Plausible destinations for our vets? (3 Viewers)

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Meh carrington may become something, but for now I’ll take the young promise of Deni who shows to play one of the most well rounded games you’ll see these days.

blazers stacking picks with no plan of improving the roster now… now that would be devastating. Deni was a mvp pickup for Cronin who has been absolutely crushing it in the face of plenty (unwarranted) criticism.
 
LAL fans have now found a way to trade for Curry! Two Frp and DLO et al. I shit you not.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
The BLAZERS are projected as a bad lottery team, but mainly because it's expected that they won't allow that lineup to happen. That lineup with a good-to-great coach is at least a GOOD lottery team.
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But, doesn't that mean "bad" lottery team?
 
Foxx said:
Deni was a mvp pickup for Cronin who has been absolutely crushing it in the face of plenty (unwarranted) criticism.
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Hmm... that seems like a bit of a stretch, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Hmm... that seems like a bit of a stretch, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.
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seems pretty universally a win for the Blazers from both fanbases and leaguewide, just sharing their opinion and possibly agreeing
 
Foxx said:
seems pretty universally a win for the Blazers from both fanbases and leaguewide, just sharing their opinion and possibly agreeing
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Oh, the Deni pickup was great. It's the idea that Cronin has been "absolutely crushing it" and that criticism of him is unwarranted that seems off to me. I think he probably overpaid for Avdija, I think he wasted opportunities in the second round, I think he should have been able to deal Grant this offseason (Ant too). And there's plenty to criticize him over from prior seasons as well.

Still, I'm optimistic for the impact Deni and Clingan can have going forward. I'm just less optimistic that Cronin will be able to convert Grant/Ant/Tisse/RW3 into solid pieces for the rebuild.
 
Foxx said:
seems pretty universally a win for the Blazers from both fanbases and leaguewide, just sharing their opinion and possibly agreeing
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naaah, Wizards fans are not happy. Cronin pritchslapped DC. Now they're stuck with Jordan Poole, Kuzma rumors, an expiring Brogdon, and a possible bust #2 draft pick.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
The BLAZERS are projected as a bad lottery team, but mainly because it's expected that they won't allow that lineup to happen. That lineup with a good-to-great coach is at least a GOOD lottery team.
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Could say that about every NBA team except the Wizards, Pistons and Nets.
 
beast blazer said:
He's exactly the type of player we wanted to get for Damian. A young front court player with star potential.
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I'll reiterate...

PtldPlatypus said:
Oh, the Deni pickup was great. It's the idea that Cronin has been "absolutely crushing it" and that criticism of him is unwarranted that seems off to me. I think he probably overpaid for Avdija, I think he wasted opportunities in the second round, I think he should have been able to deal Grant this offseason (Ant too). And there's plenty to criticize him over from prior seasons as well.
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PtldPlatypus said:
I'll reiterate...
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Ok, you have a right to your opinion. But we really lost nothing in Brogdon. And the chances that we'd have drafted a player as good as Deni with either of those picks is below 50%, let alone 2. The chance of it being an over pay is = to the chance we would have struck gold on the 2 picks.
 
beast blazer said:
Ok, you have a right to your opinion. But we really lost nothing in Brogdon. And the chances that we'd have drafted a player as good as Deni with either of those picks is below 50%, let alone 2. The chance of it being an over pay is = to the chance we would have struck gold on the 2 picks.
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Again, goes back to the two methods of conceptualizing asset value. I don't disagree that Brogdon and the two picks likely have lower combined intrinsic value to the team's future than Deni does. I'm just saying that those assets likely have higher market value. Overall, I'm happy with the Avdija trade, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think he probably could have acquired him for a little less than he did.
 
beast blazer said:
Ok, you have a right to your opinion. But we really lost nothing in Brogdon. And the chances that we'd have drafted a player as good as Deni with either of those picks is below 50%, let alone 2. The chance of it being an over pay is = to the chance we would have struck gold on the 2 picks.
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first thing: Brogdon was not the future so yeah, no upside was lost by trading him. However, he was the best player on the team statistically. There's also this: Portland won 15 games when Brogdon played; they won 6 games when he didn't play. A .380 winning percentage when he played; a .140 winning percentage when he didn't. He was the most impactful player. Obviously, there was more going on than just the Brogdon influence, but having a savvy veteran who actually knew how to run an NBA offense vs Ant and Scoot, who didn't, was a big factor

as far as the two draft picks, we don't know how good or bad the 2029 pick will be. Hypothetically it could be the 2nd pick in a great draft, or the 30th pick in a poor draft. Just going by where Portland and Milwaukee are, and where they are projected to be in 2029, there is certainly some risk in giving up one of those picks (I'm assuming the Celtics will still be good). Blazers also traded two 2nd round picks, their own in 2028 & 2030. One final note: when the Blazers fork over that future 1st, it could be a year after Avdija has left as a UFA.

whether or not it was an overpay is probably going to depend on how good Avdija actually is. It was a steep price though. For certain, trading away two first's (#16 & #23) for Covington was not a good deal for the Blazers. Avdija looks like a more complete player, but he really only had 1 solid year out of 4 on a bad team
 
BIG Q said:
But do you really, really love children?
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wizenheimer said:
first thing: Brogdon was not the future so yeah, no upside was lost by trading him. However, he was the best player on the team statistically. There's also this: Portland won 15 games when Brogdon played; they won 6 games when he didn't play. A .380 winning percentage when he played; a .140 winning percentage when he didn't. He was the most impactful player. Obviously, there was more going on than just the Brogdon influence, but having a savvy veteran who actually knew how to run an NBA offense vs Ant and Scoot, who didn't, was a big factor

as far as the two draft picks, we don't know how good or bad the 2029 pick will be. Hypothetically it could be the 2nd pick in a great draft, or the 30th pick in a poor draft. Just going by where Portland and Milwaukee are, and where they are projected to be in 2029, there is certainly some risk in giving up one of those picks (I'm assuming the Celtics will still be good). Blazers also traded two 2nd round picks, their own in 2028 & 2030. One final note: when the Blazers fork over that future 1st, it could be a year after Avdija has left as a UFA.

whether or not it was an overpay is probably going to depend on how good Avdija actually is. It was a steep price though. For certain, trading away two first's (#16 & #23) for Covington was not a good deal for the Blazers. Avdija looks like a more complete player, but he really only had 1 solid year out of 4 on a bad team
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If you're placing bets you'd assume the picks that far in the future would be ~15ish. To me, trading a two picks for a player that already is young and on a good contract, that you know is going to be good is a no brainer. Deni would have been the #1 overall pick in this draft.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I'm pretty agnostic about Cronin's offseason, but apparently it was the second-worst in the league:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/56...ason-rankings-2024-lakers-clippers-suns-heat/
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It's behind a paywall, but I think that's ludicrous.

First - the offseason isn't over. We very well might still make a trade of Grant or Simons.

Second - we picked up Clingon and Avdija, which was lauded around the league on both accounts.

Who creates a list like that when it's still August?
 
Natebishop3 said:
It's behind a paywall, but I think that's ludicrous.

First - the offseason isn't over. We very well might still make a trade of Grant or Simons.

Second - we picked up Clingon and Avdija, which was lauded around the league on both accounts.

Who creates a list like that when it's still August?
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I won't be very happy with Joe if we start the season with both Ant and Jerami but we all know that between the end of SL and the beginning of September is a big time lull in front office action around the league. I don't know what to expect from our front office but I think it's likely that they revisit trading Jerami to the Lakers and elsewhere between the beginning of next month and the beginning of training camp. I also think if they get the Jerami deal done that as Highkin reported (I think during SL) after they get Jerami moved they'll start really shopping Ant.

I still think that Joe saying in two different press conferences that we are now building around Scoot and Shaedon was his way of communicating that the players currently better than those two (Ant and Jerami) will be moved to clear the runway for the development of Scoot and Shaedon while simultaneously making it far easier to have a roster that plays as hard as it can day in and day out, without sitting guys and still have one of the best shots and Cooper Flagg or one of the other blue chippers in this draft.

At the same time I think every GM knows that Joe isn't going to give either Grant or Simons away and has no incentive to because he's obviously willing to sit them for lotto positioning. We're in a good place in the rebuild, I just hope Joe sticks to what he's said and leaves Jerami and Ant out of that rebuild.
 
beast blazer said:
If you're placing bets you'd assume the picks that far in the future would be ~15ish. To me, trading a two picks for a player that already is young and on a good contract, that you know is going to be good is a no brainer. Deni would have been the #1 overall pick in this draft.
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I think Avdija will be a decent player with a broad skillset. He was decent last season but the context of being on a terrible team is notable. A lot of players have looked better than they are when wins didn't matter.

but yeah, if he is good then a 14th and 15th pick isn't too steep a price, even though that wasn't the only price paid.
 
wizenheimer said:
I think Avdija will be a decent player with a broad skillset. He was decent last season but the context of being on a terrible team is notable. A lot of players have looked better than they are when wins didn't matter.

but yeah, if he is good then a 14th and 15th pick isn't too steep a price, even though that wasn't the only price paid.
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He was better than decent. Players that complete are a rarity. If you think he's only decent, 2 picks and Brogdon would be an over play. I see him as a guy who has "solved" one of our forward positions going forward in the rebuild.
 
beast blazer said:
He was better than decent.
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To me, 'decent' is a bit above average and that seems like what he was, last season at least

he had a PER of 14.9 when the NBA average is 15.0; a winshare/48 of .068 when the league average is .100; and a negative BPM. Now, he was on a terrible team so those numbers would be a little depressed, but the bad team factor can cut both ways

he's a very solid rebounder for his size and position, and has displayed some good potential as a passer and facilitator. He's appears to possess a well-rounded skillset and that's really nice to see after all of the flawed players Portland has auditioned over the last 8-9 years

I'm in the wait-and-see-if-he can-prove-it mode on his shooting because he made such dramatic improvements in one season. From 29% to 37% on three's; from 53% to 56% on two's; from about 53% to 58% in TS. His FT rate jumped from around .260 to .340. Those are all pretty substantial leaps. Maybe he adjusted to the NBA and just found his rhythm. I hope that's the case. But often players who do something like that regress to their norms rather than establishing new norms
 
wizenheimer said:
To me, 'decent' is a bit above average and that seems like what he was, last season at least

he had a PER of 14.9 when the NBA average is 15.0
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Not to nitpick--but 15.0 is supposed to be average starter, not average player. And of course, PER doesn't really reflect defense, where he's indisputably above-average. I would agree with beastie boy that those equate to better than "decent".
 
The thing to notice about Avdija is how much better he was in the last 3 months of the year. If this is an anomaly or not is hard to tell, but he finished the year much better than an average NBA starter.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Not to nitpick--but 15.0 is supposed to be average starter, not average player. And of course, PER doesn't really reflect defense, where he's indisputably above-average. I would agree with beastie boy that those equate to better than "decent".
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some good points, except I don't see anywhere that 15.0 is average for a starter rather than for all players. The 15.0 number remains a constant average for the league each season

how about solid all-around rather than decent?
 
wizenheimer said:
some good points, except I don't see anywhere that 15.0 is average for a starter rather than for all players. The 15.0 number remains a constant average for the league each season
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Crazy--I don't know where I thought I'd read that the 15 was set to starter average. Oh well, que sera sera...
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Crazy--I don't know where I thought I'd read that the 15 was set to starter average. Oh well, que sera sera...
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one weird thing about PER is that apparently, the standard for 15.0 changes each year depending on all the players in the league

like all stats, it has it's pro's and con's. I think it does a 'decent' job of gauging players who average 30 minutes or more a season

the top-20 last season:

Nikola Jokić 31.0
Giannis Antetokounmpo 29.9
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 29.3
Luka Dončić 28.1
Anthony Davis 25.8
LeBron James 23.7
Jalen Brunson 23.4
Tyrese Haliburton 23.3
Kawhi Leonard 23.2
Kristaps Porziņģis 23.2
Domantas Sabonis 23.2
Victor Wembanyama 23.1
Zion Williamson 22.8
Jayson Tatum 22.3
Donovan Mitchell 22.1
Jimmy Butler 22.0
Alperen Sengun 22.0
Devin Booker 21.9
Kyrie Irving 21.9
Jarrett Allen 21.8

I really don't see any outliers there, except that maybe Jarrett Aleen being ahead of Curry and Durant shows it's a stat a little skewed toward big men; most advanced stats are though
 
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