuming ambition that isn't talked about in pep rallies and fight songs.

In December of 2022, once the shock wore off when USC and UCLA announced that they were leaving the Pac-12 and joining the Big 10, the question was obvious: what will Oregon and Washington do? That's because of power and money and national visibility, things those institutions have earned over time (in Oregon's case, thanks to a billion dollars from the founder of Nike).
For the longest time the silence from Montlake and Eugene was deafening. No announcements of solidarity. No "Circle the wagons" statements. At least not publicly.
Their silence was like chum into shark-infested waters.
And so we waited.
Make no mistake: the silence and the eventual abandonment of the Pac-12 was never about the well-being of student-athletes or academic considerations or the mission statements of institutions of higher learning. This was about something far more important. Money.
TV money.

Thursday, August 3. They had a deal. Ask WSU's President Kirk Schulz. Ask Dr. Michael Crow, ASU's longtime President. Or Oregon State's Athletic Director Scott Barnes. Ask any of them. They had a deal.
They'd agreed in principle to a media rights package with Apple. Pac-9 games (Colorado, by this time, had also abandoned the Pac) would be carried on a subscription streaming-based model, which is where sports programing is headed anyway, right?
Arizona State president Dr. Michael Crow described it this way: "We were offered a media contract by the Apple corporation that was really a technological, 23rd century Star Trek thing of really unbelievable capability that we were really very interested in."
Kirk Schulz, one of the longest tenured of any of the presidents involved, and who'd taken on a leadership role in negotiations, called it, "an innovative and forward-looking partnership proposal with Apple" that would "significantly grow the revenue coming into each school over the next several years."
It was not a garbage deal. It was forward thinking. It was an attempt to preserve the past by boldly venturing into the future. Various reports indicate it would have guaranteed schools between $23-$25-million per year early on, and that by year three, the deal would have eclipsed what Big-12 and ACC teams are getting.
Was it as much money as a school might get by forsaking everything and selling itself to the highest bidder? No, it was not.
But it wasn't garbage.

Schulz said, "We finished our board meeting on Thursday evening with a strong feeling of staying together, pursuing a new partnership with Apple, and moving forward with conference expansion."
One imagines a sense of unity in that last meeting Thursday night, a kind of collegial camaraderie. Pushed to the brink, they were pushing back. It must have felt good. ASU President Crow says, "We were the stalwarts fighting for the Pac-12, til the last inch."
Oregon State Athletic Director Scott Barnes put it this way: "(We were) literally hours away from a deal that everybody could embrace."
That night, the chair of the WSU Board of Regents, Lisa Schauer got an encouraging update.
"On Thursday," she says, "WSU President Kirk Schulz and Athletics Director Pat Chun presented to me an innovative media plan that would position the Pac-12 to lead the Power Five conferences into the future."

But there was another meeting. It was a 10:30pm closed door emergency meeting of the UW Board of Regents.
Maybe it was interrupted by a phone call from the Big-10. Or maybe that call came the next morning.

The rest of the league presidents and chancellors slept well. Why wouldn't they? They had banded together and saved the conference. Just a few signatures away...
John Canzano, a columnist and radio host in Portland who's been on the front edge of reporting on the Pac-12 for many years, says, "After they broke the meeting, as they went to bed they believed they were on the same page."

Canzano believes that it was early Friday morning that the Big-10 came calling. Again. It might have been as early as 5am.
They upped their offer. Washington and Oregon would get a 50% share of the Big-10 media rights deal with Fox/NBC/CBS for six years (about $35-million per year) and then when the NEXT deal came around, they would get full shares. Theoretically over $70-million per year.
What a grotesque Frankenstein monster we've created.

The Pac-12 (what was left of it) CEO group was scheduled to meet at 7am Friday morning to sign their deal with Apple.
Eight minutes before that meeting was scheduled to start, Kirk Schulz's phone vibrated. UW President Ana Mari Cauce had sent him a text message. She told him that the Huskies were leaving the Pac for the Big-10. Thanks for the memories.
Minutes later Oregon President John Karl Scholz informed the conference that his school was leaving for the Big-10.
Schulz said he was, "shocked."
"Stunned" was the word WSU Regents chair Lisa Schauer used.
Oregon State AD Scott Barnes said, "I'm furious."

They really fooled 'em all, didn't they? Snookered the whole lot. What a bunch of suckers.

Ana Mari Cauce got in front of a camera not long after. She pumped her fists when she talked about Washington's "very real excitement at joining the Big-10 Conference."
"This is a great move," she said.
She said something else, too. "In the end we had to do what was right."

And that was it.
Arizona and Arizona State were the next to fall, grudgingly. Together they'd pledged to stay in the Pac-12 unless the UW and Oregon bailed. They accepted an invitation to join the Big-12.
Utah left the same day.

Maybe I should grow up. Maybe I should have realized that the big guys always step on the little guys. That it's ALWAYS about money, stupid. Always. It's the way of the world.
See, my problem is I keep forgetting that the world works that way. Like a child, I keep believing in other things. Shame on me.

It's possible that none of it ever really meant anything. The rivalries, the history, the 108 years. The road trips and the tailgates and the trash talk. All that hugging and backslapping in the grandstands, the singing of fight songs and the little tears that formed in the corner of our eyes when we charged onto the field and jumped up and down like fools.
Maybe it's been a load of nonsense the whole time, all the way back to when my Dad drove me to Pullman to watch the great Jack Thompson slay giants. "The Cougs'll find a way, Pal, you just watch and see," he used to say.
Seems so silly now.
"It stinks," John Canzano says. "They did what was best for them. They did not do what was best for athletes or fans or tradition or rivalry. They did what was best for themselves."

UW President Cauce said something else the other day. She said with a straight face, "There is no question that the Apple Cup is a cherished tradition. And we want to continue our long history with the Cougars."
How laughable. How rich.

Budgets will tighten in Pullman and Corvallis, and maybe at Cal and Stanford too. Athletes will leave, jobs will be cut, traditions will die. Lives will be changed.

In the end, the most infuriating thing for the Cougar faithful is that when all was said and done, after 108 years of scrapping and fighting and believing, of slapping Husky hands away when they tried to pat us on the head, after all that, in the end, WSU's fate lay squarely in the hands of... the University of Washington.
But wait, that's not entirely true. Not entirely. Because the more we learn about what happened during the death throes of the Pac-12, the more we realize that it was Oregon pulling the wagon the whole time, and that the University of Washington was just along for the ride.
Says Canzano, "This was 100% Oregon driven." One principal player painted for him the metaphor of a bunch of cowboys at a table in a saloon, shaking hands with some of their guns drawn under the table. The biggest gun was green, not purple.
Canzano's sources tell him that Washington was never going to go it alone. Oregon might have, and it would've taken guts. But not the Huskies. For all of their Bow Down bravado and disdain for all things green and yellow, they were going to do whatever Oregon did. Just follow along.
Strange bedfellows indeed.

A long time ago, when baseball owners were wrestling with the concept of revenue sharing, George Steinbrenner famously said, "I own the NY Yankees, not the Seattle Mariners." In other words, to hell with the rest of them.
The University of Washington has certainly the right to say, "We're the U-Dub, not WSU." To hell with the rest of them.
But having the right is not the same as BEING right.
And what happened last week wasn't right. It never will be.
They'll make a lot of money. They'll be rich!
But do you know what I think? I think every time they cash one of those fat network checks there will be a little voice in the back of their heads, nagging at them, softly at first and then louder and louder, about something they'd like to forget.
They destroyed a thing that was beautiful.

But... but... but The Pac 12 and Canzano said we had an amazing deal with Apple!

The Pac-12 received $50 million in overpayments from a TV partner — Comcast, according to multiple reports — over several years. Now, the conference must settle its debts.

“As has already been widely reported, each Pac-12 university will see a significant decrease in revenue distribution,” Schulz said. “The decrease is a result of overpayments from one of the conference media partners that must be resolved.”

Schulz also noted the financial burden that has come with the Pac-12’s decision to move its headquarters out of San Francisco.

“Relocation of the Pac-12 headquarters out of San Francisco exceeded budget projections as well,” Schulz said.

...

Pac-12 expert Jon Wilner reported last month that Comcast is withholding $50 million in payments to the conference through the end of summer 2024 because of the overpayments. As a result, each Pac-12 school is expected to lose at least $4 million in revenue this year, per Wilner’s report. Conference CFO Brent Willman and Pac-12 Network president Mark Shuken were fired this year for their roles in the Comcast overpayment scandal.
 
I'm not at all surprised something like this would come from a Coug or Beaver.

There are bad feelings. I totally get it.
I’m surprised a Coug or Beav even has ACCESS to electricity or modern technology in order to even create such a masterpiece. #BAM
 
I heard that Espn offered the pac12 30 mill per last year, after usc and ucla left. Oregon and washington said no thanks. if that is true, that was the end right there.
 
I heard that Espn offered the pac12 30 mill per last year, after usc and ucla left. Oregon and washington said no thanks. if that is true, that was the end right there.

Half true...

ESPN offered $30m/team after USC and UCLA and the Pac12 (not just Oregon/Washington) said no thanks. One of the reasons being that the Pac12 presidents believed they were closer to the B1G in value than the ACC. They told the commish to tell ESPN we'll take $50m/team and ESPN responded "goodbye" and gave the offer to the Big12.
 
Half true...

ESPN offered $30m/team after USC and UCLA and the Pac12 (not just Oregon/Washington) said no thanks. One of the reasons being that the Pac12 presidents believed they were closer to the B1G in value than the ACC. They told the commish to tell ESPN we'll take $50m/team and ESPN responded "goodbye" and gave the offer to the Big12.
Yeah thats more accurate. Heard it on the radio the other day and i didn't paint a very good picture.
Still a monumental mistake to not take it.
 
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