Trade Realistic trade ideas

[Minstrel]

They trades for PG13 and Cousins were likely viewed as unrealistic if looked at before they happened.

Pritchard apparently turned down better deals for various silly reasons. Divac also apparently turned down better deals for all of the year leading up to the Cousins deal for basically unknown reasons. If a GM is willing to hurt his team, I agree that you can make an unrealistic trade come true. The vast majority of the time, unrealistic trades remain unrequited.

 

[Strenuus]

Hope so.

They already said they would, I think. I saw it in a couple links.

 

[BonesJones]

There's no point to keep Crowder when he'll want out because he wants to start and will cost a lot when he hits the market. Especially since Brown is ready to replace his production, and Tatum will be just as good if not better in a couple years. Crowder is the 4th valuable SF on that team.

 

[GDiama]

There's no point to keep Crowder when he'll want out because he wants to start and will cost a lot when he hits the market. Especially since Brown is ready to replace his production, and Tatum will be just as good if not better in a couple years. Crowder is the 4th valuable SF on that team.

True. But what is also true is we have no assets and no promising picks. We have nothing valuable. Nothing, 0, Zero.

 

[BonesJones]

I still like the idea of:
We Get Crowder, BOS Gets Vonleh, our '18 1st, Connaughton (U.G.C.), and cash/U.G.C. from Team 3, with Team 3 getting Layman and a future 2nd.

We send out enough to get Crowder.
Boston clears cap space to sign Hayward, turn one of their four SFs into a young PF with upside (they need PFs), they get a pick that has the potential of being between 15 and 20.
It just makes sense.

 

[BonesJones]

I still like the idea of:
We Get Crowder, BOS Gets Vonleh, our '18 1st, Connaughton (U.G.C.), and cash/U.G.C. from Team 3, with Team 3 getting Layman and a future 2nd.

We send out enough to get Crowder.
Boston clears cap space to sign Hayward, turn one of their four SFs into a young PF with upside (they need PFs), they get a pick that has the potential of being between 15 and 20.
It just makes sense.

 

[Minstrel]

There's no point to keep Crowder when he'll want out because he wants to start and will cost a lot when he hits the market. Especially since Brown is ready to replace his production, and Tatum will be just as good if not better in a couple years. Crowder is the 4th valuable SF on that team.

Well, he's 6'6''--they could move him to shooting guard in a pinch. It's not like he'd struggle to defend the position and the offensive skillsets are basically identical.

 

[BonesJones]

True. But what is also true is we have no assets and no promising picks. We have nothing valuable. Nothing, 0, Zero.

They need PFs. Vonleh would be valuable to them because he fits what they need in a PF, has playoff experience, and has untapped upside. We could give them a PF while helping them clear cap space while giving a pick that isn't as unpromising as you think. They're not going to get a top 10 pick for Crowder. Our lottery protected pick would still be somewhat promising, as it would have the potential to be between 15 and 20.

 

[BonesJones]

Well, he's 6'6''--they could move him to shooting guard in a pinch. It's not like he'd struggle to defend the position and the offensive skillsets are basically identical.

Bradley is the better player and I think they'd rather keep him there. I think they value Smart and Brown more than other teams, so it makes no sense to trade them. So it comes down to Bradley verse Crowder, and Bradley's better. It's not like they would be able to get a much better package for Crowder though.

It makes no sense why it wouldn't be Crowder that they trade out. He's said he has no problem leaving Boston in reference to Celtics' fans cheering Gordon Hayward during Jazz introductions. Bradley and Thomas have great chemistry.

 

[Minstrel]

Bradley is the better player and I think they'd rather keep him there. I think they value Smart and Brown more than other teams, so it makes no sense to trade them. So it comes down to Bradley verse Crowder, and Bradley's better. It's not like they would be able to get a much better package for Crowder though.

Crowder's not a star, he makes a good depth piece behind Bradley. My point was not that he has to displace Bradley, but they can still get a lot more value out of him than "fourth-string small forward." If I were the Celtics, I'd be a lot more interested in shipping Smart than Crowder. He's still young enough that a rebuilding team could be interested in him--if they could dump him into some team's cap space for a mid- to late-first round pick, they'd clear enough for Hayward, retain the better players and get at least a little value back for him.

 

[BonesJones]

Crowder's not a star, he makes a good depth piece behind Bradley. My point was not that he has to displace Bradley, but they can still get a lot more value out of him than "fourth-string small forward." If I were the Celtics, I'd be a lot more interested in shipping Smart than Crowder. He's still young enough that a rebuilding team could be interested in him--if they could dump him into some team's cap space for a mid- to late-first round pick, they'd clear enough for Hayward, retain the better players and get at least a little value back for him.

Nobody is going to give up much for Smart. Almost no team with a mid-to-late 1st round pick is rebuilding, so it makes no sense that Boston could get a pick like that for Smart. They need a PF and they'd value Vonleh IMO. Crowder wants to start and it'd be nearly impossible to find him enough minutes as a backup SG. Getting Vonleh + a Mid-to-Late 1st Rounder for Crowder makes a ton of sense.

They could get rid of Smart for basically nothing, but then they have no PFs at all, and have no cap space or MLE available to sign any of them. That's why they'd value Vonleh and a 1st for Crowder more than essentially nothing for Smart.

 

[Minstrel]

Nobody is going to give up much for Smart. Almost no team with a mid-to-late 1st round pick is rebuilding, so it makes no sense that Boston could get a pick like that for Smart.

Teams often have picks beyond their own collected in trades. It's certainly possible that no team with cap space has one--I haven't researched it to find out.

They need a PF and they'd value Vonleh IMO.

Yeah, I'm less certain that Vonleh has much value. The Celtics could just use some of the MLE to sign someone like David Lee, Mbah a Moute or re-sign Jerebko if they're interested in a filler at power forward. At 6'8'' with a 7' wingspan, Jayson Tatum is their power forward of the future, so Vonleh being young isn't that much of a benefit.

 

[BonesJones]

Teams often have picks beyond their own collected in trades. It's certainly possible that no team with cap space has one--I haven't researched it to find out.



Yeah, I'm less certain that Vonleh has much value. The Celtics could just use some of the MLE they'll have since they're going to be capped out to sign someone like David Lee, Mbah a Moute or re-sign Jerebko if they're interested in a filler at power forward. At 6'8'' with a 7' wingspan, Jayson Tatum is their power forward of the future, so Vonleh being young isn't that much of a benefit.

MLE is only available to teams that are over the cap. Essentially, the MLE as a cap hold worth the amount of the MLE, so teams can't use it if they have cap space. It only makes sense for teams over the caps, since it's basically $8M in cap space, they wouldn't have otherwise, while it's essentially the cap space that teams have that are under the cap.

Boston would have to sign Vet Minimum PFs, or someone with their Cap Space Exception (which is only $3M-$4M) or so, so they wouldn't be able to get anyone much better than Vonleh, which is why Vonleh would have value in a trade. Any PF available for Crowder would likely make too much to get Boston their $3M in cap space to sign Hayward, or they won't be as good of a player and fit as Vonleh is. That's why Vonleh is valuable. The youth is just a little added bonus compared to Vonleh being a 30-some year old. Even with signing one of those PFs, they still need another PF, preferably one that could play C because Zizic is their only backup C and he's unproven. Tatum is no where near strong enough to play PF at this point, so Vonleh would hold value as a backup PF to Lee or Jerebko, and insurance for backup C in case Horford or Zizic gets hurt, or if Zizic isn't effective.

 

[dviss1]

I still like the idea of:
We Get Crowder, BOS Gets Vonleh, our '18 1st, Connaughton (U.G.C.), and cash/U.G.C. from Team 3, with Team 3 getting Layman and a future 2nd.

We send out enough to get Crowder.
Boston clears cap space to sign Hayward, turn one of their four SFs into a young PF with upside (they need PFs), they get a pick that has the potential of being between 15 and 20.
It just makes sense.

I'm not sold on Crowder starting at PF. Who starts if this trade goes through? I still see a hole there...

 

[Minstrel]

MLE is only available to teams that are over the cap. Essentially, the MLE as a cap hold worth the amount of the MLE, so teams can't use it if they have cap space. It only makes sense for teams over the caps, since it's basically $8M in cap space, they wouldn't have otherwise, while it's essentially the cap space that teams have that are under the cap.

Boston would have to sign Vet Minimum PFs, or someone with their Cap Space Exception (which is only $3M-$4M) or so, so they wouldn't be able to get anyone much better than Vonleh, which is why Vonleh would have value in a trade.

They'll have the room MLE, which I guess you're calling a "cap space exception." I agree that they can't get anyone much better than Vonleh, but they can get filler guys who will give them about as much as Vonleh will and won't cost them Crowder. Unless they're just looking to dump Crowder to free up salary, Portland's assets don't seem worth them giving up Crowder.

 

[Scalma]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...ate-cap-room-give-gordon-hayward-max-contract

Boston aggressively pursuing trades. Have talked to at least 6 teams. Looks like at least one of Crowder, Smart, and Bradley will have to go.

 

[BonesJones]

I'm not sold on Crowder starting at PF. Who starts if this trade goes through? I still see a hole there...

He's a SF. Collins, Aminu, or Davis would start at PF.

 

[BonesJones]

They'll have the room MLE, which I guess you're calling a "cap space exception." I agree that they can't get anyone much better than Vonleh, but they can get filler guys who will give them about as much as Vonleh will and won't cost them Crowder. Unless they're just looking to dump Crowder to free up salary, Portland's assets don't seem worth them giving up Crowder.

They are looking to dump salary, thats the whole point. They get a 1st rounder, a PF, and dump enough salary to sign Hayward.

 

[Minstrel]

They are looking to dump salary, thats the whole point.

I know they're looking to reduce salary, but dumping Crowder for (almost) nothing but salary space is different. I think Ainge is trying to actually get decent value for Crowder (or whomever) while reducing salary. I don't think Vonleh and a lottery-protected pick qualifies as decent value. He only needs to reduce salary by about $3M--he probably has multiple avenues to that. He doesn't need to do anything drastic.

 

[dviss1]

He's a SF. Collins, Aminu, or Davis would start at PF.

I know he's a SF. Therein lies my trepidation. None of those 3 should start IMO.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

The trades in this thread are as realistic as any others in this forum's history. Fans (of any team) always want to devise ways to keep everyone they think are good and ship the garbage for some more good players.

Don't disagree with either statements. However, let's review this offseason....

"Neil is an idiot."
"Last summer was a big mistake."
"These guys aren't worth their contracts."
"Should be fire Neil now or give him another year?"
"The players are from mediocre to the suck."

"Let's trade our players for 2 starters from the team that finished first in the East!"
"Yeah, that'd be great!"
"Boston would be dumb to not do it!"

to soon be followed by...

"Neil should have got us Bradley and Crowder. Is the dude constantly on vacation?"

 

[Minstrel]

Don't disagree with either statements. However, let's review this offseason....

"Neil is an idiot."
"Last summer was a big mistake."
"These guys aren't worth their contracts."
"Should be fire Neil now or give him another year?"
"The players are from mediocre to the suck."

"Let's trade our players for 2 starters from the team that finished first in the East!"
"Yeah, that'd be great!"
"Boston would be dumb to not do it!"

to soon be followed by...

"Neil should have got us Bradley and Crowder. Is the dude constantly on vacation?"

Yeah, things tend to get a little bi-polar here. At the end of the season, everyone had to go except Lillard, McCollum and the Nurk. Since then, people have decided that actually we have a ton of assets and Olshey should be parlaying them into valuable players.

When it comes to fandom, anger fades and hope springs eternal. As it should be!

 

[BonesJones]

Don't disagree with either statements. However, let's review this offseason....

"Neil is an idiot."
"Last summer was a big mistake."
"These guys aren't worth their contracts."
"Should be fire Neil now or give him another year?"
"The players are from mediocre to the suck."

"Let's trade our players for 2 starters from the team that finished first in the East!"
"Yeah, that'd be great!"
"Boston would be dumb to not do it!"

to soon be followed by...

"Neil should have got us Bradley and Crowder. Is the dude constantly on vacation?"

Nobody's suggesting getting two starters from BOS, just one. They need to dump salary and have a logjam of wings, which is a situation a good GM could take advantage of.

Way to take the context out of it.

 

[Scalma]

Nobody's suggesting getting two starters from BOS, just one. They need to dump salary and have a logjam of wings, which is a situation a good GM could take advantage of.

Way to take the context out of it.

But Ainge isn't going to just give Crowder away. Crowder has a great contract and is a good player. There will be enough suitors. Vonleh would be our best offer, but most likely not Ainges best option.

 

[BonesJones]

But Ainge isn't going to just give Crowder away. Crowder has a great contract and is a good player. There will be enough suitors. Vonleh would be our best offer, but most likely not Ainges best option.

Vonleh + our 2018 pick which is a good deal given Boston's situation, as I've explained. They'd dump Crowder for cap space, so they're not gonna get a ton in return.

We'll see what they get for him though.

 

[Scalma]

Vonleh + our 2018 pick which is a good deal given Boston's situation, as I've explained. They'd dump Crowder for cap space, so they're not gonna get a ton in return.

We'll see what they get for him though.

It would suck if Utah got him essentially for nothing. Hopefully Boston/Portland are smarter than that.

 

[Denny Crane]

Crabbe for LMA.

LMA isn't wanted in SA, so they say.

SA's starting SG averaged 7PPG.

SA would love Crabbe's 3pt shooting.

 

[Scalma]

One caution about Crowder: he's really only had one season where he shot above average from outside. His career % is 34.5. If we give up Vonleh and a first, we better be sure we're not just getting a slightly better version of Aminu.

 

[Reep]

Crabbe for LMA.

LMA isn't wanted in SA, so they say.

SA's starting SG averaged 7PPG.

SA would love Crabbe's 3pt shooting.

Are you joking? LMA coming back as 3rd or 4th fiddle? His ego couldn't handle it.

 

[Denny Crane]

Are you joking? LMA coming back as 3rd or 4th fiddle? His ego couldn't handle it.

Realistic trade. I don't think NO wants him back, though.

 

[BonesJones]

One caution about Crowder: he's really only had one season where he shot above average from outside. His career % is 34.5. If we give up Vonleh and a first, we better be sure we're not just getting a slightly better version of Aminu.

Thing with Crowder is that he's a better all around player. He's MUCH better at getting to the rim and finishing, and he can handle the ball in the open court. He is a better passer and less turnover prone.

He's also more consistent of a shooter, which means teams will respect his shot. Therefore, he's a better floor spacer.