Possible Trade? Collison for Rudy?

[kobeownslebron]

Might as well trade Chris Paul for Greg Oden now.

 

[BGrantFan]

Oh absolutely. Portland could add a player, but then is it a good deal?

Collison played well, but so did Rudy in his rookie season. Also, and don't flame me, but would Collison have the same impact on a team with Nate and Roy? Slow pace and a SG that wants the ball in his hands and not the PG's hands

From a PG standpoint, Collison is an upgrade over Bayless, IMO. What I'm not sure about is who would replace "Good Rudy" that we saw as a rookie. Perhaps that's why there are reports of using the MLE on a guard? If Rudy really is out the door, I'd make a strong push for JJ Reddick. I think it's right about what Reddick is worth, and with Roy likely to miss 10-15 games a year, Reddick has some spot starting experience to hopefully fill in better than "Bad Rudy" did.

If "Bad Rudy" is the new Rudy, then this deal is a win for the Blazers, but a back-up SG who can actually shoot is still a necessity, IMO.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Might as well trade Chris Paul for Greg Oden now.

Deleted. It's not our fault Stern hasn't ordered a team at gun point to hand over their best player for a pile of shit. Deleted.


Hmmm, odd.

Ok. I'm not sure what I said wrong, but how about

"Go fuck yourself"
"Get the fuck out of this forum"
Fuck all L*ker fans"
"Stop trolling you L*ker fuck"


One of those should work.

 

[Mediocre Man]

From a PG standpoint, Collison is an upgrade over Bayless, IMO. What I'm not sure about is who would replace "Good Rudy" that we saw as a rookie. Perhaps that's why there are reports of using the MLE on a guard? If Rudy really is out the door, I'd make a strong push for JJ Reddick. I think it's right about what Reddick is worth, and with Roy likely to miss 10-15 games a year, Reddick has some spot starting experience to hopefully fill in better than "Bad Rudy" did.

If "Bad Rudy" is the new Rudy, then this deal is a win for the Blazers, but a back-up SG who can actually shoot is still a necessity, IMO.

Not meant to be a slam, but Bayless, IMO, will be a stud under another coach.

 

[BGrantFan]

Not meant to be a slam, but Bayless, IMO, will be a stud under another coach.

Could be, but smallish shoot-first guards usually find a niche off of the bench, and he's too short to be a long-term #1 scoring option.

If Bayless was 6'6", he'd have been a top 5 pick. He's not, so he'll need to find the right situation to maximize his talent.

 

[andalusian]

Not meant to be a slam, but Bayless, IMO, will be a stud under another coach.

Like Sergio!

 

[SheedSoNasty]

That would just be too perfect. We do that deal yesterday.

 

[toutlaw25]

I'm not the biggest Rudy fan, and you do the deal no doubt. However, I think this guy has become extremely overated. Collison is not nearly as good as everyone seems to think. His PER of 16 tells a better story, instead of the worldbeater people are making him about to be.

 

[BGrantFan]

I'm not the biggest Rudy fan, and you do the deal no doubt. However, I think this guy has become extremely overated. Collison is not nearly as good as everyone seems to think. His PER of 16 tells a better story, instead of the worldbeater people are making him about to be.

That's a plus for Collison, IMO.

PER for other PGs as rookies.

Deron Williams 12.4 (17.1 in year 2)
Chris Paul 22.1 (career PER of 25.6)
Tony Parker 11.1 (16.5 year 2, 15.7 year 3)
Devin Harris 14.7 (17.4 year 2, 16.0 last season)
Andre Miller 17.9 (career PER of 18.0. One of few PGs to be at ceiling as a rookie)
Rajon Rondo 13.1 (15.6 year two)
Chauncey Billup 13.6 (Y2 15.1, Y3 10.5, Y4 14.1, Y5 17.6)
Steve Nash 10.8 (Y215.6, Y3 10.9, Y4 13.5, Y5 19.6)
Jason Kidd 15.1 (Y2 17.8, Y3 16.9, Y4 16.4, Y5 22.5)


PG is a difficult position to step into and play at a peak level. Outside of Andre Miller, the list above gives me reason to believe that Collison is better as a rookie than many of the game's best PGs were, and I see now reason why he can't become an 18-21 PER player as he improves his knowledge of the NBA game.

 

[Idog1976]

I'm not the biggest Rudy fan, and you do the deal no doubt. However, I think this guy has become extremely overated. Collison is not nearly as good as everyone seems to think. His PER of 16 tells a better story, instead of the worldbeater people are making him about to be.

We don't need a world beater at PG if Oden and Roy are healthy (yeah, I know). We just need a guy who can drain the three, take it to the hole, distribute adequately and most importantly defend the point.

 

[hasoos]

I'm not the biggest Rudy fan, and you do the deal no doubt. However, I think this guy has become extremely overated. Collison is not nearly as good as everyone seems to think. His PER of 16 tells a better story, instead of the worldbeater people are making him about to be.

I really don't care about his PER rating. But I do care about his win loss record, which was pretty bad while he was in control. The thing is, he was a rookie. He performed pretty damn well for a rookie, and I wouldn't necessarily expect him to figure out the whole winning thing right away with so many young players on the floor for the Hornets last year.

I also don't think Rudy would be any happier in New Orleans playing behind Marcus Thornton. But I don't really give a shit what makes Rudy happy, and would even care less when he is gone.

 

[Idog1976]

I just got a novel idea and decided to fact check rather then talk out my ass. Collison's Drtg is worse then Miller. I thought he was a good defender? Is it that he played with Peja a lot or can anyone explain that?

 

[RR7]

I just got a novel idea and decided to fact check rather then talk out my ass. Collison's Drtg is worse then Miller. I thought he was a good defender? Is it that he played with Peja a lot or can anyone explain that?

Andre Miller's was better than Chris Paul. A lot depends on team defense.

 

[BGrantFan]

I just got a novel idea and decided to fact check rather then talk out my ass. Collison's Drtg is worse then Miller. I thought he was a good defender? Is it that he played with Peja a lot or can anyone explain that?

Dunno. Maybe he wasn't playing as much with Okafor when Paul was healthy? Collison's 112 is 1.3 points higher than the team rating.

Miller's Drtg of 108 was 0.9 higher than the team rating.

Kind of a wash to some degree.

Plus, Miller's Drtg of 120 in the playoffs with an Ortg of 102 simply won't do.

Steve Blake had a Drtg of 114 when Aaron Brooks supposedly torched him in 2009, but at least he made up for it with an Ortg of 124.

 

[Idog1976]

Andre Miller's was better than Chris Paul. A lot depends on team defense.

OK that makes me feel better. Sometimes I feel like you post here just to give me ALL THE FREAKING INFO I DON'T HAVE. No seriously, half my questions at least are answered by you and well I might add. Thanks.

 

[MickZagger]

Funny how some UCLA players look so ordinary at UCLA and then come out looking much better in the pros.

Its the slow down system that they run there. Recruits are starting to realize this and many player have transferred away.

 

[hasoos]

Andre Miller's was better than Chris Paul. A lot depends on team defense.

Actually if you want to consider it correctly, he was better than Chris Paul in a year where Chris Paul was injured a lot of the year. Miller had more shot blocking backing him up, and had a more experience squad to work with.

 

[Further]

I love the idea of getting Collison but don't see this trade as anything NO would do. I know that NO wants to shed salary and I think getting Collison starts there. Taking on Okafor (who is a decent player with a huge contract) would allow us to pillage NO for anyone not named Paul or West. the Question is, does Paul Allen really want to take on that nasty contract. There are 20 ways to make the trade work IF the Blazers are willing to take EO. Otherwise, I expect NO to keep looking for a Collison taker until they find a team willing to take EO.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Collison coming out of the draft was one of my favorites, though I didn't think he go as early as 16. He was a quintessential KP player, I thought.

He's quick, yetsmall, and doesn't measure out that great. He's a pedigreed 4-yr player in a big conference with (iirc) 3 Final Four experience. He focused on D and improved his 3pt shot. I didn't think he'd be nearly as explosive on offense as he was last year.

 

[axs88]

Plus, Miller's Drtg of 120 in the playoffs with an Ortg of 102 simply won't do.

I'd attribute it to the fact that we won two close games and got blown out in 3 (?).

 

[BGrantFan]

I'd attribute it to the fact that we won two close games and got blown out in 3 (?).

Isn't that close to what happened against Houston in 2009, in at least 2 games? Blake ended up +10 in Ortg/Drtg in that series and still had that 124 for the series on offense. Miller's -18 is brutal and didn't get it done, just like Blake didn't get it done in 2009. I understand that Grant Hill shut him down offensively, but Steve Nash had an Ortg of 116 (+1) for the series, and Aaron Brooks had an Ortg of 116 ( +7 over Drtg) in 2009.

Both PGs simply don't seem to have the defensive chops to succeed in the playoffs.

 

[Minstrel]

Could be, but smallish shoot-first guards usually find a niche off of the bench

Generally, because if they play alongside a normal sized point guard, neither can properly defend a normal sized shooting guard. However, that's not an issue in Portland, because he'd play alongside Roy. Roy would defend shooting guards and Bayless would defend point guards. As long as the team has enough total team passing, I don't think they need a pure passer from the guard who plays alongside Roy. Roy is going to direct traffic anyway, short of a superstar point guard like Chris Paul coming in.

and he's too short to be a long-term #1 scoring option.

In Portland, he could be an amazing #3/4 scorer, behind Roy, Oden and perhaps Aldridge.

So, I agree that Bayless wouldn't fit really well into a lot of situations, but he might fit quite well in Portland. As far as I'm concerned, as goes his shot, so goes his starting future in Portland. If he can build on his improved shooting and become reasonably consistent from the perimeter, he'll be a great starter alongside Roy, IMO. Potentially even better than Collison, because a lot of Collison's value would be wasted alongside a shooting guard who likes to (and can) run the offense.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

I'm willing to bet this, if real, was a proposal from the Blazers.

 

[brsinepyce]

I would shit myself out of pure joy of this happened.

 

[the ob]

I would love this but it is never going to happen. I would be happy to eat my words.....

 

[the ob]

I would shit myself out of pure joy of this happened.

agree

 

[BGrantFan]

I would shit myself out of pure joy of this happened.

You might want to see a neurologist. Seems your emotional response wiring may be a bit out of whack.