Portland man wants studded tires banned

[Nate Dogg]

I am totally for this. It costs the city of Portland 40 million in road damage per year and its ODOT budget is only 11 million. Seriously the city of Portland only gets snowfall or freezing rain for 1 day out of the year. Studded tires cost $500+ anyways. Heres the report.
http://www.kgw.com/video?id=114859924&sec=547977

 

[PapaG]

Yes, we need more things to be banned!

What's a few more dead families on Highways 26 and 20 on icy winter roads? A small price to pay for the joy of banning things.

I have studless snow tires on my SUV, but does this guy realize that the people with studs don't have them on their vehicles because of the weather in Portland, but rather the mountain roads outside of Portland?

 

[Nate Dogg]

What's a few more dead families on Highways 26 and 20? A small price to pay for the joy of banning things.

That's why ODOT puts in reduced speeds, bots dots, wider shoulders etc. More money towards those. Studded tires just cause pot holes and people to hydroplane possibly in those grooves that they create.

 

[Nate Dogg]

I have studless snow tires on my SUV, but does this guy realize that the people with studs don't have them on their vehicles because of the weather in Portland, but rather the mountain roads outside of Portland?

And tire chains are an inconvenience?

 

[julius]

Yes, we need more things to be banned!

What's a few more dead families on Highways 26 and 20 on icy winter roads? A small price to pay for the joy of banning things.

I have studless snow tires on my SUV, but does this guy realize that the people with studs don't have them on their vehicles because of the weather in Portland, but rather the mountain roads outside of Portland?

I really doubt that most Portland got their studded tires for the mountain roads outside of Portland. just like most people get a 4x4 SUV or Truck and never use it as one.

 

[PapaG]

And tire chains are an inconvenience?

Have you ever gone 25 mph for 50 miles?

Yes, tire chains are a complete inconvenience, and people that have to use them frustrate me because they hold up traffic due to having to drive so slow, even if the conditions don't warrant it.

 

[PapaG]

I really doubt that most Portland got their studded tires for the mountain roads outside of Portland. just like most people get a 4x4 SUV or Truck and never use it as one.

Why do you think people get studded tires? The two families on my block who have them drive to Sunriver almost every weekend of the winter.

 

[julius]

Why do you think people get studded tires? The two families on my block who have them drive to Sunriver almost every weekend of the winter.

I'll see your anecdotal evidence and raise you another. My mother has studded tires, never goes to Sunriver, or the mountains. My father has studded tires, never goes to the mountains. One of my best friends has studded tires, never goes to the mountains. I would also venture a safe bet that most people who have studded tires don't have 4 wheel drive.

AND if it is just the people who go to the mountains (or the "majority" of the people who have studded tires use them to go to Mt Hood/Sunriver, etc), the damage they do shouldn't be that much, because truthfully, they make up a minority.

 

[PapaG]

I'll see your anecdotal evidence and raise you another. My mother has studded tires, never goes to Sunriver, or the mountains. My father has studded tires, never goes to the mountains. One of my best friends has studded tires, never goes to the mountains. I would also venture a safe bet that most people who have studded tires don't have 4 wheel drive.

AND if it is just the people who go to the mountains (or the "majority" of the people who have studded tires use them to go to Mt Hood/Sunriver, etc), the damage they do shouldn't be that much, because truthfully, they make up a minority.

Why in the world would your parents have studded tires if they don't travel?

 

[julius]

Why in the world would your parents have studded tires if they don't travel?

Well, for starters both my parents work, and are old. So for them to 'travel', it has to be usually during the summer.

But they live in a hilly part of the area, and when it does snow or gets icy they do need studs. I don't personally have them (and I'm not a fan of them). But my point remains that I don't think a lot of people who have studs have them because they go to the mountains regularly.

 

[PapaG]

Well, for starters both my parents work, and are old. So for them to 'travel', it has to be usually during the summer.

But they live in a hilly part of the area, and when it does snow or gets icy they do need studs. I don't personally have them (and I'm not a fan of them). But my point remains that I don't think a lot of people who have studs have them because they go to the mountains regularly.

Good point. The West Hills and Mt. Scott, for example, both get icy while the lower elevations in the city are just wet.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

As someone who has driven a few hundred thousand miles in East Oregon on studded tires, they dramatically increase safe driving on snow/ice. That said, so does slowing down, giving a safe distance between the car in front and stopping slowly. In other words, I have driven on what little ice/snow we get in the Portland area and have never felt the need for studs. They also have things like blizzak tires, spikes spider (used in Europe for decades)... I think the ban for Portland area makes sense.

 

[Natebishop3]

I was under the impression that they were going to be banned after this year. Am I wrong?

 

[tlongII]

Who came up with the cost of 40 million per year? And how was this calculated?

 

[Natebishop3]

Who came up with the cost of 40 million per year? And how was this calculated?

They rounded down. It was $40,000,000.33

 

[Masbee]

I am totally for this. It costs the city of Portland 40 million in road damage per year and its ODOT budget is only 11 million. Seriously the city of Portland only gets snowfall or freezing rain for 1 day out of the year. Studded tires cost $500+ anyways. Heres the report.
http://www.kgw.com/video?id=114859924&sec=547977

Government officials may be justified in establishing a ban on studs considering the significant damage they cause to the roads and the availability of alternatives.

Ironically part of the problem is government created. Studs damaging roads versus the minimal wear caused by chains (chains on semi-trucks is another story) and studless winter tires is a public policy issue. Some states charge a stud tax. The tax is too low in virtually all instances. Significantly increase the stud tax to more closely reflect the cost of damage done vs studless tires.

Use the funds raised to repair the road damage. Studless winter tires would then compare better economically when the studded tires external costs are tacked onto the purchase.

Some drivers will stick with studs and pay for their road damage. Some will switch to studless winter tires. Some, who likely didn't really need studded tires, will go with a good All-Season tire.

Why do people use studs? Because snow and ice happens. Because chains are a pain, and don't do you a bit of good with patchy ice. Because for passanger vehicles nothing gives you better traction on ice and thin slush. Because studable winter tires can be very cheap to purchase and have been around a long time. The habit is ingrained.

There is another downside to studs; they are worse than other tires in traction and braking when there isn't any ice or slush or snow. And, because folks are driving around for months in which the vast majority of the time their traction is worse than it couuld be, and what they are used to, and the fact that so many drivers on studs DON'T slow down like they should (watch them and see), I wonder if the net impact is actually fewer accidents. I am not so sure. Less accidents on ice. More accidents on dry/wet roads.

The ruts caused by studs is a good point brought up by a previous post. They can be very dangerous as I have experienced on the ruts on I-84 in the gorge a few years back (despite riding on excellent and near new SUV tires, very scary total loss of control but able to recover, guy a bit down the road not as lucky). Again, a public policy problem. Either the government simply fixes the roads faster; or raises the stud tax and uses the funds to fix the roads; or bans studs.

Surely it is ironic that studs used to prevent people from hitting ice at speed and flying into oncoming traffic create ruts in the road that hold water (plenty of that in Oregon) causing cars to hydroplane and go flying in oncoming traffic. Whoops.

 

[Natebishop3]

Traction isn't a problem for me.

 

[MARIS61]

The various ridiculous dollar amounts blamed on damage fron studs are always unsupportable by any factual data, or even logic. The weight from an 80,000 lb semi does more damage in one trip than you and your sedan with studs will do in your lifetime.

I live in an area where most people with 2-wheel drive vehicles simply could not get to work, school, the store, the doctor...without studs for 4-6 months every year. An area where several times each winter outsiders with no studs travelling through cause fatal head-ons on 97.

We have studless snow tires on our 4-wheel drive and AWD vehicles, but the front-wheel drive isn't safe to drive without studs.

 

[MARIS61]

And tire chains are an inconvenience?

Try putting them on and taking them off twice each day, plus they beat the shit out of your car and they cause far more damage to roads than aluminum studs do. Half the licensed drivers are physically incapable of the feat. Many people are killed while trying to put them on.

 

[MARIS61]

That's why ODOT puts in reduced speeds, bots dots, wider shoulders etc. More money towards those. Studded tires just cause pot holes and people to hydroplane possibly in those grooves that they create.

None of those things help when your vehicle is spinning aand sliding across oncoming traffic.

Grooves in the pavement actually prevent hydroplaning, not cause it. That's why ODOT purposely grooves pavement on parts of the highway and many bridges.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Try putting them on and taking them off twice each day, plus they beat the shit out of your car and they cause far more damage to roads than aluminum studs do. Half the licensed drivers are physically incapable of the feat. Many people are killed while trying to put them on.

So true!

 

[illmatic99]

This could all be solved by putting salt on the roads like the rest of the country, for that one icy day. I'm sure the impact on the road conditions is probably about as harmful than using these tires (if not less), and everyone would benefit rather than just the person owning the tires.

 

[Natebishop3]

This could all be solved by putting salt on the roads like the rest of the country, for that one icy day. I'm sure the impact on the road conditions is probably about as harmful than using these tires (if not less), and everyone would benefit rather than just the person owning the tires.

Or everyone could install frickin lasers on their bumpers and frickin melt the ice as they drive along

 

[Colonel Ronan]

Or everyone could install frickin lasers on their bumpers and frickin melt the ice as they drive along

Alright, Dr. Evil.

I drove from DC to Blacksburg (about a four hour drive in good conditions) during a snow storm this week in my '96 Explorer. Saw at least 20 cars spin out and roughly 50 abandoned cars on the side of the road. Nonetheless, I cruised at around 60 the whole way without any sort of hiccup. Although a semi did almost crush me against a barrier.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

This could all be solved by putting salt on the roads like the rest of the country, for that one icy day. I'm sure the impact on the road conditions is probably about as harmful than using these tires (if not less), and everyone would benefit rather than just the person owning the tires.

Salt ruins cars. The rust and corrosion... That's why they stopped using it.

 

[Natebishop3]

Alright, Dr. Evil.

I drove from DC to Blacksburg (about a four hour drive in good conditions) during a snow storm this week in my '96 Explorer. Saw at least 20 cars spin out and roughly 50 abandoned cars on the side of the road. Nonetheless, I cruised at around 60 the whole way without any sort of hiccup. Although a semi did almost crush me against a barrier.

I'm assuming there were studded tires somewhere in this discussion?

 

[Colonel Ronan]

I'm assuming there were studded tires somewhere in this discussion?

Nope, I just wanted to say something that really gave nothing to the conversation. Thank you for your time.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Nope, I just wanted to say something that really gave nothing to the conversation. Thank you for your time.

It was appropriate and in keeping with long standing S2 unwritten rules to take a thread down a rabbit trail. And I support that.

 

[44Thrilla]

We get a lot more snow here than you guys do, and I've never even heard of studded tires.

 

[porkchopexpress]

Salt ruins cars. The rust and corrosion... That's why they stopped using it.

Stop using it where? Not back east, you know where it actually snows. It does ruin cars, but most people just make a habit of taking their car to get washed ever couple of weeks or so. I lived in upstate NY for the past four years I saw not one car with studded tires. And using chains was against the law, at least they were in city. People seemed to manage. You just drive under control and give yourself enough space between you and the next car.