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Phatguysrule said:
They were literally pounding on the outside of the door hunting for congress with makeshift weapons and zip ties for taking hostages...

The mob was literally a few feet and one incredibly brave police officer away from finding congress...

Don't you think that's an unacceptable risk?
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The police literally escorted people inside. Some were unruly and broke things, some took selfies and some just meandered around. There wasn’t a planned insurrection with a stated goal everyone was on board with. No Donald Trump didn’t tell anyone to riot or enter the capitol. It was a shit show and when the doors were opened a handful of opportunists went inside to make some sort of a point by occupying the building temporarily. Most if not all got bored and left on their own accord. The only person who died violently was a Trump supporter who was shot through a door. The entire “insurrection” narrative is exaggerated.
If attempted murder and attempted kidnapping are your big claims then why isn’t anyone being charged with those specific crimes? I find it really interesting all these grandiose claims of incitement, insurrection etc. people use to justify Jan 6 prosecutions or Trump indictments don’t reflect the actual charges being handed out. Most of the charges are obscure and outdated and are being interpreted extremely loosely.
 
Wow, just fucking wow...some people can talk themselves into anything...especially when they refuse to answer a simple yes or no question. What happened on Jan. 6th was by definition, an "insurrection"...and was "unacceptable".

Spin it however you like to somehow attempt to claim otherwise, but what happened on Jan 6th was flat out wrong and unacceptable...and cannot happen ever again.
 
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jonnyboy said:
The police literally escorted people inside. Some were unruly and broke things, some took selfies and some just meandered around. There wasn’t a planned insurrection with a stated goal everyone was on board with. No Donald Trump didn’t tell anyone to riot or enter the capitol. It was a shit show and when the doors were opened a handful of opportunists went inside to make some sort of a point by occupying the building temporarily. Most if not all got bored and left on their own accord. The only person who died violently was a Trump supporter who was shot through a door. The entire “insurrection” narrative is exaggerated.
If attempted murder and attempted kidnapping are your big claims then why isn’t anyone being charged with those specific crimes? I find it really interesting all these grandiose claims of incitement, insurrection etc. people use to justify Jan 6 prosecutions or Trump indictments don’t reflect the actual charges being handed out. Most of the charges are obscure and outdated and are being interpreted extremely loosely.
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Trump literally told them to walk to the capital. And told them they had to fight like hell.
 
theprunetang said:
And I'm not just looking back at the past, I'm using it as a frame of reference for the future. How do you think MAGA world will react if/when Trump and his cronies are found guilty and sentenced, or if/when Trump is disqualified from ballots, or if/when he cries about another electoral loss? I see their past actions and can extrapolate that we will see violence, massive legislative obstruction, etc. I don't see a way MAGA, who are completely brainwashed at this point, does not become an Al Qaeda-style insurgent group.
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Millions of people see what’s going right now as an egregious weaponization of the justice system, and a blatant attempt at the very type of election interference they are claiming to be prosecuting. I think there’s a strong case for those viewpoints when you consider how dubious and obscure the laws behind the indictments are.
What are people going to do when, on top of inflation, taxation without representation and rampant corruption among other things, they feel their vote has also been taken away? Not sure. Maybe you are right, maybe shit will get crazy.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Trump literally told them to walk to the capital. And told them they had to fight like hell.
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I think we both know those statements weren’t made in the context of “let’s overthrow the government.” Especially after you consider his pleads for people to remain peaceful in the very same address. He was clearly referring to the upcoming legal battles and the “fight” to prove his belief that there was some type of meddling.
The argument has to at least start from some place of honesty or it will just never go anywhere.
 
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jonnyboy said:
I think we both know those statements weren’t made in the context of “let’s overthrow the government.” Especially after you consider his pleads for people to remain peaceful in the very same address. The argument has to at least start from some place of honesty or it will just never go anywhere.
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Then what in the hell do you think Trump's message to them was all about?...and you claim that Trump "pled" for the insurrectionists to remain peaceful?


...and you have the gall to use the term "honesty"?...and you have the gall to say that I'm the one who's a "troll"?...please.
 
yankeesince59 said:
Then what in the hell do you think Trump's message to them was all about?
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His belief there was some sort of election meddling that took place and the ensuing legal battles to come. Pretty straightforward.
yankeesince59 said:
and you claim that Trump "pled" for the insurrectionists to remain peaceful?
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That’s just a fact. That is a thing that happened. Not sure how to explain that to you any differently.
yankeesince59 said:
and you have the gall to use the term "honesty"?...
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Correct.
 
jonnyboy said:
Millions of people see what’s going right now as an egregious weaponization of the justice system, and a blatant attempt at the very type of election interference they are claiming to be prosecuting. I think there’s a strong case for those viewpoints when you consider how dubious and obscure the laws behind the indictments are.
What are people going to do when, on top of inflation, taxation without representation and rampant corruption among other things, they feel their vote has also been taken away? Not sure. Maybe you are right, maybe shit will get crazy.
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Sorry, but those "millions" you referenced are in the minority. And to claim that he "pled" for the insurrectionists to be peaceful is at best a gross exaggeration.
 
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jonnyboy said:
His belief there was some sort of election meddling that took place and the ensuing legal battles to come. Pretty straightforward.

That’s just a fact. That is a thing that happened. Not sure how to explain that to you any differently.

Correct.
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lol...no, that would make you and your führer both woefully wrong. His vanity and/or beliefs about the election does not justify or excuse him for what he did and what he will have to answer for.
 
jonnyboy said:
I think we both know those statements weren’t made in the context of “let’s overthrow the government.” Especially after you consider his pleads for people to remain peaceful in the very same address. He was clearly referring to the upcoming legal battles and the “fight” to prove his belief that there was some type of meddling.
The argument has to at least start from some place of honesty or it will just never go anywhere.
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I firmly believe he was trying to get them to the capital and in a frenzied state.

I think he kept saying "peaceful" because he was coached to do so and was covering his own ass.

I firmly believe he deliberately understaffed the capital police.

I firmly believe he had set up the Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, and others to get the crowd further into a frenzy and lead them to attacking the capital building.

If he didn't want them to be violent he would have made an appearance and told them to stop. They went there and did exactly what he wanted. Only they were less capable than he hoped.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I firmly believe he was trying to get them to the capital and in a frenzied state.
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That is an opinion and you are entitled to it.
Phatguysrule said:
I firmly believe he deliberately understaffed the capital police.
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I would ask you to look into this a little deeper. Trump requested four days prior the national guard be present on the 6th but the request was denied. Capitol police corroborate this as well as the fact that Nancy Pelosi herself held off the deployment of NG for over an hour during the entering of the capitol by protesters.
Phatguysrule said:
I firmly believe he had set up the Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, and others to get the crowd further into a frenzy and lead them to attacking the capital building.
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There isn’t evidence for that but you can believe it.
Phatguysrule said:
If he didn't want them to be violent he would have made an appearance and told them to stop. They went there and did exactly what he wanted. Only they were less capable than he hoped.
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Again, speculation. If you want to point out things could’ve been handled better though you won’t get a ton of pushback from me.
 
jonnyboy said:
That is an opinion and you are entitled to it.
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Yes. And it's backed up by his speech and his refusal to publicly call the crowd off, even when his own people were pleading with him to do so.

jonnyboy said:
I would ask you to look into this a little deeper. Trump requested four days prior the national guard be present on the 6th but the request was denied. Capitol police corroborate this as well as the fact that Nancy Pelosi herself held off the deployment of NG for over an hour during the entering of the capitol by protesters.
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See Sly's links on this.

jonnyboy said:
There isn’t evidence for that but you can believe it.
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Key Trump Allies Were Talking to Proud Boys Before Jan. 6, Committee Says

jonnyboy said:
Again, speculation. If you want to point out things could’ve been handled better though you won’t get a ton of pushback from me.
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I think it was handled exactly as Trump intended to handle it.

I fully believed Trump was going to be just a bumbling idiot of a president when he was elected. He was far more dangerous than I thought he would be. I'd love nothing more than to just believe he handled things poorly.

It was far worse than that.
 
jonnyboy said:
I don’t pay for WP and the apnews link doesn’t load, but here’s an official capitol police timeline of events in pdf form:
https://justthenews.com/sites/default/files/2022-06/USCPJan.6Timeline.pdf
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You don't have to pay for The Washington Post to read that. I don't and it loaded fine.

But just in case, here is an archived copy.

https://archive.fo/kREH3

And an Archived copy of the AP piece as well... though, the original loaded for me.

https://archive.ph/ROLhE
 
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A 13 year old boy was hospitalized with a skull fracture after being assaulted by a grown man for failing to remove his hat during playing of national anthem. The man was ordered to pay medical expenses and sentenced to 10 years probation, despite already being on 10 years probation for an unrelated assault.

He said he was doing what Trump would want.
 
crandc said:
A 13 year old boy was hospitalized with a skull fracture after being assaulted by a grown man for failing to remove his hat during playing of national anthem. The man was ordered to pay medical expenses and sentenced to 10 years probation, despite already being on 10 years probation for an unrelated assault.

He said he was doing what Trump would want.
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Wasn't that like 3 years ago?
 
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