Quick on Game

[SpanishFly]

This just in: Orlando has announced that Marcin Gortat has been named the starting center for the Magic. Dwight Howard will not start to strengthen the bench.

Hey Maxie, Nate's really a bonehead about this if true. Will he last the season if this is true and persists? I think PA will be calling him soon!

 

[rocketeer]

The question is, what coach would announce his starting lineup two weeks before the season actually starts... In fact, what coach would announce who gets the starting point guard position days after signing a bonafide starting PG and weeks away from training camp?

the real questions are who the fuck cares and why do you care? announcing the starting lineup right now is meaningless. preseason games mean nothing and as we saw last year, he can decide to change the lineup again before opening night. this is nothing to complain about at this point. if it actually happens, fine, bitch about it if you think it's a bad decision. but until that actually is the starting lineup, there's no reason to go crazy about it.

 

[hasoos]

Is this an argument for starting Greg Oden?

I love the fact we got Greg on this team and I hope he will prove everyone that doubted him as the #1 pick as wrong - but given his health history - this sounds like an argument to bring him from the bench...

It was a retort to the post above it. But I suppose you could argue that if you wanted, and have a valid point. Until Greg proves he is healthy, they won't depend on him in the starting unit would be a valid argument. Seems very straight forward. But I still don't think it is the right thing to do to a player who has worked hard to try to right the ship.

 

[rocketeer]

This just in: Orlando has announced that Marcin Gortat has been named the starting center for the Magic. Dwight Howard will not start to strengthen the bench.

that would be comparable to benching roy for rudy, not oden for joel.

 

[yakbladder]

So for those of you who want Miller and Oden in the starting lineup...since we've already seen Roy, LMA, and Miller present "subtle" complaints about touches and being a starter and all that jazz, what do you do when they are all in the lineup and nobody gets what they feel are enough shots?

One big advantage we had last year was Roy did enough that he was respected by the league and got "the calls" which is a BS system to begin with, but it did work in our favor. I can understand perhaps bringing Oden in because he may actually get some calls this year, but Miller? Webster? Nah..I'd rather have a little firepower on the bench.

 

[RR7]

So for those of you who want Miller and Oden in the starting lineup...since we've already seen Roy, LMA, and Miller present "subtle" complaints about touches and being a starter and all that jazz, what do you do when they are all in the lineup and nobody gets what they feel are enough shots?

One big advantage we had last year was Roy did enough that he was respected by the league and got "the calls" which is a BS system to begin with, but it did work in our favor. I can understand perhaps bringing Oden in because he may actually get some calls this year, but Miller? Webster? Nah..I'd rather have a little firepower on the bench.

Likewise, what do you do when your stud C starts complaining because he did everything asked of him, outplayed his counterpart, and is still being sent to the bench? What do you do when your big free agent signing in a year you looked to for the past two years to add a big name in the offseason complains because you say he doesn't fit with the starting unit, or rather, two star players, when you knew what sort of player he was when you signed him to his deal? And that he was supposedly competing for a job he had no shot of winning?
What do you do when players on the bench see this as well?
What do you do when Travis Outlaw notices, in his contract season, that his role as primary scorer off the bench just went away, because Miller and Oden are now alongside him? That you tell him we want you on the bench for your firepower, but now, his firepower off the bench isn't needed, because you have Miller, Rudy, and Oden. In a contract year, he can get upset about that, and disrupt chemistry?

 

[alex42083]

FWIW, tonight's starters at Utah:

PG Blake
SG Webster
SF Batum or Udoka
PF Aldridge
C Przybilla

No Roy or Rudy tonight.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/10/looking_for_defense_and_cohesi.html

 

[Nikolokolus]

FWIW, tonight's starters at Utah:

PG Blake
SG Webster
SF Batum or Udoka
PF Aldridge
C Przybilla

No Roy or Rudy tonight.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/10/looking_for_defense_and_cohesi.html

I'm glad I can't catch the game tonight

 

[LittleAlex]

What made Nate do this was the 3rd quarter last night. Blake, Rudy, Nic, Travis and Pryz got KILLED!!!!!!!!!!

This is partly because Blake and Pryz couldn't score by themselves in a whore house.

This is not a good reason to hamstring the starting unit.

Blake I get, but leaving Oden on the bench is absolutely unforgivable. What message are you sending to Oden with this bullshit.

"Hey kid, I know you outplayed the other guy by a mile but level of play doesn't matter. Yeah, I know I said it did but haven't you learned by now not to trust a thing I say.

I mean, I DID say we would run more this year."

 

[andalusian]

I'm glad I can't catch the game tonight

I am afraid that we will not make the pre-season playoffs with this line.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

This just in: Orlando has announced that Marcin Gortat has been named the starting center for the Magic. Dwight Howard will not start to strengthen the bench.

If Van Gundy had the balls to do that, that would be a great move! Gortat is a really good player. The Magic's record with him starting in the playoffs and no Dwight was 100%. Have you checked his numbers lately?

Of course, if you're trying to say that this is analogous to the Blazers' situation, then you'd have to say something like Vince Carter not starting. Because Howard is their best player so he's analogous to Roy. Who is starting.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Likewise, what do you do when your stud C starts complaining because he did everything asked of him, outplayed his counterpart, and is still being sent to the bench?

Point out to him that he's still getting 30 mpg, dominating his competition, earning an all-star nod, and playing for a likely division champion and conference finals participant, and then tell him to shut up and do his job.

What do you do when your big free agent signing in a year you looked to for the past two years to add a big name in the offseason complains because you say he doesn't fit with the starting unit, or rather, two star players, when you knew what sort of player he was when you signed him to his deal? And that he was supposedly competing for a job he had no shot of winning?

Tell him that he is playing more (and more important) minutes at his position than his counterpart, and that he is getting a lot of the credit for the emergence of the team's franchise center, and that he should be happy to be on the best TEAM of his career.

What do you do when players on the bench see this as well?

Tell them that there's a very obvious reason that they are reserves, and that if individual accolades are of greater import to them than team success, then their services would likely be greatly appreciated in Sacramento, Minnesota, or Milwaukee.

What do you do when Travis Outlaw notices, in his contract season, that his role as primary scorer off the bench just went away, because Miller and Oden are now alongside him? That you tell him we want you on the bench for your firepower, but now, his firepower off the bench isn't needed, because you have Miller, Rudy, and Oden. In a contract year, he can get upset about that, and disrupt chemistry?

Point out to him that if he were a more well-rounded player, he wouldn't have been pigeon-holed into the "off-the-bench-scorer" role in the first place, and that his situation is his own fault.

 

[LittleAlex]

After seeing the team struggle with teams like the Kings, Clippers, and Suns this preseason, I'd probably stick with last year's line-up as well for now.

I am surprised that Oden isn't in the starting line-up, however. That sticks out to me. He's clearly been the most consistent player in the 4 exhibition games.

This.

In the first half last night Oden was the best player on the floor for Portland by far. In the second half he never touched the ball since Miller was dead set on tossing it in the air himself.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

RAMBO...

RABPB...

It doesn't quite roll off the tongue as well.

But that's just me...

 

[Rastapopoulos]

This is not a good reason to hamstring the starting unit.

Are you saying that a lineup that includes Roy, Aldridge, Batum, and perhaps the best defensive center in the league (and certainly on the Blazers) is "hamstrung"? Seriously?

And Blake is just in there because he works better with our best player and Miller doesn't.

Blake I get, but leaving Oden on the bench is absolutely unforgivable.

Maybe by you. But if you forgive Blake, then you're accepting Miller coming off the bench. So you might as well have Oden there, because he works so well with Miller.

What message are you sending to Oden with this bullshit.

"I'm going to play the lineups that work, no matter the egos and draft positions"? "Keep working on the pick-setting until you're in Joel's league"?

 

[LittleAlex]

Point out to him that he's still getting 30 mpg, dominating his competition, earning an all-star nod, and playing for a likely division champion and conference finals participant, and then tell him to shut up and do his job.

How do you know he will play that much? Maybe Nate likes Joel so much he only plays Oden 22 minutes a night? That's a pretty high number for a bench player, after all.

All we know for sure is that the guy who earned the starting job didn't get the starting job. Everything else is conjecture.

Since this goes against everything Nate said going into camp the only conclusion I can come to is that Nate decided on this long before camp and never had any intention of starting Oden.

If you are going to say "the players are going to determine the starters" shouldn't you actually follow through on it?

Not if your Nate you don't.

 

[LittleAlex]

Are you saying that a lineup that includes Roy, Aldridge, Batum, and perhaps the best defensive center in the league (and certainly on the Blazers) is "hamstrung"? Seriously?

Yup. Joel is good, but he isn't an offensive threat and doesn't draw fouls. He simply isn't as good as Oden right now.

And Blake is just in there because he works better with our best player and Miller doesn't.

I did say I could see Blake starting. I don't like it, but it makes some sort of sense.

Maybe by you. But if you forgive Blake, then you're accepting Miller coming off the bench. So you might as well have Oden there, because he works so well with Miller.

Why? Miller hasn't exactly player fantastic. Nash ate both Miller and Blake's lunch last night, then give them both a wedgie. Miller didn't earn the spot by completely eclipsing his competition. Oden did. Big difference.

"I'm going to play the lineups that work, no matter the egos and draft positions"? "Keep working on the pick-setting until you're in Joel's league"?

Once again, this line fell behind in the first quarter 54% of the time last season. Is that how you define working?

As for picks, Oden does just fine. As an added bonus he can roll to the hoop and have a reasonable chance of score. "Thumbs" Joel can't.

 

[cdub503]

I'll believe it when I see it

 

[rocketeer]

You can point to other players all you want. Oden needs to start. Period. This isn't rocket science. This is a classic over-thinking-the-situation by Nate.

i agree with you that oden should be starting. if the season actually starts with oden not being the starter, i think it will be a mistake. but at this point during the preseason with the season not starting for two more weeks, it's meaningless. the starting lineups in these games and announced opening day lineups are meaningless.

i'll believe oden isn't the starter at tip off of game one of the regular season if he isn't on the court.

 

[alex42083]

Quick just said on The Game that Nate was disappointed in Travis' play in the second half last night that he might even go with Juwan Howard as the backup PF for some minutes.

 

[Natebishop3]

Big surprise.... HCP taking the "company line". Have you EVER criticized the organization HCP? Or are you afraid of getting reprimanded? There is no way you can defend this. Greg deserves to start. He busted his ass in the offseason. He has been amazing so far. Benching him sends the wrong fucking message.

 

[MIXUM]

asking hcp to be negative is like asking wheels to bash roy during a broadcast.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I can. Manu is hurt a lot of the time so you can't depend on him for starting unit quality.

Ah yes, the insight of hasoos. Tell me, do the Blazers still have 4 pgs better than Rajon Rondo?

 

[noknobs]

Point out to him that he's still getting 30 mpg, dominating his competition, earning an all-star nod, and playing for a likely division champion and conference finals participant,

If he's doing all that, why not just start him? I think we can all agree that the three cornerstones of the team are Roy, Aldridge, and Oden. So it stands to reason that if they are to have any real success down the line, the three of them are going to need to learn how to play with each other and I think they're more than able to do that if they actually get to play with each other. Nate's only going to stunt their growth the longer he refuses to just let them play together as starters. Let them develop the chemistry. I don't feel like I'm going out on a limb here... I hope Nate snaps out of this seizure he's having before he destroys us all!

the real questions are who the fuck cares and why do you care? announcing the starting lineup right now is meaningless. preseason games mean nothing and as we saw last year, he can decide to change the lineup again before opening night....

Then why did Nate do it? What is he hoping to accomplish by saying this now, especially when his choice is so controversial/retarded?

I agree we should wait to get pissed if and when it actually does happen, but the fact remains Nate just declared that Joel would start over him on opening night... So either way, what good can come from such a declaration?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Quick just said on The Game that Nate was disappointed in Travis' play in the second half last night that he might even go with Juwan Howard as the backup PF for some minutes.

LOL. Like performance has anything to do with it. I'm surprised Nate didn't move him to the first unit, so the second unit could be even stronger.

 

[MIXUM]

DID QUICK REALLY SAY THAT NATE IS LEANING TORWARDS IME GETTING MORE PLAYING TIME THEN WEBSTER???????

I did not hear this... did anyone hear that?

If so... nate is already a joke.... but this would be travesty.

 

[oldmangrouch]

So for those of you who want Miller and Oden in the starting lineup...since we've already seen Roy, LMA, and Miller present "subtle" complaints about touches and being a starter and all that jazz, what do you do when they are all in the lineup and nobody gets what they feel are enough shots?

One big advantage we had last year was Roy did enough that he was respected by the league and got "the calls" which is a BS system to begin with, but it did work in our favor. I can understand perhaps bringing Oden in because he may actually get some calls this year, but Miller? Webster? Nah..I'd rather have a little firepower on the bench.

The problem with this argument, is that you are putting Oden on the floor with Rudy, Webster, and Outlaw - 3 guys who make their living shooting the ball from the perimeter. Playing with those 3 turns Oden into Joel 2.0. How does that aid either his development or the future of the team?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Yup. Joel is good, but he isn't an offensive threat and doesn't draw fouls. He simply isn't as good as Oden right now.

It amazes me that people still can't see that apparently worse players can be better for the team. I guess that's why Allen Iverson got a job in Memphis. As did Zach Randolph. Were you clamoring for Pritchard's head when he got rid of Zach's 20 and 10?

Oden is great. I love Oden. I will be mad if Oden doesn't get around 30ppg (fouls permitting). Does that mean he should start? Not necessarily. Does that mean he's a better player than Joel? Not necessarily: Joel's rebounding is as good, his defense is better, and he is much better at the little things like setting picks to get people open. And McMillan has to decide whether he rewards lunchbucket work and seniority, whereas we in fantasy BBall land can just play favorites with no consequences.

Why? Miller hasn't exactly player fantastic. Nash ate both Miller and Blake's lunch last night, then give them both a wedgie. Miller didn't earn the spot by completely eclipsing his competition. Oden did. Big difference.

Define "completely eclipse"? To me all that matters is if the team does better with him on the floor over Joel. Prove that and you'll have a case.

Once again, this line fell behind in the first quarter 54% of the time last season. Is that how you define working?

Depends. Given that we won 54 games, by almost all measures overachieving, I'd guess things are okay. Presumably you think we'd've won more starting different players. The way to prove that is to show that your preferred starting lineup would do better. But not just that. You'd also have to show that the lineup of the players left over works off the bench. Because if it doesn't, and the team loses more games despite having a stellar starting lineup, then I'd have to say your idea is dumb.

As for picks, Oden does just fine.

Or not. And certainly not as well as Przybilla.

As an added bonus he can roll to the hoop and have a reasonable chance of score. "Thumbs" Joel can't.

Newsflash: that's not Przybilla's role. And Oden can do that just as well coming off the bench, where his scoring is more needed and Przybilla's defense less needed.

 

[rocketeer]

Then why did Nate do it? What is he hoping to accomplish by saying this now, especially when his choice is so controversial/retarded?

I agree we should wait to get pissed if and when it actually does happen, but the fact remains Nate just declared that Joel would start over him on opening night... So either way, what good can come from such a declaration?

last year nate said that batum was going to start on opening night. did he?

what bad can come of it? a bunch of people going crazy on a message board.

 

[rocketeer]

The problem with this argument, is that you are putting Oden on the floor with Rudy, Webster, and Outlaw - 3 guys who make their living shooting the ball from the perimeter. Playing with those 3 turns Oden into Joel 2.0. How does that aid either his development or the future of the team?

huh? so having guys who can do a good job of spreading the floor and punishing opposing teams who have to send help to cover oden inside is a bad thing?