OT Police vs Americans

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So no plates on a car and jaywalking can get you beat by the cops.
 
I wonder if it has always been like this, but we just didn't know because there weren't any cameras?
 
http://www.copblock.org

I have followed this site off and on for a couple years. Some of the articles and videos are downright repulsive. There may be only a few bad apples giving all cops a bad name, but there are some REALLY bad ones. The good cops are just as bad, if they stand there and allow the stuff to happen. Man, this is a subject I could go on and on about....
 
You have to figure that outright corruption used to be rampant with police in America. Especially during prohibition.

Issues with our police force is not a new thing. On the one hand, I think cops get a raw deal in a lot of ways, but I also think they need to rethink their tactics and how they apply them to the public.

One issue is that I think they look way too militaristic. Why the hell are cops wearing plate carriers in public?

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I find this to be completely ridiculous. Are they in a combat zone? Why not give them tactical helmets to match and an AR-15 to carry on the beat? These aren't the streets of Baghdad. Dressing cops like they're in a combat situation will only put them in that frame of mind. Especially if they're former military.

This is what cops used to look like. Which group looks more approachable?

6-2-ShopCops.jpg
 
I agree with you about approachability, but I was supposed to wear a whole bunch of kit while riding the mean streets of Kabul. Nevermind that I wore nothing but native clothes when I was running around Helmand province.

There are about 1.1M cops, similar to the 1.4M active duty military. Since 2015, there have been 271 deaths of policemen, the vast majority by gunshot. There have been 77 deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan combined since 2015.

The job is dangerous, and (imho) moreso since the vitriol of the extremist (not normal) side of the BLM spinoffs. It's hard as a supervisor or leader to tell your people to take risks without protection.

To the original point, I'm all for cops being held to a much stricter standard in their duties than they are, and much harsher penalties if they violate those standards. Don't want to live up to that? Don't become a policeman.
 
BrianFromWA said:
I agree with you about approachability, but I was supposed to wear a whole bunch of kit while riding the mean streets of Kabul. Nevermind that I wore nothing but native clothes when I was running around Helmand province.

There are about 1.1M cops, similar to the 1.4M active duty military. Since 2015, there have been 271 deaths of policemen, the vast majority by gunshot. There have been 77 deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan combined since 2015.

The job is dangerous, and (imho) moreso since the vitriol of the extremist (not normal) side of the BLM spinoffs. It's hard as a supervisor or leader to tell your people to take risks without protection.

To the original point, I'm all for cops being held to a much stricter standard in their duties than they are, and much harsher penalties if they violate those standards. Don't want to live up to that? Don't become a policeman.
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I think there are ways of achieving a higher standard of safety without looking like you're about to stack up and breach. Realistically, unless they're wearing sapi plates, the plate carriers are overkill. They can wear soft armor without rocking MOLLE. I get it, tac vests are great for bearing the load of all that gear, but they're supposed to be approachable. They're supposed to be a part of the community. They're not supposed to look like SWAT. The special tactics units are SUPPOSED to look scary. They're supposed to be tactical. Officer Friendly isn't supposed to look like he's about to load into a HMMWV and drive out to the FOB.
 
he isn't supposed to, but the citizenry is also not supposed to be out targeting him. Once the latter occurs, how do you (as Off. Friendly's supervisor) tell him "suck it up, be friendly, don't wear armor?"

SAPI's good for rifle rounds, but you can get concealed 9mm armor pretty cheaply. At least they say it's 9mm resistant. You could easily get away with concealed torso protection against pistol rounds. If a sniper is tossing 7.62 at you, you're pretty much screwed regardless of the plates... there isn't a helmet yet that'll stop that.
 
BrianFromWA said:
he isn't supposed to, but the citizenry is also not supposed to be out targeting him. Once the latter occurs, how do you (as Off. Friendly's supervisor) tell him "suck it up, be friendly, don't wear armor?"

SAPI's good for rifle rounds, but you can get concealed 9mm armor pretty cheaply. At least they say it's 9mm resistant. You could easily get away with concealed torso protection against pistol rounds. If a sniper is tossing 7.62 at you, you're pretty much screwed regardless of the plates... there isn't a helmet yet that'll stop that.
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But that's my point. You can wear soft armor under your uniform. You don't need a plate carrier, because these guys aren't wearing plates. If they were wearing SAPI's, then I guess you could make the argument that the vests are necessary, but cops used to wear the armor under their uniforms for years... maybe decades. What changed? Why is it acceptable to wear tac vests now?
 
Ah, gotcha. I agree on the visibility of the protection. I thought you meant they should look like Barney Fife.

Everyone wants to wear the Gucci kit. Have since the Cushites invaded Egypt. ;)
 
BrianFromWA said:
Ah, gotcha. I agree on the visibility of the protection. I thought you meant they should look like Barney Fife.

Everyone wants to wear the Gucci kit. Have since the Cushites invaded Egypt. ;)
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There was just so much advancement in kit after the Iraq War. I remember back in 2004 we were still rockin the tactical fishing vests from Tactical Tailor.
 
...should have offered him a Pepsi?! :dunno: #PepsiCansMatter
 
Cops are under a lot of stress just from department heads. You can be an outstanding officer and still feel like they are just looking for a reason to fire you. Most people can handle the stress, but others let it build up and explode on the wrong target. I have a theory that the ones that blow up probably spent some time in real combat, and were allowed to vent. Now in the public eye they cant do that. I think PTSD has a lot to do with cops going off the deep end and i wish more studies were done.
 
What's sad is what passive sheep we've become. Look at the guy beat by police on the United flight, lots of people filmed it but when the guy ran back on the plane and hide in the back this time the cops removed everyone from the plane before taking him off again. Everyone just left knowing that if the police did that to the guy with people watching there was nothing stopping them from beating the guy even more after they got all the passengers off the plane.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
What's sad is what passive sheep we've become. Look at the guy beat by police on the United flight, lots of people filmed it but when the guy ran back on the plane and hide in the back this time the cops removed everyone from the plane before taking him off again. Everyone just left knowing that if the police did that to the guy with people watching there was nothing stopping them from beating the guy even more after they got all the passengers off the plane.
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It's a fear of authority. The government is extremely powerful. People are angry, but they're not ready to actually step over that line.
 
BrianFromWA said:
he isn't supposed to, but the citizenry is also not supposed to be out targeting him. Once the latter occurs, how do you (as Off. Friendly's supervisor) tell him "suck it up, be friendly, don't wear armor?"

SAPI's good for rifle rounds, but you can get concealed 9mm armor pretty cheaply. At least they say it's 9mm resistant. You could easily get away with concealed torso protection against pistol rounds. If a sniper is tossing 7.62 at you, you're pretty much screwed regardless of the plates... there isn't a helmet yet that'll stop that.
Click to expand...
I've shot sapi plates with 762 and it didn't go through. It was with an M-39. They were broken sapi plates too. Honestly made me feel really good after I saw that lol.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
What's sad is what passive sheep we've become. Look at the guy beat by police on the United flight, lots of people filmed it but when the guy ran back on the plane and hide in the back this time the cops removed everyone from the plane before taking him off again. Everyone just left knowing that if the police did that to the guy with people watching there was nothing stopping them from beating the guy even more after they got all the passengers off the plane.
Click to expand...

To me theres more to it than just becoming passive sheep.
How many people on this flight were traveling with family members or a child who were relying on them?
Not trying to give an excuse as to why no one did anything. But there are other things to consider than your own safety if you decide to stand up and be heard.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
What's sad is what passive sheep we've become. Look at the guy beat by police on the United flight, lots of people filmed it but when the guy ran back on the plane and hide in the back this time the cops removed everyone from the plane before taking him off again. Everyone just left knowing that if the police did that to the guy with people watching there was nothing stopping them from beating the guy even more after they got all the passengers off the plane.
Click to expand...

What a bunch of crap, Sly. I know you're smarter than this.

It's standard procedure in most instances involving a combative subject to evacuate the premises so that other people don't get hurt. A person that violates security to run back on to an aircraft that he has already been removed from is considered a danger to himself and to others.

If they let people just remain in their seats, and this guy runs back on to the plane, with the cops chasing him, and another passenger gets hurt....what's your excuse for that?

This whole "cops should let him go" bullshit is getting out of hand. People...this is reality, and that is NOT how reality works.

In as far as being "frightened" by what the cops wear, the public needs to get over it. It's very convenient to carry the tools of your job in a vest that was designed for it. Cops carry a TON of shit, since they are basically a walking office for 10 hours a day. Get over it.
 
They can snap any moment. I remember about 14 years ago cops in this one county were corralling motorists because they cut through a convenience store lot. When they marshalled us into a shopping mall lot, the entrance drive cop was so angry and vile that he was ready to dis charge a weapon. I acted non chalant but if I had confrontation he would have beat me up. They can snap. They consider us their burden under stressful conditions.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
What's sad is what passive sheep we've become. Look at the guy beat by police on the United flight, lots of people filmed it but when the guy ran back on the plane and hide in the back this time the cops removed everyone from the plane before taking him off again. Everyone just left knowing that if the police did that to the guy with people watching there was nothing stopping them from beating the guy even more after they got all the passengers off the plane.
Click to expand...
This isn't how most people are. They talk big talk so over the Internet and virtue signal but when a problem arises they don't do anything, people just take out their phones and record because they know it will get hits or retweets, equals more interviews and exposure for them. A lot of people I come encounter with these days are about THEM. Selfish and it's sad.
 
People forget that cops are people too. There are a lot of corrupt one and past and present. Always hasn't been. There are also a shit load of good cops and it's become this us against them mentality which is dangerous. When cops see other cops getting gunned downed in Dallas or wherever and they have a family and want to come home to them, they might be a little more on edge and trigger happy when shit goes down and people refuse to see the cops side. I wouldn't like to see some of these people who complain about cops to put themselves in a cops situation. What would they do when somebody is being resistant and puts their hand in their pockets? I mean it's just getting uglier and that's because of this whole us vs them mentality people have created
 
Jade Falcon said:
What a bunch of crap, Sly. I know you're smarter than this.

It's standard procedure in most instances involving a combative subject to evacuate the premises so that other people don't get hurt. A person that violates security to run back on to an aircraft that he has already been removed from is considered a danger to himself and to others.

If they let people just remain in their seats, and this guy runs back on to the plane, with the cops chasing him, and another passenger gets hurt....what's your excuse for that?

This whole "cops should let him go" bullshit is getting out of hand. People...this is reality, and that is NOT how reality works.

In as far as being "frightened" by what the cops wear, the public needs to get over it. It's very convenient to carry the tools of your job in a vest that was designed for it. Cops carry a TON of shit, since they are basically a walking office for 10 hours a day. Get over it.
Click to expand...

You yourself have said that you haven't seen the videos and refuse to watch them.

This was hardly a situation with someone being combative. No one was in danger of being hurt. He was not a threat. He did nothing that was against the law. He was a little asian man who was on the phone with United Airlines trying to resolve this when airport security came up and fucked this dude up. Broken nose, two front teeth knocked out, concussion, in the hospital for 3 days. This terrible person was dragged from the plane bleeding and unconscious.

I know you're pro police but the police here were 100% in the wrong. The only person who is claiming otherwise is you and you are doing it while admittedly refusing to see all of the facts.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
You yourself have said that you haven't seen the videos and refuse to watch them.

This was hardly a situation with someone being combative. No one was in danger of being hurt. He was not a threat. He did nothing that was against the law. He was a little asian man who was on the phone with United Airlines trying to resolve this when airport security came up and fucked this dude up. Broken nose, two front teeth knocked out, concussion, in the hospital for 3 days. This terrible person was dragged from the plane bleeding and unconscious.

I know you're pro police but the police here were 100% in the wrong. The only person who is claiming otherwise is you and you are doing it while admittedly refusing to see all of the facts.
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He ran back on to a plane (private property), on Federal property (an airport), AFTER being removed. And you think they should.....what, exactly? You didn't answer me that.

But that's typical of the emotional Left on here: they NEVER have a reasonable answer for what should REALISTICALLY be done in cases like this involving the police. Never. They never have an answer. They ALWAYS base their logic on emotions.

I look forward to the day when I get you to defend me running naked through the Federal Building in downtown. I've always wanted to do it. Thankfully, I'll have you to defend me, so it will be okay.

And it will be okay to do because I FEEL that it's okay to do.

See how that works?
 
Jade Falcon said:
In as far as being "frightened" by what the cops wear, the public needs to get over it. It's very convenient to carry the tools of your job in a vest that was designed for it. Cops carry a TON of shit, since they are basically a walking office for 10 hours a day. Get over it.
Click to expand...
Agreed on this one. I left a security gig at a hospital because they didnt want to provide vests bht they wanted us to sit at the front door and control crowds when we had gun shot victims. Um sorry but you dont want to protect me because of image but you're willing to put my life in danger with no extra compensation. Deuces.

Cops monitor local social media and theres nothing like seeing posts from people about killing cops and shooting them for sport to make a guy a bit paranoid. Give them all the protection they need, it will lower stress and make them less likely to explode. Im not making excuses for brutality, it's wrong. But communities expect a lot from cops and dont give them much in return. Except taco bell, they give 50% off. Good shit taco bell!
 
rasheedfan2005 said:
Agreed on this one. I left a security gig at a hospital because they didnt want to provide vests bht they wanted us to sit at the front door and control crowds when we had gun shot victims. Um sorry but you dont want to protect me because of image but you're willing to put my life in danger with no extra compensation. Deuces.

Cops monitor local social media and theres nothing like seeing posts from people about killing cops and shooting them for sport to make a guy a bit paranoid. Give them all the protection they need, it will lower stress and make them less likely to explode. Im not making excuses for brutality, it's wrong. But communities expect a lot from cops and dont give them much in return. Except taco bell, they give 50% off. Good shit taco bell!
Click to expand...

This. Well said. We "get it" because of our experience.

Those that don't "get it" don't get to decide for police/corrections/security what is best for them. That's not how it works.

Otherwise, if it was up to Joe Civilian what was best for cops, they'd all be unarmed with 19th century batons as their only choice of protection.

Or, if they were real lucky....6-shot revolvers with one speed-loader.
 
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SlyPokerDog said:
Click to expand...


Dude got the fuck beat out of him because he jaywalked, and removed his coat to show he had no weapons. That cop attacked him without provocation.

All for jaywalking

 
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