Quick on 95.5

[MickZagger]

I said fellow agitator.

Yes, you fit the label, as do I.

Gotcha.

 

[Natebishop3]

Huh? Link, please. NateBishop's list seems to be a lot of his own opinion, versus what Roy has actually said or done. Plus, as previously posted, everything he listed is negative, which waves the "disregard this mod's opinion because he is clearly biased" flag in my face.

My point is, this isn't Roy's first time complaining to the media or stirring the pot, and some fans are tired of it. It was one thing when he was an All-Star caliber player, but now he's just an overpaid, injured, role player.

Which one of those points were my own opinion? They were all reported in the Oregonian.

Why would I list positives? It wasn't a timeline of his career. It was a list of all the times I can think of where he has complained to the media, or has used his status as the cornerstone of the franchise to influence the team.

I have no idea what my mod status has to do with my posts about the team.

BTW you forgot your patented emoticon.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

My point is, this isn't Roy's first time complaining to the media or stirring the pot, and some fans are tired of it. It was one thing when he was an All-Star caliber player, but now he's just an overpaid, injured, role player.

So you do not think playing next to Miller has made any difference in his statistical output? Do you have access to his medical records?

I do not have a problem with what Roy as said now and in the past. It is up to Nate and Cho to find something that works.

 

[Chuck Taylor]

Huh? Link, please. NateBishop's list seems to be a lot of his own opinion, versus what Roy has actually said or done. Plus, as previously posted, everything he listed is negative, which waves the "disregard this mod's opinion because he is clearly biased" flag in my face.

I'm not going to search through old archives to find a link, but Roy definitely had a problem with Oden's new place in the offense. I remember him saying, repeatedly, that he wanted it to be more like last year (which is now 2 years ago) where he and L.A. ran pick & rolls much of the game. He also almost never passed the ball into Oden on the post....I remember wondering how big of a problem it would become....but Oden couldn't stay healthy long enough for it to amount to too much.

 

[Nikolokolus]

So you do not think playing next to Miller has made any difference in his statistical output? Do you have access to his medical records?

We don't need his medical records we already have his basketball "records" from last year when he and Miller played together plenty. The only difference between this year and last year are him looking much more hobbled and multiple comments from Brandon about his knees giving him trouble ... and he did have another knee surgery in April.

I do not have a problem with what Roy as said now and in the past. It is up to Nate and Cho to find something that works.

True nuff, but Roy has to be willing to adapt and modify his game given the new set of realities he's facing with the shape his body is in. And really no matter how "honest" and open he's being, it's really bad form to throw your teammates under the bus with all of this passive aggressive nonsense he's spewing to the press; that should never become public knowledge.

 

[oldmangrouch]

True nuff, but Roy has to be willing to adapt and modify his game given the new set of realities he's facing with the shape his body is in. And really no matter how "honest" and open he's being, it's really bad form to throw your teammates under the bus with all of this passive aggressive nonsense he's spewing to the press; that should never become public knowledge.

Bingo.

This isn't a case of fans turning on a good player because the team lost in the first round. This is a guy who is no longer a franchise player....and until he "gets it", he is going to hold the team back.

I know Roy has done some good things for this franchise, and it sounds cold to say that his feelings/ego don't matter - but what is the alternative?

 

[Minstrel]

Roy has done good things for the franchise and has been more than amply rewarded for them. Even if we stipulate that Roy was underpaid until this season, the contract extension will more than remedy that considering the Blazers are unlikely to get anything like value for the money going forward.

I don't begrudge Roy the money he'll be getting, but I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that Roy has "done so much for the franchise" as though he did it out of generosity and the franchise or fans owe him anything. Roy played some great basketball for the team and will be a millionaire many times over due to that. It's absolutely fair to judge him entirely by what he is now...both on the court and off. Not by what he once was or did.

 

[Driew]

I don't begrudge Roy the money he'll be getting, but I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that Roy has "done so much for the franchise" as though he did it out of generosity and the franchise or fans owe him anything. Roy played some great basketball for the team and will be a millionaire many times over due to that. It's absolutely fair to judge him entirely by what he is now...both on the court and off. Not by what he once was or did.

AMEN Brotha! Amen.

 

[Driew]

Double post--sorry! But just read this great post from Ben at Blazersedge about Roy coming off the bench. After reading it I can understand the reluctance to try it out...I still feel like it could work. I mean we played pretty well when Roy wasn't playing for that week or so right?

Here's the story

 

[LittleAlex]

Two things:

One, Portland fans (and fans in general) tend to want more production from players based on the amount of money they receive.
When a player plays at a high level, gets a huge deal, then plays worse then before you can't help but wonder if they just don't care as much now that they got paid.
I don't know if this is the case with B-Roy or not (I actually doubt it is) but it still crosses peoples minds.

Two, the Portland media has always tried to fuck this team over.
I can remember columns from Dwight Jaynes telling everyone how fucking lazy Drexler was or how stupid the coach was (pick which ever coach you want).
My default assumption is that any quote from any player you can find in the Oregonian is both edited AND taken out of context in order to either stir the pot or tarnish a players reputation.

Long story short, B-Roy is in a position where people will naturally doubt him to some degree and J-Quick and the Gang smell blood on the water.

I don't give Quick much credence at the best of times.
Why would I do so know that the team is trending downward towards the lottery?

 

[craigehlo]

Two, the Portland media has always tried to fuck this team over.

Some fans tend to think the media has it in for their favorite teams or players when a story is published they disagree with. Jason Quick is simply asking the same questions that a lot of fans want to know. If Roy looks bad answering them, it's on Roy and nobody else. Quick wasn't asking leading questions, just some general ones. Roy took it entirely upon himself to throw the team, coach and organization under the bus.

 

[PapaG]

If fans expect players to play up to their contract, then shouldn't the inverse be true as well? Meaning that Roy was a bargain his first 4 years in the league, and as such, has built up 4 years of potentially underperforming on a bad contract. I certainly don't recall many posters (if any) saying what a great deal it was to have Roy playing like an All-Star while on a league-mandated rookie contract. Yet many who kept quiet in those days now bash Roy in an anger that really does not seem proportional, or even healthy, if I may go that far, to the reality of the situation. The amount of money that Roy made in the past was a non-issue on this board and on BBF; making it an issue now seems hypocritical.

 

[LittleAlex]

If fans expect players to play up to their contract, then shouldn't the inverse be true as well? Meaning that Roy was a bargain his first 4 years in the league, and as such, has built up 4 years of potentially underperforming on a bad contract. I certainly don't recall many posters (if any) saying what a great deal it was to have Roy playing like an All-Star while on a league-mandated rookie contract. Yet many who kept quiet in those days now bash Roy in an anger that really does not seem proportional, or even healthy, if I may go that far, to the reality of the situation. The amount of money that Roy made in the past was a non-issue on this board and on BBF; making it an issue now seems hypocritical.

I never said this was rational behavior.
It's far from it.

Unfortunately here on Earth humans tend towards irrational behavior far more then they do rational.

Yes, B-Roy was a huge fucking bargin when he was playing at an All-Star level under his rookie contract.
The same way Batum at this point is worth keeping because he makes so little money right now the team can afford to wait out his ups and downs.

As for being hypocritical, no doubt.
Nearly everyone has been a hypocrit from time to time so this isn't a surprise either.

 

[LittleAlex]

Some fans tend to think the media has it in for their favorite teams or players when a story is published they disagree with. Jason Quick is simply asking the same questions that a lot of fans want to know. If Roy looks bad answering them, it's on Roy and nobody else. Quick wasn't asking leading questions, just some general ones. Roy took it entirely upon himself to throw the team, coach and organization under the bus.

I was referring to a long standing trend in Portland sports writting to find the worst to say about the Blazers.

It's been going on for at least 30 years and will continue on for the next 30 if the team remains in Portland.

This is in part due to the Blazers really being the only game in town as far as major league sports are concerned.
If Portland had a NFL team, an MLB or even a NHL team they could spread the ugly rumors and innuendo around.

They are in the business of selling papers.
A sad fact of life is that negativity sells way better the positivity.
Thus the local media have always been fairly negative about the team.


It becomes absurdly clear if you compare the writting in the Columbian to the writting in the Oregonian.

 

[Ed O]

If fans expect players to play up to their contract, then shouldn't the inverse be true as well? Meaning that Roy was a bargain his first 4 years in the league, and as such, has built up 4 years of potentially underperforming on a bad contract. I certainly don't recall many posters (if any) saying what a great deal it was to have Roy playing like an All-Star while on a league-mandated rookie contract. Yet many who kept quiet in those days now bash Roy in an anger that really does not seem proportional, or even healthy, if I may go that far, to the reality of the situation. The amount of money that Roy made in the past was a non-issue on this board and on BBF; making it an issue now seems hypocritical.

Every young all-star is on a rookie contract. Roy was no different.

Not every young all-star becomes nearly worthless immediately after signing a max (or near-max) deal.

Fans being upset at Roy (personally) doesn't help change anything, of course, but his contract is definitely worthy of ire.

Ed O.

 

[illmatic99]

Quick didn't "find the worst thing possible" to say about the Blazers. Roy pretty much said it himself. Quick even expressed on the radio, that even if it's his job to find out everything, he wished that Roy would be more discrete. Sorta weird position for him to be in.

 

[PapaG]

I never said this was rational behavior.
It's far from it.

Unfortunately here on Earth humans tend towards irrational behavior far more then they do rational.

Yes, B-Roy was a huge fucking bargin when he was playing at an All-Star level under his rookie contract.
The same way Batum at this point is worth keeping because he makes so little money right now the team can afford to wait out his ups and downs.

As for being hypocritical, no doubt.
Nearly everyone has been a hypocrit from time to time so this isn't a surprise either.

I understand and agree with your point on how we all are hypocrites. My specific criticism of some of the Roy bashing, though, is that if fans are going to whine about money, then it would seem to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Meaning that solely using criticisms of a player based on his large contract is going to always mean that a person has something to be negative about. I see a lot of $80 million!!! posts, and in doing so, those people are setting themselves up for 5 long years. I just wonder what the point is of even watching the team, if everything is viewed through a financial prism.

Anyhow, I digress...

 

[PapaG]

Every young all-star is on a rookie contract. Roy was no different.

Not every young all-star becomes nearly worthless immediately after signing a max (or near-max) deal.

Fans being upset at Roy (personally) doesn't help change anything, of course, but his contract is definitely worthy of ire.


Ed O.

I disagree, so it isn't "definitely" worthy of ire. Unless, of course, you were talking about your own opinion, and I misunderstood the bolded phrase.

 

[PapaG]

Quick didn't "find the worst thing possible" to say about the Blazers. Roy pretty much said it himself. Quick even expressed on the radio, that even if it's his job to find out everything, he wished that Roy would be more discrete. Sorta weird position for him to be in.

Quick also said he reads boards like this one, and that if posters bashing Roy knew him personally, they would post some of the things they post. Also, he mentioned more than once how much he likes Roy as a person. It's a situation where an All-Star player has lost a step, at least temporarily, and he also isn't being utilized to the best of his abilities.

 

[Natebishop3]

If fans expect players to play up to their contract, then shouldn't the inverse be true as well? Meaning that Roy was a bargain his first 4 years in the league, and as such, has built up 4 years of potentially underperforming on a bad contract. I certainly don't recall many posters (if any) saying what a great deal it was to have Roy playing like an All-Star while on a league-mandated rookie contract. Yet many who kept quiet in those days now bash Roy in an anger that really does not seem proportional, or even healthy, if I may go that far, to the reality of the situation. The amount of money that Roy made in the past was a non-issue on this board and on BBF; making it an issue now seems hypocritical.

My issue is with Roy's attitude, not with his contract. This team has always had overpaid players. It's a fact of life in the NBA. He's obviously more valuable to the team than Raef LaFrentz was, and RL was making bank.

With that said, I have been very disappointed in Roy since the beginning of last season. He is establishing himself as a complainer, and I don't think it's very indicative of a team leader or the cornerstone of the franchise.

 

[PapaG]

My issue is with Roy's attitude, not with his contract. This team has always had overpaid players. It's a fact of life in the NBA. He's obviously more valuable to the team than Raef LaFrentz was, and RL was making bank.

With that said, I have been very disappointed in Roy since the beginning of last season. He is establishing himself as a complainer, and I don't think it's very indicative of a team leader or the cornerstone of the franchise.

Yeah, I understand that argument, and I somewhat agree with it. The money thing, though, I just don't get. I find it hard to blame Roy for signing a contract that was offered to him. Compounding this line of criticism are fans like the callers to BFT that I referenced earlier in this thread. Those who either don't know the rules (you can't renegotiate a contract to a lower salary, as per the CBA), or don't apparently watch the team player (the guy who said that Houston shut down Roy in the 2009 playoffs). You keep up on the team and are knowledgeable; most of the callers I hear offering "solutions" to the Roy situation are obviously ignorant in the working of the NBA.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah, I understand that argument, and I somewhat agree with it. The money thing, though, I just don't get. I find it hard to blame Roy for signing a contract that was offered to him. Compounding this line of criticism are fans like the callers to BFT that I referenced earlier in this thread. Those who either don't know the rules (you can't renegotiate a contract to a lower salary, as per the CBA), or don't apparently watch the team player (the guy who said that Houston shut down Roy in the 2009 playoffs). You keep up on the team and are knowledgeable; most of the callers I hear offering "solutions" to the Roy situation are obviously ignorant in the working of the NBA.

There's only one "Roy solution" that I can think of. He accepts that he isn't the player he was and adapts his game, because he can't be traded and I don't see the team accommodating his demands anymore.

 

[Pinwheel1]

There's only one "Roy solution" that I can think of. He accepts that he isn't the player he was and adapts his game, because he can't be traded and I don't see the team accommodating his demands anymore.

I agree with this. It is the only solution.

 

[Natebishop3]

Quick also said he reads boards like this one, and that if posters bashing Roy knew him personally, they would post some of the things they post. Also, he mentioned more than once how much he likes Roy as a person. It's a situation where an All-Star player has lost a step, at least temporarily, and he also isn't being utilized to the best of his abilities.

But it isn't personal... it's about the game of basketball, which is his career of choice. If they choose to have a career in the public eye, they must expect to get public scrutiny. That's part of the deal. They get fame and fortune, but they also get criticized for their flaws and mistakes. When I was writing for a living, I expected people to criticize my work. I expected people to hate my opinions. I knew I had to have thick skin. It has nothing to do with my personality or my life away from the career I choose. If my writing sucks, I expect people to tell me that my writing sucks.

I'd also like to point out that some of the nicest guys in the locker room are the guys that get zero PT. That doesn't mean they suck any less.

 

[PapaG]

There's only one "Roy solution" that I can think of. He accepts that he isn't the player he was and adapts his game, because he can't be traded and I don't see the team accommodating his demands anymore.

How does he adapt his game, though? He's not going to be able to run through screens. Hell, he didn't want to do that when he was healthy. Why would he be in constant motion on two bad knees? The most successful adaptation for him may be to run even more ISOs or post-ups, given his limited explosiveness. Now that would be worth trying, if only for the reaction on this board.

 

[Natebishop3]

How does he adapt his game, though? He's not going to be able to run through screens. Hell, he didn't want to do that when he was healthy. Why would he be in constant motion on two bad knees? The most successful adaptation for him may be to run even more ISOs or post-ups, given his limited explosiveness. Now that would be worth trying, if only for the reaction on this board.

I think I've actually suggested that a while back... I think Roy needs to develop a post up game. Jordan did it. Kobe did it. Carter did it. I think he needs to work on his turn-around-jumper and his fade-away. I would never expect Roy to run off screens because that's just really not his game, or his style, but he needs to figure out a different way to get separation so he can shoot. A lot of star players have to adapt their games as they get older, Roy is just going to have to do it much sooner than most.

 

[RR7]

Roy has had a good post up game since his rookie year. I don't think he needs to develop one. Fine tune it, sure. But they need to actually use it. Of course, the same issue is present with his penetrations. What's to stop a second guard from sagging into a double team?

 

[PapaG]

Roy has had a good post up game since his rookie year. I don't think he needs to develop one. Fine tune it, sure. But they need to actually use it. Of course, the same issue is present with his penetrations. What's to stop a second guard from sagging into a double team?

Nothing, at least with a PG that can't shoot. Which brings us back to Roy's thoughts on the PG. People may not like how Roy expressed it, but I do find merit in the actual opinion.

 

[RR7]

I mean, I agree, I don't care for how he expressed it. But I agree to an extent with the premise of his complaint.

 

[Pinwheel1]

How does he adapt his game, though? He's not going to be able to run through screens. Hell, he didn't want to do that when he was healthy. Why would he be in constant motion on two bad knees? The most successful adaptation for him may be to run even more ISOs or post-ups, given his limited explosiveness. Now that would be worth trying, if only for the reaction on this board.

He just needs to watch the Phoenix game over and over. One dribble and shoot. What he can't do, and this has very little to do with his knees (IMO) is run the offense. He was never "the PG of the future" even when he was at his best.(Do we all remember the Philly game?) Who ever is the PG needs to run the team. Roy is a SG who can pass, but not a SG that can dribble through traffic. Giving him more room by spreading the floor is not the answer.

He can adapt his game and still be a 20+ a night scorer. He just has to finally realize what it is going to take. Miller may not be the perfect back court mate (I think a big time scoring PG is our only solution to get to the next level) but he needs to stop blaming others and start evolving his game. And no more "behind the back" dribble in traffic. They have all seen that move by now.