Pelton: Trail Blazers Are NBA’s Most Underrated

[BlazerCaravan]

In 20 years, Portland will be a warm weather destination.

 

[Schilly]

CJ is superstar. Vonleh is potential superstar. We'll see about Meyers in 3-4 years.

Uhh Dude there's a point where optimism crosses over into delusion. You maye have crossed that point a while ago, but this is completely delusional at a new level. CJ a Superstar? Let's see if he's even the starter throughout the season. Meyers couls develop into a very solid starter... Maybe even a very good starter, but superstar, nah.

 

[Draco]

Warriors - Great season from Curry....every playoff opponent had major injuries.
Lakers - Both Kobe and Shaq forced trades to LA. That won't happen in Portland.
Pistons - Only title without a superstar in decades...certainly not the norm.
Celtics - Two HoF's added to a 3rd for one title. Nothing like the Drafted Celtics run in the 80's. Let's see NeO do that.
Mavs - Greatest Euro to every play led them to 1 title. Sounds more flukish than a regular occurrence.

Portland is not warm weather or with a favorable tax climate. Players are not going to 'force' their way to come here and it is just not a destination to play no matter how much we like the city or love our team. Fandom and reality do not often mix and that is perfectly understandable but titles are brought by Superstars and Portland doesn't have one yet. Dame is a 'Star' but Superstars are LeBron, Curry, Harden, and 1st Team All-NBA types. Dame isn't there (maybe yet, maybe ever) and I don't see another Superstar on this roster.

So you have to go get one....and that is much more likely for Portland to come via the Draft through players like Oden, Roy and Lillard and hope injuries don't derail their progress.

The Lakers won two titles after trading for Pau. I'm not sure your point, yes you could discount those teams if there was only one of them but when there's five of them? Do you think 5 of the last 7 franchises to win titles were flukes?

I'm not saying the draft is bad, but having a high pick isn't the be all end all key to building a title team. We already have one multi time all star. Yes we need other players; but there have been many avenues of acquiring those players. Other title teams have done it from internal development as we are trying with CJ and Meyers, other areas of the draft outside the top picks, free agency, and trades. Those paths more closely follow the blueprint of finals teams.

What finals teams in the last 25 years have won with multiple high lottery picks? Jordan with Pippen and Duncan with Robinson are the only ones I can think of. That makes it an exception not a rule.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Uhh Dude there's a point where optimism crosses over into delusion. You maye have crossed that point a while ago, but this is completely delusional at a new level. CJ a Superstar? Let's see if he's even the starter throughout the season. Meyers couls develop into a very solid starter... Maybe even a very good starter, but superstar, nah.

If Meyers Leonard didn't have his 3pt shot the dude would be considered a stiff.

 

[blue9]

Warriors and Mavs were fluke championships. Pistons was not a fluke, but also not the norm. That was a legit championship TEAM. I think DET and SAS are the only examples of teams winning AS teams, rather than a couple superstars surrounded by role players. You could argue that the Spurs don't even fit that description, but I think their "teaminess" exceeds their "supterstariness".

 

[Draco]

Warriors and Mavs were fluke championships. Pistons was not a fluke, but also not the norm. That was a legit championship TEAM. I think DET and SAS are the only examples of teams winning AS teams, rather than a couple superstars surrounded by role players. You could argue that the Spurs don't even fit that description, but I think their "teaminess" exceeds their "supterstariness".

So you think the Heat are the only superstar team to win a title in the last 13 years?

Mavs made the finals in 2006, was that a fluke too?

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

If Meyers Leonard didn't have his 3pt shot the dude would be considered a stiff.

If so and so wasn't good at something people would think he sucked?

If Mike Miller didn't have his 3pt shot he'd be....
If Craig Hodges didn't have his 3pt shot he'd be....
If Steve Kerr didn't have his 3pt shot he'd be...
If Ray Allen didn't have his 3pt shot he'd be...

In fact, IF Meyers didn't have his 3pt shot he might be better right now. Who knows? Maybe he would be dunking on people left and right like I would if I had his body.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

By the way, Ray Allen would be the only one of those players I listed that would have had an NBA career without his 3pt skill.

 

[BigGameDamian]

So you think the Heat are the only superstar team to win a title in the last 13 years?

Mavs made the finals in 2006, was that a fluke too?

The NBA is getting better at not being so predictable which is a good thing. I never want to see a superstar team like the heat had again.

 

[TBpup]

I can appreciate people picking out one single point without including the entirety of the post for context. No worries...lol. This is not just my opinion. I've had the chance to talk with front office people in Portland and in other NBA cities. Portland is just not a destination for FA's as history has proven. Trades can be made but many of the big trades were players 'forcing' a trade to a certain city or threatening FA'cy when they will leave for nothing.

Now, given the history of Portland not being able to draw top-tier FA's, and no Superstar players forcing their way to Portland, how else is Portland going to get a Superstar type player to get them to Title contention? Of course there are no guarantees and anyone who implies or infers that is daft. However, since a title or at least being a legit contender is the goal, getting a superstar is necessary. The Draft is the most likely option for the Blazers. Oden/Aldridge/Roy could have been that except for injuries. It sucks what happened but that is what is needed again.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

However, since a title or at least being a legit contender is the goal, getting a superstar is necessary. The Draft is the most likely option for the Blazers. Oden/Aldridge/Roy could have been that except for injuries. It sucks what happened but that is what is needed again.

Allow me to quote just a portion of your post and omitting the remainder of the context.

Nobody seems to dispute the notion that a superstar is needed in order for us to be a contender. What it seems to all boil down to is whether or not Dame is that superstar.

If he is, then we do not need to go get a superstar; we already have a superstar. Step 2, then, would be to surround that superstar with a complement of players who can support his strengths and offset his weaknesses. If, however, he is not that superstar, then nothing else we do matters until we have a superstar.

Clearly, Olshey believes that Dame is the type of player around whom a championship team can be built; otherwise, he would not have made such an effort this offseason to collect complementary players that are on "a similar career arc". That being the case, it stands to reason that the organization is more interested in the development of the players we currently have than the acquisition of a draftee we do not.

So, when you say that a top-5 draft pick is what is needed again (in order for the Blazers to become legit contenders), you are essentially saying that management's current plan is already doomed to failure. I, for one, am not ready to make that claim yet.

 

[Draco]

Good post PtldPlatypus.

TBPup I wonder what sort of action you want the Blazers to take? Or do you agree with Neil's moves so far? Most your posts speak in generalities, criticize and belittle fans rooting for wins. But you don't provide ideas of actions the Blazers should be taking. Maybe you've posted them elsewhere, if so let me know. I bet all of us Blazers fans would love to have the #1 pick if we could magically just get it. But how does the Blazer team get such a high pick while keeping an allstar talent such as Lillard? All the other teams with vegas over/under less than 30 don't have a top40 NBA rank player. Lillard is #15. Seems Neil is doing as good a job as he can. Either we have valuable young talent that helps us win or we get a top lottery pick. Maybe you think the Blazers should trade Lillard? What do the Blazers do with young players on our roster that have upside and could help them win? Guys like Vonleh, CJ, Meyers could become a secondary scorer on a title team or they could become scrubs; we don't know.

 

[Tunchi]

The Lakers won two titles after trading for Pau. I'm not sure your point, yes you could discount those teams if there was only one of them but when there's five of them? Do you think 5 of the last 7 franchises to win titles were flukes?

I'm not saying the draft is bad, but having a high pick isn't the be all end all key to building a title team. We already have one multi time all star. Yes we need other players; but there have been many avenues of acquiring those players. Other title teams have done it from internal development as we are trying with CJ and Meyers, other areas of the draft outside the top picks, free agency, and trades. Those paths more closely follow the blueprint of finals teams.

What finals teams in the last 25 years have won with multiple high lottery picks? Jordan with Pippen and Duncan with Robinson are the only ones I can think of. That makes it an exception not a rule.

Well you forgot one little problem. We cant acquire high profile FAs, we cant even entice Greg Monroe. The last big time FA I remember we signed was Brain Grant when he chose us on his own. We wont get players that are worth a damn in free agency (Im talking game changers not simple role players), meaning we have to draft them.

My point though is cities like LA are destination that FAs go to, so it doesn't matter if they draft them or not, they can get top 5 picks to go there. So to be a contender we all know its clear you need top 5 draft pick talent. So you got to ask yourself how do teams like Portland get that talent?

Unfortunately for cities like us we have to do it the old fashion way not FA's (bc they wont come here) but thru the draft. So in that case we might as well stop with this draft is overrated, for cities like us its the only way..

 

[blue9]

So you think the Heat are the only superstar team to win a title in the last 13 years?

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion?
Heat, Lakers, Celtics - all driven by superstars.
Spurs, Pistons - team success
Warriors, Mavs - fluke

 

[BBert]

Is this the thread where some of my respected peers are suggesting because we have a handful of former mid-late lottery picks on the team, getting a top three lottery pick won't help us? (I'm too lazy/busy to go back and check.)

Whether this is or isn't that thread, I'd just like to take this opportunity to disagree.

Thank you,

BBert.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Well you forgot one little problem. We cant acquire high profile FAs, we cant even entice Greg Monroe. The last big time FA I remember we signed was Brain Grant when he chose us on his own. We wont get players that are worth a damn in free agency (Im talking game changers not simple role players), meaning we have to draft them.

My point though is cities like LA are destination that FAs go to, so it doesn't matter if they draft them or not, they can get top 5 picks to go there. So to be a contender we all know its clear you need top 5 draft pick talent. So you got to ask yourself how do teams like Portland get that talent?

Unfortunately for cities like us we have to do it the old fashion way not FA's (bc they wont come here) but thru the draft. So in that case we might as well stop with this draft is overrated, for cities like us its the only way..

But we HAVE had stacked teams in the past that were comprised of players we didn't draft. The team Brian Grant came to had what... 8 allstars on the team? How many did we draft?

Trades can help too...

The NBA and the world has gotten smaller. 20 years ago there were 3-5 cities that had the pull, but with the internet and personal marketing, you don't need a large market to make a large splash. One only needs not look any further than Dame to see that. The big city destinations are a relative thing of the past I think. Monroe ALSO proved that. The lakers are shell of themselves and once Kobe is gone, they have nothing to lure but Hollywood. But in the last 20 years Hollywood has declined.
I seriously don't think "Destination Cities" are near as relevant as it used to be.

 

[B-Roy]

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion?
Heat, Lakers, Celtics - all driven by superstars.
Spurs, Pistons - team success
Warriors, Mavs - fluke

Curry and Dirk were top 5 players in the respective seasons where there teams won championships.

 

[Draco]

New York and Los Angeles have had max free agent cap room for 5 summers and hauled in Robin Lopez, Lou Williams, and Amare Stoudamire.

Meanwhile San Antonio, Cleveland, and Milwaukee have signed the top free agents.

 

[Orion Bailey]

New York and Los Angeles have had max free agent cap room for 5 summers and hauled in Robin Lopez, Lou Williams, and Amare Stoudamire.

Meanwhile San Antonio, Cleveland, and Milwaukee have signed the top free agents.

AHAHA and this "The draft is the only thing for us, because its the big markets that get all the FA's and blockbuster trades..." Keeps getting debunked...
I love it.

 

[blue9]

The NBA and the world has gotten smaller. 20 years ago there were 3-5 cities that had the pull, but with the internet and personal marketing, you don't need a large market to make a large splash. One only needs not look any further than Dame to see that. The big city destinations are a relative thing of the past I think. Monroe ALSO proved that. The lakers are shell of themselves and once Kobe is gone, they have nothing to lure but Hollywood. But in the last 20 years Hollywood has declined.
I seriously don't think "Destination Cities" are near as relevant as it used to be.

Again, I disagree. I think the big cities have MORE pull than the use to. Back in the 80s (and even 90s) it was all about teams, and not cities. POR, PHX, UTH, IND, SEA, SAC, DET - all non-destination cities that put together great teams with superstar players. It's only in the past 15-20 years that where a team is located has had a big impact on where players want to play. We saw Melo & Amare choose NYK, not because the Knicks were a good team but because they were in NYC!
And once Kobe retires players will want to play for the Lakers again (if management can get their act together).

 

[blue9]

AHAHA and this "The draft is the only thing for us, because its the big markets that get all the FA's and blockbuster trades..." Keeps getting debunked...
I love it.

Not at all - those teams get the BIG free agents because they're contenders. (Not MIL, but then they didn't really get a BIG free agent.) And that's been part of the entire argument all along. You're trying to piece out the individual parts that make up the whole, and use them (erroneously) to disprove the other parts of the argument.

 

[Draco]

Curry and Dirk were top 5 players in the respective seasons where there teams won championships.

I'd be happy if we had a "fluke" player that leads us to two finals and wins a title.

I don't see how any recent NBA champ can be a "fluke" when they have to win four 7 game playoff series. On top of it the warriors won 67 games and have one of the best point differentials in NBA history.

 

[Draco]

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion?
Heat, Lakers, Celtics - all driven by superstars.
Spurs, Pistons - team success
Warriors, Mavs - fluke

Celtics highest draft pick was #10. Lakers was #13 Kobe.

So out of the last 13 years there's one champion built around a star they drafted high in the lottery; Wade at pick #5. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[blue9]

Celtics highest draft pick was #10. Lakers was #13 Kobe.

So out of the last 13 years there's one champion built around a star that won with a star they drafted; Wade at pick #5. Thanks for proving my point.

Your point hasn't been proven, as it's still far more likely that we get a superstar through the draft than through free agency.
Tis better to have a superstar and lose a superstar than to never have a superstar at all.
I don't really care WHERE our superstar(s) come from, I just know we will probably need a couple in order to compete - and as we're currently constructed the best way to obtain a superstar is:

#1 - Draft
#2 - Trade
#3 - Develop
#4 - Free Agency

 

[Draco]

Your point hasn't been proven, as it's still far more likely that we get a superstar through the draft than through free agency.
Tis better to have a superstar and lose a superstar than to never have a superstar at all.
I don't really care WHERE our superstar(s) come from, I just know we will probably need a couple in order to compete - and as we're currently constructed the best way to obtain a superstar is:

#1 - Draft
#2 - Trade
#3 - Develop
#4 - Free Agency

 

[BigGameDamian]

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion?
Heat, Lakers, Celtics - all driven by superstars.
Spurs, Pistons - team success
Warriors, Mavs - fluke

Every team needs at least one superstar player to win a championship with a few really good players surrounding him.

 

[Schilly]

Celtics highest draft pick was #10. Lakers was #13 Kobe.

So out of the last 13 years there's one champion built around a star they drafted high in the lottery; Wade at pick #5. Thanks for proving my point.

Uhhh... Tim Duncan #1 overall pick by the Spurs.

 

[Schilly]

BTW lets have a little bit of fun here. Lets say Portland does in fact have sneaky success this year and plays to a level of 41 wins. Given the depth of Talent and age of talent.... and Approximately 30 million in cap space or so.... Does this team look like an up and comer? How appealing would this team potentially be to a guy like Kevin Durant?

Say for example CJ and Meyers actually do have breakout years and the rest show positive progress... From a talent perspective how good might Durant perceive the Blazers to be if he were on the team?

 

[Tunchi]

BTW lets have a little bit of fun here. Lets say Portland does in fact have sneaky success this year and plays to a level of 41 wins. Given the depth of Talent and age of talent.... and Approximately 30 million in cap space or so.... Does this team look like an up and comer? How appealing would this team potentially be to a guy like Kevin Durant?

Say for example CJ and Meyers actually do have breakout years and the rest show positive progress... From a talent perspective how good might Durant perceive the Blazers to be if he were on the team?

Well with Durant he'll never even answer our phone calls. We told him he isn't good enough to be the number 1 pick. I'm sure he still has that in his mind..

 

[BBert]

OTOH: The opportunity to NOT share a team with Russell Westbrook has got to be damn tempting.