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RR7 said:
Agreed, I'd love to land him similarly, keep Dame and Nurk, and tell me what you want for him. I don't think CJ/Collins/Simons is too much to give. I see no reason he can't play the Draymond Green role for us at the 3 or the 4. Big, great defending playmaker. His passing and playmaking combined with Dame and Nurk? Sign me up.
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If he was a decent shooter they'd be in contention now. This league is all about shooters anymore.
 
GhostOfPGA said:
Simmons would absolutely be terrific with Lillard. Teams won’t be able to trap us with Simmons size, Lillard can actually move off ball effectively with a legitimate player who will pass the ball and do it well. Simmons is a disruptive defender, his size important, idc if he’s not a shooter, we have plenty of those now. We’ve been clamoring for a player who can truly play PG other than Lillard for years. Simmons is only going to get better too.
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Teams wouldn't be able to trap Lillard/Simmons pick n rolls, but that's a PnR duo that's far less effective than Dame+Nurk, AND theres many other ways to beat a blitz thatd compliment Dame+Nurkic better.

Simmons is getting close to his ceiling IMO. People base too much off age and not off of what a players ceiling is. Wiggins was going to keep getting better because of his "age", and he didnt.

Having two non-shooters next to Dame makes no sense. You're making it harder for Dame to do what he does best when Simmons is out there.

Also, I disagree with the notion that "we have enough shooting".
 
Ben Simmons is one if the most overrated players in the league. Not good enough to be a #1 but his game doesnt fit that of a #2 (which would be the only reason Philly would trade him in the first place).
 
Have we reached the point yet where Ingram is better than Simmons? (Both have been mentioned in this thread, so it seems tangentially relevant) I remember being convinced that Ingram should absolutely have been the pick over Simmons that year based solely on his shooting ability. It's feeling like he's finally justifying that position.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Have we reached the point yet where Ingram is better than Simmons? (Both have been mentioned in this thread, so it seems tangentially relevant) I remember being convinced that Ingram should absolutely have been the pick over Simmons that year based solely on his shooting ability. It's feeling like he's finally justifying that position.
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I think Simmons is the rarer talent but Ingram is the better player in today's game. Maybe in a previous era, Simmons could have been something between Magic Johnson and Grant Hill (though with better defense than either). But in this era, his unusual combination of skills are just too hard to leverage without shooting ability. Ingram isn't particularly rare or unusual, but he's very good in a way that will fit into any team offense.

It's a shame--if Simmons could shoot, he could have been his own sort of unicorn and maybe someone who could have challenged Antetokounmpo as the best player in the NBA or, at least, been a top-five player in the league.
 
BonesJones said:
Ben Simmons is one if the most overrated players in the league. Not good enough to be a #1 but his game doesnt fit that of a #2 (which would be the only reason Philly would trade him in the first place).
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I will say this for Simmons. The Sixers sucked and got Embiid and were better, yes, but still sucked. Then Simmons joined the team and they were an instant playoff team that reached the second round. They won the last 16 games of that season with Embiid not playing for most of them (eye injury). Also- last year, there was a game against the Brooklyn Nets that Embiid missed and Simmons went OFF.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201904180BRK.html

If you surround Simmons with shooters like Ilyasova/Belinelli or Redick/Harris, you will win a lot of games, even without Embiid. Maybe especially without Embiid.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
I will say this for Simmons. The Sixers sucked and got Embiid and were better, yes, but still sucked. Then Simmons joined the team and they were an instant playoff team that reached the second round. They won the last 16 games of that season with Embiid not playing for most of them (eye injury). Also- last year, there was a game against the Brooklyn Nets that Embiid missed and Simmons went OFF.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201904180BRK.html

If you surround Simmons with shooters like Ilyasova/Belinelli or Redick/Harris, you will win a lot of games, even without Embiid. Maybe especially without Embiid.
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Which is probably why the Sixers will not trade Simmons. Unless you're offering Luka Doncic, you can probably not bother asking.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Have we reached the point yet where Ingram is better than Simmons? (Both have been mentioned in this thread, so it seems tangentially relevant) I remember being convinced that Ingram should absolutely have been the pick over Simmons that year based solely on his shooting ability. It's feeling like he's finally justifying that position.
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It's true he is of course a better shooter than Ben, but until this season that he completely transformed it shooting was by far the biggest hole in Ingram's game.
 
Got it! Trade Simmons for D'Angelo Russell and the T-Wolves' pick in this year's draft. The Sixers' team defense can survive Russells' inadequacies (unlike Minny). Meanwhile KAT-Simmons and Russell-Embiid are pairings that complement each other much better than their current pairings. Also Russell is a very good clutch player, something that's wasted in Minny, and has the right kind of attitude to survive the Philly fans.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Got it! Trade Simmons for D'Angelo Russell and the T-Wolves' pick in this year's draft. The Sixers' team defense can survive Russells' inadequacies (unlike Minny). Meanwhile KAT-Simmons and Russell-Embiid are pairings that complement each other much better than their current pairings. Also Russell is a very good clutch player, something that's wasted in Minny, and has the right kind of attitude to survive the Philly fans.
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that would be awkward after Ben put him KAT in a chokehold hahaha
 
Tobias Harris and Al Horford providing absolutely nothing. Embiid is not much of a leader.

Watching these rudderlesss teams completely tank at the sight of adversity just makes it clear how lucky we are to have the kind of culture and leadership we do. I would love to steal either Harris or Horford but their contracts are toxic.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
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There is an argument for them absolutely having to go for it with Embiid's injury history and volatile body. It's similar to NO and Zion now. They have a finite number of years before you know their bodies will break down. But giving Harris and Horford close to 300 mil combined might not have been the best option for going all in.
 
Based on a suggestion on Reddit - Brooklyn could offer this plus a couple of picks and they'd have a real boom-or-bust superteam:

upload_2020-8-23_21-20-49.png
 
That would be a pretty interesting Philly team, too. LeVert looked amazing against us, but the Nets keep Joe Harris. Dinwiddie has got to be a significant improvement on Shake Milton, too.
 
If we get Horford out of their hands by giving them CJ we could get some more pieces like Josh Richardson, Milton and 2 1st rounders. Elton Brand is all for win now so i don't think he cares about picks anymore. He has to save his job by winning. Then we use those 1st picks to get some rotation guy or trade up for draft.

upload_2020-8-24_9-51-19.png

Then our starting lineup would be

Lillard
Richardson
Hood
Collins
Nurkic

Milton
Trent
Little
Horford

good mix of 3&D off the bench

Of course Horford's contract is terrible, probably worse in the league but he is not that trash as they made him seem this year. If we use him like 18 mins backup C and 7-8 next to Nurk he would be fine. Rest of lineup would be shooters like Dame, Trent and Hood when he plays as PF. And both him and Nurk can shoot the 3 I don't think spacing would be an issue like playing next to Simmons.

Will this team win a title, probably not. But the way we are now we have no chance either.

Not saying he is better than CJ exactly but also advanced stats are ok for Horford
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We need to take advantage of the philly Situation, they are a mess and their payroll will be ridiculous high with the Simmons extension. Who knows how corona gonna affect the Cap
 
Labinot41 said:
We need to take advantage of the philly Situation, they are a mess and their payroll will be ridiculous high with the Simmons extension. Who knows how corona gonna affect the Cap
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CJ McCollum seems so perfect for them. I think it's the team we can get the most out of.
 
GDiama said:
If we get Horford out of their hands by giving them CJ we could get some more pieces like Josh Richardson, Milton and 2 1st rounders. Elton Brand is all for win now so i don't think he cares about picks anymore. He has to save his job by winning. Then we use those 1st picks to get some rotation guy or trade up for draft.
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Hm. I like Josh Richardson a lot, and if we were getting the Heat version, I'd be very tempted. Great defender. But even then, taking on Horford's contract is just too much. Maybe it would be different if we had nobody at C, but there's no way you can play Nurk and Horford together. And Horford's contract, let us reiterate, is HORRIBLE.

(I dunno about Shake Milton, though. I don't think he'd be playing if they weren't desperate.)

Agreed that CJ seems to be an ideal player to pair with Simmons, and that the Sixers would jump all over this in a second. Which should give us pause.
 
So another example of how tanking for several years didn't get you any further along than most other teams? Not saying tanking never works, just that it is far from a smart solution for most franchises.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
But even then, taking on Horford's contract is just too much. Maybe it would be different if we had nobody at C, but there's no way you can play Nurk and Horford together. And Horford's contract, let us reiterate, is HORRIBLE.
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Agreed on the horrible Horford contract, but why wouldn't he fit with Nurkic? I get neither the most fleet of foot on the perimeter as defenders, but the offensive spacing and rebounding would be great. Also, without CJ our backcourt defense may be a little less of a sieve.
 
If Philly and New Orleans really wanted to mix it up and go for it I'd love for something like this:

Por: CJ out; Jrue Holiday in
Philly: Simmons and Horford out; Lonzo and CJ in
NO: Jrue and Lonzo out; Simmons and Horford in

I also think Kevin Love would fit pretty much perfectly with Embiid. Cleveland wouldn't swap Love for Horford without some sweeteners though of course.
 
Seems to me that Philly and the Lakers were built on the same philosophy. Two really good players with a bunch of scrubs.
 
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