Plausible CJ trades that don't involve the Sixers?

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wizenheimer said:
the NBA average TS% has been running in the 55-58% range the last few seasons. CJ's career mark is .552. He was better than that last season and in 2016-17, but worse than the average in 5 of his 7 seasons as a starter, including this season

so no, he's not "very" efficient at all. He's average efficient, at best. In his 7 seasons, he's ranked 7th, 4th, 8th, 10th (Aminu was better), 10th, 5th, & 9th on the Blazers in TS%. That's an average ranking of 7.6th. And that's for a guy who shoots almost as much as Dame. Making it worse is that CJ is usually elite in spot-up shots. Last season he was in the 98th percentile and spot-up was 15% of his offense. And last season he shot 70% on catch-&-shoot opportunities, and that was 18% of his offense...

so if you delete those two play types, his TS% would be well below average on his supposed strength...getting buckets on his own. He's always been significantly overrated just because he can create his own shots. It doesn't matter how clever a player is at creating shots if he has a mediocre conversion rate, and that's CJ. A lot of players can create their own shots. Dame has always had a much lower assisted FG rate than CJ has, and his career TS% of .583 compared to CJ's .552. Making that even more dramatic is that we know for the entirety of his career as a starting SG CJ has been drafting off of the defensive attention Dame gets. CJ always draws the weaker perimeter defenders because of Dame, yet he can't do any better than average in terms of efficiency

so again, no...Portland isn't getting some good scoring efficiency from their starting SG. What they are getting is volume shooting and usage with a large helping of ball-hog which makes CJ's raw scoring numbers look better than they really are. And that's attached to poor defense on the other end
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CJ takes about the same amount of shots as Dame so far this year but he's shooting better 2&3 FG%. Combined FGA's they are comparable to some of the other guard tandems at the high end of FGA's.
 
Dame has been worse than CJ; more is expected of Dame.
 
Hoopguru said:
CJ takes about the same amount of shots as Dame so far this year but he's shooting better 2&3 FG%. Combined FGA's they are comparable to some of the other guard tandems at the high end of FGA's.
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c'mon now. The Dame/CJ pairing isn't just the 20 games of this season under new foul rules and a new ball. There were 450 games they played as starters before this season, and that's what I was talking about
 
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Cugel said:
Dame has been worse than CJ; more is expected of Dame.
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Dame has been worse?

PER: CJ 16.9....Dame 18.9
TS%: CJ .529....Dame .529
assisted FG rate: CJ 43.0%....Dame 30.3%
Assist Rate: CJ 19.8%....Dame 34.7%
Turnover Rate: CJ 9.2%....Dame 11.2%
assist/turnover rate: CJ 2.15....Dame 3.10
winshares/48: CJ .078....Dame .112
+/- Per 100 Poss: CJ -3.9....Dame +6.4

I agree more is expected of Dame; he's established his level of play (as has CJ) and he's paid more money. But I don't agree Dame has been worse than CJ. He certainly was earlier in the season, but he's caught up and passed CJ in most areas. Dame is still a long ways below his norms for sure, but there have been some signs he's getting back some of his rhythm. CJ really isn't too far at all below his norms. He's actually at them if you allow for a little variance

I guess if your grading each player on a curve of themselves, Dame has been further below his curve than CJ.
 
Minstrel said:
Nah, I don't think you'd trade away KAT if all you were getting was CJ and Nurkic.

But it's no crime to want Towns on the Blazers. So you just keep mocking up trades to get him here!
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i kept it up until the Blazers finally brought in Melo! Quite the long Super Blockbuster effort on that one! LOL
 
If the Nuggs haven't given up on the season but want to replace MPJr's scoring...
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wizenheimer said:
c'mon now. The Dame/CJ pairing isn't just the 20 games of this season under new foul rules and a new ball. There were 450 games they played as starters before this season, and that's what I was talking about
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Not disputing that and I know CJ dribbles too much. If you look at teams with that have had tandem scoring guards for a number of years Dame and CJ are about average for shots taken. Part of the problem with Portland imo, is if they had more conistant scoring form the front line CJ wouldn't go iso as much? maybe. I was hoping we would get more consistent scoring from Nance & RoCo. Dame doesn't appear to be as effective off the ball. Honestly until that starting back court changes we will be seeing the same stuff with Dame & CJ. Im hoping Chauncey decides to bring CJ off the bench and start Ant or Powell at 2.
 
GDiama said:
I don't think Nuggets would like to put together the most expensive team of all time while 2/4 their max players will sit the season out. Next year that Porter's contract kicks in will be a nightmare.
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Let's hope they're not the penny-pinching skinflints that you obviously are.
 
I have always thought that if Zion was healthy, that adding CJ would make them a playoff team. This trade would not be a great return but for me would be better than having to sit through another season watching CJ. It would be CJ and Dennis Smith for Devonte Graham, Satoransky (would have to wait till dec 15 for Graham, these two would be mostly to make salaries match) and two guys with length and above average defenders, Alexander-walker and Herbert Jones.
Josh Hart could be substituted for Graham; I see they signed Graham to four years and he is having kind of a down year.
 
Hoopguru said:
Not disputing that and I know CJ dribbles too much. If you look at teams with that have had tandem scoring guards for a number of years Dame and CJ are about average for shots taken. Part of the problem with Portland imo, is if they had more conistant scoring form the front line CJ wouldn't go iso as much? maybe. I was hoping we would get more consistent scoring from Nance & RoCo. Dame doesn't appear to be as effective off the ball. Honestly until that starting back court changes we will be seeing the same stuff with Dame & CJ. Im hoping Chauncey decides to bring CJ off the bench and start Ant or Powell at 2.
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Due to the size of CJ's contract, that will never happen here in Portland. And on nights when they have got scoring from the front line (Nurk), it seems like CJ gets jealous and starts jacking up even more shots regardless of the discrepancy in efficiency.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
I have always thought that if Zion was healthy, that adding CJ would make them a playoff team. This trade would not be a great return but for me would be better than having to sit through another season watching CJ. It would be CJ and Dennis Smith for Devonte Graham, Satoransky (would have to wait till dec 15 for Graham, these two would be mostly to make salaries match) and two guys with length and above average defenders, Alexander-walker and Herbert Jones.
Josh Hart could be substituted for Graham; I see they signed Graham to four years and he is having kind of a down year.
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Remember, you're talking about a franchise that let Lonzo Ball depart for nothing just because they didn't want to pay him a market salary, despite his being a wing-sized point guard who's a great defender, passer and solid shooter.

They're not going to be interested in CJ and his salary, especially when they have to give up assets to do it.
 
I don't see any team being interested in CJ, and particularly not for the price it would take Olshey to even consider it.

Kuzma/KCP/Harrell for CJ would have been a great deal in the offseason. :deadhorse:
 
CJ makes double the money than he’s worth which makes trading him for anything more than another over priced role player nearly impossible
 
MickZagger said:
CJ makes double the money than he’s worth which makes trading him for anything more than another over priced role player nearly impossible
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nailed it. The time to trade him was when he was 25/26 and still full of potential, but Olshey shut that door years ago.

Similar to Morey letting his ego get in the way of letting Ben go for fair market value, Neil probably sees what fair market value is for CJ and refuses to move him, even if it would make the team better. A few role players would be a big blow to his ego and past proclamations.
 
MickZagger said:
CJ makes double the money than he’s worth which makes trading him for anything more than another over priced role player nearly impossible
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I think there are trades that could be made that would balance this roster and include CJ without us having to take on a bad contract. CJ gets buckets and that always has value. I'm not saying a GM is going to give up a legit second option for CJ but if we want expiring contracts or a couple of high payed role players, then I think we could get that. If Olshey is here this is all a moot point because he's not giving up CJ for anything but an all star because he's a fucking stubborn idiot. Bottom line is that I don't think CJ has negative value due to his contract. If a team needs perimeter scoring they will take CJ and his contract.
 
Word is that the Nets might be ready to trade Kyrie. CJ's sort of a poor man's Kyrie, only he actually plays. Assuming Kyrie would threaten to retire if traded to the Blazers, but would probably be okay with the Knicks...

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We take horrible contracts but are rewarded with a couple of picks and Quickley. What would be great is if we bought out Walker - he'd've been bought out by two teams at once!
 

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Rastapopoulos said:
Word is that the Nets might be ready to trade Kyrie. CJ's sort of a poor man's Kyrie, only he actually plays. Assuming Kyrie would threaten to retire if traded to the Blazers, but would probably be okay with the Knicks...

View attachment 42549

We take horrible contracts but are rewarded with a couple of picks and Quickley. What would be great is if we bought out Walker - he'd've been bought out by two teams at once!
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I dont think the Knicks would want him if he still can't play half the games there.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Word is that the Nets might be ready to trade Kyrie. CJ's sort of a poor man's Kyrie, only he actually plays. Assuming Kyrie would threaten to retire if traded to the Blazers, but would probably be okay with the Knicks...

View attachment 42549

We take horrible contracts but are rewarded with a couple of picks and Quickley. What would be great is if we bought out Walker - he'd've been bought out by two teams at once!
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Kyrie and Rose on the same team?
 
RR7 said:
I dont think the Knicks would want him if he still can't play half the games there.
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It's a gamble that they can persuade him to get the shot? And besides, they're already paying Walker not to play ANY games.
 
At this point i just want him gone. I think our team will be better without him even if we bought him out. He contributes nothing.
 
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