Plausible destinations for our vets? (3 Viewers)

[beast blazer]

some good points, except I don't see anywhere that 15.0 is average for a starter rather than for all players. The 15.0 number remains a constant average for the league each season

how about solid all-around rather than decent?

PER doesn't really credit a player for their defensive impact, which doesn't show up on the box score the same way offense does.

Like OG is considered to be a really good defender, his career per is 13.1. People consider Herb Jones to be one of the best wing defenders in the league. 12.6 career PER.

It's tilted towards players that score a lot. CJ for example, career per 17.5, all he really contributes is scoring. If you were building a team from scratch, what order would you take those 3 in?

 

[wizenheimer]

PER doesn't really credit a player for their defensive impact, which doesn't show up on the box score the same way offense does.

Like OG is considered to be a really good defender, his career per is 13.1. People consider Herb Jones to be one of the best wing defenders in the league. 12.6 career PER.

It's tilted towards players that score a lot. CJ for example, career per 17.5, all he really contributes is scoring. If you were building a team from scratch, what order would you take those 3 in?

yeah, I understand that a lot of metrics don't gauge defense well, PER being one of them.

IIRC, Ive only seen Avdja play a 3 or 4 times when the Blazers played his team. I'm skeptical of highlight videos. He played well as I remember. I'm not sure he's a lock-down defender like OG though. Of course, I'm not sure that OG is either

 

[inconceivable]

So is our opening night roster set or what?

 

[blazerkor]

So is our opening night roster set or what?

Was our opening night roster set this time last year? Nothing happens between Summer League and the end of August but there are usually a handful of trades between the beginning of September and training camp.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

So is our opening night roster set or what?

I'd say yes.

Big fail on Cronin and the Blazers part, should have taken one good pick for Grant.

Could turn into a Timelord 2.0 situation but a 40 million boat anchor contract instead of 10 million.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Was our opening night roster set this time last year? Nothing happens between Summer League and the end of August but there are usually a handful of trades between the beginning of September and training camp.

Grant and Simons with young kids and families don't want to be moved days before camp starts. At this point the Blazers are standing pat.

Dame was different as he wanted out and would have been a sideshow with him at media day/camp.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Was our opening night roster set this time last year? Nothing happens between Summer League and the end of August but there are usually a handful of trades between the beginning of September and training camp.

Weren't you saying at the start of summer league all these GMs could meet face to face then we'd see a ton of trades?

What we got was crickets.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I'd say yes.

Big fail on Cronin and the Blazers part, should have taken one good pick for Grant.

Could turn into a Timelord 2.0 situation but a 40 million boat anchor contract instead of 10 million.

I am indifferent about that. I guess it depends on what you consider a good pick. Is any 1st a "good pick"?
Are we talking about a future Laker pick? If we are going to help the Lakers I prefer we ask for more.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Grant and Simons with young kids and families don't want to be moved days before camp starts. At this point the Blazers are standing pat.

Dame was different as he wanted out and would have been a sideshow with him at media day/camp.

Sorry. I don't care much about what Grant and Simons want right now. We need max draft capital (or equivalent young talent) in return for those guys ASAP or we're most likely going to be another treadmill team hoping to get back to the Dame glory days before having to tear it down again.

 

[wizenheimer]

I am indifferent about that. I guess it depends on what you consider a good pick. Is any 1st a "good pick"?
Are we talking about a future Laker pick? If we are going to help the Lakers I prefer we ask for more.

considering what the 2nd apron issue was going to force the Lakers to part with, I don't believe Grant would have helped

Russell+Hachimura combined for 9.2 winshares last season; Grant had 2.7 winshares last year and his average has been 3.4

personally, I question if trade talks ever got serious, especially if Cronin was asking for any unprotected 1st round pick, or more than one. I believe the Lakers would have told Cronin to pound sand because they can do the math too. They'd have been justified in hanging up the phone

 

[Pinwheel1]

considering what the 2nd apron issue was going to force the Lakers to part with, I don't believe Grant would have helped

Russell+Hachimura combined for 9.2 winshares last season; Grant had 2.7 winshares last year and his average has been 3.4

personally, I question if trade talks ever got serious, especially if Cronin was asking for any unprotected 1st round pick, or more than one. I believe the Lakers would have told Cronin to pound sand because they can do the math too. They'd have been justified in hanging up the phone

Assuming that the Lakers (or most GMs) prioritize those particular analytics. I wouldn't.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

If they're asking us to take back Gabe Vincent, I think we deserve two 1sts. I would throw in Timelord with Grant and take back whatever to get back two 1sts. I don't care much about any of the players coming back unless we can flip Russell for a 1st.

 

[wizenheimer]

If they're asking us to take back Gabe Vincent, I think we deserve two 1sts. I would throw in Timelord with Grant and take back whatever to get back two 1sts. I don't care much about any of the players coming back unless we can flip Russell for a 1st.

I've pointed it out before, but he last time I checked, the Lakers were only about 40K below the 2nd apron....meaning they can't take on more salary than they send out

Russell + Vincent doesn't work
Hachimura + Vincent doesn't work
Russell + Vanderbilt doesn't work

none of those trade ideas work unless the Lakers are adding another salary and a 3 for 1 trade causes issues for both teams

Russell + Hachimura puts the Lakers 6M below the 2nd apron and allows the Lakers room for other moves

but the problem with that is last season Russell + Hachimura combined for 32pts, 7rebs, and 8 asts; and they did so efficiently while shooting 42% on three's. It's very doubtful that Grant's production & impact could match that, and it would also deplete Laker depth. I don't think there's any way the Lakers would send an unprotected 1st in 2029-31 along with those two players. Grant is not worth that. I've been wrong before, maybe it will happen, but I'm skeptical and convinced that a lot of Blazer fans are grossly overrating the value of Blazer players. If the front office shares those opinions, it's unlikely any moves will be made

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I've pointed it out before, but he last time I checked, the Lakers were only about 40K below the 2nd apron....meaning they can't take on more salary than they send out

Russell + Vincent doesn't work
Hachimura + Vincent doesn't work
Russell + Vanderbilt doesn't work

none of those trade ideas work unless the Lakers are adding another salary and a 3 for 1 trade causes issues for both teams

Russell + Hachimura puts the Lakers 6M below the 2nd apron and allows the Lakers room for other moves

but the problem with that is last season Russell + Hachimura combined for 32pts, 7rebs, and 8 asts; and they did so efficiently while shooting 42% on three's. It's very doubtful that Grant's production & impact could match that, and it would also deplete Laker depth. I don't think there's any way the Lakers would send an unprotected 1st in 2029-31 along with those two players. Grant is not worth that. I've been wrong before, maybe it will happen, but I'm skeptical and convinced that a lot of Blazer fans are grossly overrating the value of Blazer players. If the front office shares those opinions, it's unlikely any moves will be made

Grant and Timelord for Rui, Vincent, and Vanderbilt works on salary... Throw in the 2 1sts and they got it.

 

[Pinwheel1]

but the problem with that is last season Russell + Hachimura combined for 32pts, 7rebs, and 8 asts; and they did so efficiently while shooting 42% on three's. It's very doubtful that Grant's production & impact could match that, and it would also deplete Laker depth. I don't think there's any way the Lakers would send an unprotected 1st in 2029-31 along with those two players. Grant is not worth that. I've been wrong before, maybe it will happen, but I'm skeptical and convinced that a lot of Blazer fans are grossly overrating the value of Blazer players. If the front office shares those opinions, it's unlikely any moves will be made

Russel is just a filler with an ending contract. The Lakers don't want him and I doubt the Bazer do either. If they could trade him for a 1st they already would have. If it were not for his ending contract I doubt they could trade him.....despite his stats.

Hachimura is decent, but the Lakers clearly want an upgrade. Who is the best player in that trade scenario? Most people think it is Grant. So if they want the better player then they have to throw in the 1st. IMO the issue is they don't want to throw in two.

 

[Samuel]

my guess is that it's not just that pelinka won't throw in a first--he won't throw in an unprotected first.

 

[inconceivable]

Was our opening night roster set this time last year? Nothing happens between Summer League and the end of August but there are usually a handful of trades between the beginning of September and training camp.

Dame was traded last week of September last year

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Dame was traded last week of September last year

Dame asked out, and it took nearly 3 months for Cronin to get something done. Nobody on our current roster has done the same, so there's no pressure for Cronin to make anymore moves. He's basically hibernating until February.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I've pointed it out before, but he last time I checked, the Lakers were only about 40K below the 2nd apron....meaning they can't take on more salary than they send out

Russell + Vincent doesn't work
Hachimura + Vincent doesn't work
Russell + Vanderbilt doesn't work

none of those trade ideas work unless the Lakers are adding another salary and a 3 for 1 trade causes issues for both teams

Russell + Hachimura puts the Lakers 6M below the 2nd apron and allows the Lakers room for other moves

but the problem with that is last season Russell + Hachimura combined for 32pts, 7rebs, and 8 asts; and they did so efficiently while shooting 42% on three's. It's very doubtful that Grant's production & impact could match that, and it would also deplete Laker depth. I don't think there's any way the Lakers would send an unprotected 1st in 2029-31 along with those two players. Grant is not worth that. I've been wrong before, maybe it will happen, but I'm skeptical and convinced that a lot of Blazer fans are grossly overrating the value of Blazer players. If the front office shares those opinions, it's unlikely any moves will be made

This would be unfortunate. We can't afford to make that kind of mistake right now.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Grant and Timelord for Rui, Vincent, and Vanderbilt works on salary... Throw in the 2 1sts and they got it.

But that's probably asking the Lakers to get worse while giving us 2 1sts.

I can see them making that argument. Seems like a tough sell to me.

 

[Hoopguru]

Hoops Hype has JGrant ranked 13 best of 30 PF's in the league......

 

[Sheldon Shape]

But that's probably asking the Lakers to get worse while giving us 2 1sts.

I can see them making that argument. Seems like a tough sell to me.

Huh?

Worse in the long-term? Maybe.

Worse in the short-term? Absolutely not. How does Vincent, Rui, and Vanderbilt > Grant & Timelord?

 

[Phatguysrule]

Huh?

Worse in the long-term? Maybe.

Worse in the short-term? Absolutely not. How does Vincent, Rui, and Vanderbilt > Grant & Timelord?

You're right. I read wrong and thought you had Russell in there. I'm all for it.

 

[Natebishop3]

considering what the 2nd apron issue was going to force the Lakers to part with, I don't believe Grant would have helped

Russell+Hachimura combined for 9.2 winshares last season; Grant had 2.7 winshares last year and his average has been 3.4

personally, I question if trade talks ever got serious, especially if Cronin was asking for any unprotected 1st round pick, or more than one. I believe the Lakers would have told Cronin to pound sand because they can do the math too. They'd have been justified in hanging up the phone

How does winshare work on a team that's tanking?

 

[RR7]

How does winshare work on a team that's tanking?

Teams not winning tend not to post high win shares. Seems like a pretty foolish way to compare players, IMO.
Victor Wembanyama had 3.7 win shares last year. Chet Holmgren had 8.9.
Yet Wemby had a higher BPM and VORP. Do we think with them swapped, OKC is worse by 5 games, and S.A. is better by 5?

 

[wizenheimer]

Grant and Timelord for Rui, Vincent, and Vanderbilt works on salary... Throw in the 2 1sts and they got it.

no, it does not

Rui + Vincent + Vanderbilt = 38.7M...Grant + Timelord = 41.2M. Again...the Lakers have to send out more salary than they take back. If they don't, they can't aggregate salaries

besides that, you said Portland taking on Vincent was worth another first. It's probably the case that Timelord has more negative value than Vincent

I don't believe, for a second, the Lakers would send an unprotected 1st. They certainly wouldn't send two unprotected 1st's and that's the only way they could send more than 1

 

[wizenheimer]

How does winshare work on a team that's tanking?

it's just one gauge. if you don't like it fine. How about a comparison:



*******************************************************************



I think Grant is probably the best player of the three, but he and Russell are really close in value. And there isn't a significant gap between Rui and Grant. I just have a hard time seeing the Lakers trading both for Grant AND adding an unprotected pick

 

[Sheldon Shape]

no, it does not

Rui + Vincent + Vanderbilt = 38.7M...Grant + Timelord = 41.2M. Again...the Lakers have to send out more salary than they take back. If they don't, they can't aggregate salaries

besides that, you said Portland taking on Vincent was worth another first. It's probably the case that Timelord has more negative value than Vincent

I don't believe, for a second, the Lakers would send an unprotected 1st. They certainly wouldn't send two unprotected 1st's and that's the only way they could send more than 1

Real GM disagrees, but even if you're right, you can easily get around that by throwing in Christian Wood or Jaxon Hayes. Or another small salary player. It doesn't matter much who.

Timelord has more value because if he plays, he's a factor. Vincent is a non-factor in every which way.

Congratulations on a successful trade
Due to the L.A. Lakers being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, the L.A. Lakers could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.

Due to Portland being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, Portland could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.

This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

 

[wizenheimer]

Real GM disagrees, but even if you're right, you can easily get around that by throwing in Christian Wood or Jaxon Hayes. Or another small salary player. It doesn't matter much who.

Timelord has more value because if he plays, he's a factor. Vincent is a non-factor in every which way.

Congratulations on a successful trade
Due to the L.A. Lakers being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, the L.A. Lakers could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.

Due to Portland being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, Portland could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.

This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

* RealGM is wrong. That's not surprising. As far as I can tell they have never updated their machine to account for 2nd apron restrictions

* it doesn't matter whether Timelord or Vincent has more negative value. Including Timelord means the Blazers would get no bump for eating Vincent's contract. They wouldn't get a 1st round pick for that anyway. Not a chance

* adding Hayes wouldn't make for a legal trade. He doesn't have enough of a salary. Adding Wood would work, technically, but the Lakers would only be 400-500K below the 2nd apron and would have just made a 4-for-2 trade when they only have 15 players under contract. They'd have to sign another player to have the minimum roster and that would put them over the 2nd apron

so, to summarize....the Lakers would make arguably at lateral trade, at best. They'd send two unprotected 1st's AND get slammed and locked behind 2nd apron rules...all for Jerami Grant....wow

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Dame asked out, and it took nearly 3 months for Cronin to get something done. Nobody on our current roster has done the same, so there's no pressure for Cronin to make anymore moves. He's basically hibernating until February.

Then in February we'll start hearing how Cronin wants to wait until the summer. Then in the summer we will hear how we want to wait until closer to training camp, then repeat, repeat, repeat.

It becomes super hard to have any excitement at all for this franchise that never committed to winning with Dame, doesn't want to win any time soon, but alternatively doesn't commit all the way to its youth or a full on rebuild. We just continue pushing the can down the road trying to thread the needle as we have ever since the weeks after Olshey got fired. Oh and we waste money on overpaid veteran contracts but then somehow simultaneously find ourselves giving up assets to dump salary.

Next year we'll probably start with winning more games then we should but not enough to make a run at the playin. Then in February we switch to hard tanking while playing g league scrubs and faking injuries. We likely won't be quite bad enough to get the great picks at the top of a very loaded draft, and we won't be good enough to have any fun rooting for meaningful wins. Its what we've done every single year Cronin has been the GM. I don't know why any of us hope for something different.