Raptors have the best pg's?

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Shake)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarkid)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

How about lakers?</p>

Derek Fisher , Jordan Farmar, Javaris Crittenton, Sasha Vujacic, Coby Karl.</p>

</p>

I think Kidd/Marcus/Armstrong are very solid right now.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

Lmao, I've seen better PG depth in the WNBA.</p>

Kidd/Laptop/Armstrong is a pretty solid core, but Ford/Calderon/Dixon I guess isn't to bad. We don't really have a 3<sup>rd </sup>point guard. In my mind, Calderon is better then Laptop. While Ford is better then Armstrong. Calderon is always a tough match-up for Kidd, while Ford sometimes has trouble.</p>

Also, so what? Nets beat us in the first round. Kidd has trouble with Calderon, and it was our first time in the playoffs in over 5 years. We had 9 new guys and we won our division. So please, Kidd is a great PG, but he won't be winning a championship with the Nets.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

</p>

Marcus was just young, and he has learned and improved so much in the summer time, so you can't assume he is still as raw as he was inhis first season.</p>

And Marcus is a better passer than Calderon IMO. Yeah, Ford is better than Armstrong overally, but Armstrong is a better defensive player.</p>

Kidd >>> Ford or Calderon. Dixon is just like a shooter. So I would say the Nets have the better PGs.</p>

</p>

Yeah, maybe Kidd can not win the ring with the Nets, but so do you. And I would say Kidd is better than Jacque Vaughnwho has a ringin any day.</p>

</p>

I said the Nets beat Raptors is to represent that winning the Division is nothing.</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'></p>

represent that winning the Division is nothing.</p>

</div></p>

Except getting knocked out of the first round! Zing! </p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MosDefinitely)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gambitnut)</div><div class='quotemain'>How about Jack/Blake/Rodriguez/Green for pure depth to compete with Toronto? Nash and his backup would also compete with Kidd and his backup.</div></p>

Booo, you guys are underrating the Raptor's PG...I bet Ford or Calderon could start on probably 15 NBA teams right now.</p>

</div></p>

And do better than Kidd? That'd be nice to see. And I also bet Kidd could get his team past the 1st round with a player like Bosh on his team, along with all those other guys on the Raps.</p>

I'd also like to see the two Raps PGs get more than one triple double in the season and get their team to the finals, let alone the 2nd round. I'd also like to see the two play defense like Kidd does, when he needs to.</p>

We're not underrating the Raps' PGs. We're comparing them to Kidd. The arguement is Toronto's PGs vs. New Jersey's PGs, and obviously, with a HALL OF FAMER and perennial All-Star as the starting point guard, the advantage goes to the Nets.</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MosDefinitely)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gambitnut)</div><div class='quotemain'>How about Jack/Blake/Rodriguez/Green for pure depth to compete with Toronto? Nash and his backup would also compete with Kidd and his backup.</div></p>

Booo, you guys are underrating the Raptor's PG...I bet Ford or Calderon could start on probably 15 NBA teams right now.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

Yup. And any team in the league besides one, would take Kidd.</p>

</p>
 
[quote name='Master Shake']</p>

[quote name='cpawfan']</p>

[quote name='Real']</p>

Sam Mitchell should realize who else is in the division before he makes comments like these. I guess he has selective memory.</p>

[/QUOTE]</p>

Yeah, it would be soooo much better that he trashes his own players. What is this world coming to when a head coach displays confidence about his roster to the media?</p>

</p>

[/QUOTE]</p>

Owned. [/quote]</p>

Blasphemy! The only thing cpaw owns me in is years!
wink.gif
</p>

Realize who else is in the division? We just won our division, we can talk however we want. We have a very good team, and we are young. If I had Calderon and Ford on my team, I would boast all day. Do you not understand how valuable Calderon is? Teams with cap will through 6-7 mill at this guy, maybe more.</p>
Click to expand...
</p>

Yeah but you just got beat in the playoffs by the second place team in the division.</p>

This isn't new. Mitchell also made comments about Kidd back in the playoffs. He has a knack for saying some strange things.</p>
 
Rofl. Kidd + anyone is way better than Ford + Calderon. It's not even close.</p>
 
One thing you have to take into account when you point to that playoff series as an argument against our PG's:

Coaching: Both of Toronto's PG's played well during that series but Sam Mitchell never really seemed to understand which matchups were working and how to use either of them to their maximum potential. As a result, TJ Ford had the ball in his hands far too often and our set plays were so ridiculously predictable (pick and roll, PG drive). Calderon was the best matchup against New Jersey, because he knew how to initiate motion by himself, and Mitchell didn't seem to recognize that until the last couple minutes of Game 6.

And as great a PG as Kidd is, he had it pretty easy against a defense that could not make an adjustment when a player started to get effective (eg: VC coming off picks in Game 3). How many of his points/assists came from a crappy Toronto offensive set that resulted in an easy NJ fast break opportunity? Kidd did a great job of taking advantage of it, but you would never know how easy he had it just looking at the statline. And for some reason Mitchell also never seemed to realize that he couldn't hit a jumpshot if his life depended on it (during that series at least).


It depends on the roster (there's no way I'd pair TJ Ford with Vince Carter), but I'd probably take Ford and Calderon over Kidd and scrub.</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>


It depends on the roster (there's no way I'd pair TJ Ford with Vince Carter), but I'd probably take Ford and Calderon over Kidd and scrub.</p>

</div></p>

Really? Why?</p>

No matter which of them you have in the game, you are always trying to cover up their considerable weaknesses.</p>

That's not much different than what most teams do, but you are turning down Jason Kidd.</p>

</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarkid)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Shake)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarkid)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

How about lakers?</p>

Derek Fisher , Jordan Farmar, Javaris Crittenton, Sasha Vujacic, Coby Karl.</p>

</p>

I think Kidd/Marcus/Armstrong are very solid right now.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

Lmao, I've seen better PG depth in the WNBA.</p>

Kidd/Laptop/Armstrong is a pretty solid core, but Ford/Calderon/Dixon I guess isn't to bad. We don't really have a 3<sup>rd </sup>point guard. In my mind, Calderon is better then Laptop. While Ford is better then Armstrong. Calderon is always a tough match-up for Kidd, while Ford sometimes has trouble.</p>

Also, so what? Nets beat us in the first round. Kidd has trouble with Calderon, and it was our first time in the playoffs in over 5 years. We had 9 new guys and we won our division. So please, Kidd is a great PG, but he won't be winning a championship with the Nets.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

</p>

Marcus was just young, and he has learned and improved so much in the summer time, so you can't assume he is still as raw as he was inhis first season.</p>

And Marcus is a better passer than Calderon IMO. Yeah, Ford is better than Armstrong overally, but Armstrong is a better defensive player.</p>

Kidd >>> Ford or Calderon. Dixon is just like a shooter. So I would say the Nets have the better PGs.</p>

</p>

Yeah, maybe Kidd can not win the ring with the Nets, but so do you. And I would say Kidd is better than Jacque Vaughnwho has a ringin any day.</p>

</p>

I said the Nets beat Raptors is to represent that winning the Division is nothing.</p>

</div></p>

Laptop was young, but that is no excuse. He was so low on confidence, that he just couldn't play at a high level, and Calderon was so much better then him. No matter what potential you think Marcus has, Calderon is better right now, and I think will be in the near future. As Chutney has said, coaching was a big part of it. Mitchell does have problems with match-ups, and doesn't really fix them.</p>

Yeah, maybe Kidd can not win the ring with the Nets, but so do you? So do I what?. Of course Kidd is better then Jacque Vaughn, but what does that have to do with anything. Vaughn played like 2 minutes a game, and he won because the Spurs are better then the Nets. That is a way different topic. You cannot compare Kidd who plays 38 minutes per game, to a guy who plays 2. Matt Bonner won a ring, am I comparing him to Chris Bosh? No, because it is a different situation.</p>

Well, winning the division means, we came a long way from last year. We where a young, new team in the playoffs. I'm not going to make an excuse for the Raptors. They lost, and that's it. Nothing left to say.</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>


It depends on the roster (there's no way I'd pair TJ Ford with Vince Carter), but I'd probably take Ford and Calderon over Kidd and scrub.</p>

</div></p>

Really? Why?</p>

No matter which of them you have in the game, you are always trying to cover up their considerable weaknesses.</p>

That's not much different than what most teams do, but you are turning down Jason Kidd.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

Championship franchises are created with depth, not a star-studded starting lineup and crap coming off the bench. If the Nets have shown us anything over the years, its that a well-rounded team > than a couple of stars and fillers. Choosing a combination of two of the better PG's in the league over an All-Star and scrub is a step towards building that type of team, IMO.</p>
 
Also, as athletic as Kidd is right now, he is old. So is Armstrong. So why not take 2 PG's who are young and work so well with eachother. I'm with Chutney here, Ford/Calderon or Kidd/Armstrong any day.</p>
 
How is Darrell Armstrong or Marcus Williams a scrub?</p>

</p>
 
I'm at a loss to create a stupider thread than this one.</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real)</div><div class='quotemain'>How is Darrell Armstrong or Marcus Williams a scrub?</div>Well neither is a starting calibre PG. I may have gone too far calling Laptop a scrub, because he's got a lot of talent and potential, but Armstrong's just a veteran who comes off the bench. Every team has one.</p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'>Francis / James is better than Ford / Calderon.</div>Please don't call Mike James a point guard, lol. I can't stand either one of those players and I'd never ever take James back after going through a season with him. .</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Francis / James is better than Ford / Calderon.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

WOW. That's a bit mean, haha. But probably true.</p>

Hinrich/Duhon is definitely better than both those pairs. Those two have actually heard of defense.</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney)</div><div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

It depends on the roster (there's no way I'd pair TJ Ford with Vince Carter), but I'd probably take Ford and Calderon over Kidd and scrub.</p>

</div></p>

Really? Why?</p>

No matter which of them you have in the game, you are always trying to cover up their considerable weaknesses.</p>

That's not much different than what most teams do, but you are turning down Jason Kidd.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

Championship franchises are created with depth, not a star-studded starting lineup and crap coming off the bench. If the Nets have shown us anything over the years, its that a well-rounded team > than a couple of stars and fillers. Choosing a combination of two of the better PG's in the league over an All-Star and scrub is a step towards building that type of team, IMO.</p></div>

</p>

I don't understand. Are you saying that the Nets lack depth as opposed to the Raps? I'm confused, what did depth do for you in the playoffs last year?
I think that when you have your Captain at PG, and he's a future HOF player it's impossible to not have a dropoff on the second option, so our depth will never be even until Nash signs here. We need a role player who can play 2 ways, as our backup period. And as good as Calderon/Ford are, they only as good as the sum of their parts.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>


It depends on the roster (there's no way I'd pair TJ Ford with Vince Carter), but I'd probably take Ford and Calderon over Kidd and scrub.</p>

</div></p>

Really? Why?</p>

No matter which of them you have in the game, you are always trying to cover up their considerable weaknesses.</p>

That's not much different than what most teams do, but you are turning down Jason Kidd.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

Championship franchises are created with depth, not a star-studded starting lineup and crap coming off the bench. If the Nets have shown us anything over the years, its that a well-rounded team > than a couple of stars and fillers. Choosing a combination of two of the better PG's in the league over an All-Star and scrub is a step towards building that type of team, IMO.</p>

</div></p>

Ford and Calderon are nowhere near "two of the better PGs in the league".</p>

They are solid players who combined can hold down a starting spot and not kill your team. They are both lucky they have a coach that doesn't stress defense.</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Shake)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

So why not take 2 PG's who are young and work so well with eachother.</p>

</div></p>

Because they're not as good at basketball?</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

I'm at a loss to create a stupider thread than this one.</p>

</div></p>

That's pretty much the non-PC version of what I'm trying to say.</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

I'm at a loss to create a stupider thread than this one.</p>

</div></p>

That's pretty much the non-PC version of what I'm trying to say.</p>

</p></div>

</p>
Well, my bad. Sam Mitchell's deserves most of the credit though.
 
I dont think alot of you are understanding the quote, Mitchell was saying that he believes he has the best 1 - 2 PG COMBO in the league. Alot of you are saying Kidd this and Kidd that, yes Kidd is amazing and destroys Toronto whenever he plays but sorry to be the bearer of bad news but if Kidd goes down with an injury so does the entire Nets team while with the Raptors if TJ goes down Calderon steps up and Toronto doesnt miss a beat and vica versa. The only other PG duo that could hold a candle to Calderon and Ford in my opion are Hinrich/Duhon and Nash/Barbosa but again would PHX or CHI be as good if their starting PG went down with an injury??

As for the person who mentioned James and Francis please stick to soccer.</p>
 
[quote name='Master Shake']</p>

[quote name='jarkid']</p>

[quote name='Master Shake']</p>

[quote name='jarkid']</p>

How about lakers?</p>

Derek Fisher , Jordan Farmar, Javaris Crittenton, Sasha Vujacic, Coby Karl.</p>

</p>

I think Kidd/Marcus/Armstrong are very solid right now.</p>

</p>

[/QUOTE]</p>

Lmao, I've seen better PG depth in the WNBA.</p>

Kidd/Laptop/Armstrong is a pretty solid core, but Ford/Calderon/Dixon I guess isn't to bad. We don't really have a 3<sup>rd </sup>point guard. In my mind, Calderon is better then Laptop. While Ford is better then Armstrong. Calderon is always a tough match-up for Kidd, while Ford sometimes has trouble.</p>

Also, so what? Nets beat us in the first round. Kidd has trouble with Calderon, and it was our first time in the playoffs in over 5 years. We had 9 new guys and we won our division. So please, Kidd is a great PG, but he won't be winning a championship with the Nets.</p>

</p>

[/QUOTE]</p>

</p>

Marcus was just young, and he has learned and improved so much in the summer time, so you can't assume he is still as raw as he was inhis first season.</p>

And Marcus is a better passer than Calderon IMO. Yeah, Ford is better than Armstrong overally, but Armstrong is a better defensive player.</p>

Kidd >>> Ford or Calderon. Dixon is just like a shooter. So I would say the Nets have the better PGs.</p>

</p>

Yeah, maybe Kidd can not win the ring with the Nets, but so do you. And I would say Kidd is better than Jacque Vaughnwho has a ringin any day.</p>

</p>

I said the Nets beat Raptors is to represent that winning the Division is nothing.</p>

[/QUOTE]</p>

Laptop was young, but that is no excuse. He was so low on confidence, that he just couldn't play at a high level, and Calderon was so much better then him. No matter what potential you think Marcus has, Calderon is better right now, and I think will be in the near future. As Chutney has said, coaching was a big part of it. Mitchell does have problems with match-ups, and doesn't really fix them.</p>

Yeah, maybe Kidd can not win the ring with the Nets, but so do you? So do I what?. Of course Kidd is better then Jacque Vaughn, but what does that have to do with anything. Vaughn played like 2 minutes a game, and he won because the Spurs are better then the Nets. That is a way different topic. You cannot compare Kidd who plays 38 minutes per game, to a guy who plays 2. Matt Bonner won a ring, am I comparing him to Chris Bosh? No, because it is a different situation.</p>

Well, winning the division means, we came a long way from last year. We where a young, new team in the playoffs. I'm not going to make an excuse for the Raptors. They lost, and that's it. Nothing left to say.</p>

</p>

[/QUOTE]</p>

1. Yeah, he just lost his confidence, but that's not equal to he's not a good baller.</p>

2. So you agree with my points, win a ring or not won't affect Kidd's value.</p>

3.Yeah, you are young, winning the division in a year really means nothing.</p>

This year, you won't win anymore, because the Nets is healthier, and the Celtics is stronger.</p>

</p>

</p>
 
I dont think alot of you are understanding the quote, Mitchell was saying that he believes he has the best 1 - 2 PG COMBO in the league. Alot of you are saying Kidd this and Kidd that, yes Kidd is amazing and destroys Toronto whenever he plays but sorry to be the bearer of bad news but if Kidd goes down with an injury so does the entire Nets team while with the Raptors if TJ goes down Calderon steps up and Toronto doesnt miss a beat and vica versa. The only other PG duo that could hold a candle to Calderon and Ford in my opion are Hinrich/Duhon and Nash/Barbosa but again would PHX or CHI be as good if their starting PG went down with an injury?</p>

It does not follow that the combo with less drop off isthe best. The bestcombogets more wins. Kidd maybe old but he'd still guaranteemore winsthan Fordand Calderon.I'd tradeFord/Calderon for Kidd/ Williams anytime. Just imagine what a trio of Kidd, Bosh, and Barnani would do to opposing teams.</p>
 
Wow.. People still think that they can talk some sense in Raptors fans?

Fact is, as long as Kidd and Williams are on the same team as Carter, the Raptors fans think less of them, because Carter (who put Toronto on the NBA map by the way) is "that guy who apparently screwed over the franchise".</p>

I would prefer my coach not to make those kinds of Mebury-statements,if we just got kicked out of the first round of the playoffs, to a team who's PGs are old and a scrub, according to some. Amazing!</p>
 
Surprised Nash/Barbosa hasn't been mentioned more than once or twice in this thread. Not even sure I would take Calderon over Barbosa.</p>
 
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