Republicans, can I ask an honest question about racism

[blazerboy30]

No, racism does not require historical context. The difference between the N word and cracker absolutely is about historical context.

That wasn't the point of this thread or anything I mentioned in any of my posts, including the one you quoted.

Take your strawman elsewhere.

 

[Denny Crane]

Julius wrote about the difference between the N word and cracker. You put up the strawman about RACISM NOT REQUIRING HISTORICAL CONTEXT.

The difference between the words does, racism doesn't.

 

[blazerboy30]

Julius wrote about the difference between the N word and cracker. You put up the strawman about RACISM NOT REQUIRING HISTORICAL CONTEXT.

The difference between the words does, racism doesn't.

They're both racist. They have different historic context, but they're both still racist. THAT'S THE POINT.

 

[Denny Crane]

They're both racist. They have different historic context, but they're both still racist. THAT'S THE POINT.

That's why I asked you to define racism.

One is racist, the other is not.

 

[julius]

You're kidding right? That is absolutely racism.

Um, no it doesn't. Otherwise white people voting for Romney is racism.

I'm referring to the 2008 democratic primaries. The white vote was split very evenly between Obama and Clinton. The black vote was ~97% for Obama. Clearly it wasn't about political differences between Clinton and Obama.

which does not equal racism.

Probably because there are a lot more white people in this country. Percentage-wise, I guarantee you are wrong.

Ok, not the # but the %s.

Strawman.

You are aware what i was saying, right? Because it sure looks like you had no idea what i was saying. If you did, you wouldn't have called it a strawman because I was basically saying that white people voting for Romney doesn't make that person a racist.

But hey, thanks for not paying attention to anything I said.

 

[julius]

This is complete garbage. To think that something can only be racist if it has "historical weight" is incredibly ignorant.

never said that it can only be racist.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Replace Obama with a white or hispanic candidate with the exact same views. How many Obama voters would switch and vote for Romney?

I'm guessing darn few....which rather undermines the racism argument.

 

[julius]

Replace Obama with a white or hispanic candidate with the exact same views. How many Obama voters would switch and vote for Romney?

I'm guessing darn few....which rather undermines the racism argument.

good point. It's not like all the sudden blacks started voting for democrats after generations of voting for republicans. And it's not like hispanics didn't vote for R's ever before (iirc, they were a strong and solid group for GWB in 00 and 04).

 

[3RA1N1AC]

if women vote for hillary that means they are sexist

 

[Further]

I think one of the problems with discussing racial issues is everything is blank and white (pardon the pun). what I mean, is that everything is being labeled as racist or not racist, when there are shades of grey. Take the n-word vs cracker discussion from above. If there were a scale of racism from 1 to 10, most would agree that the n-word is a nine or ten. But cracker also falls on that scale. It is nowhere as racist as the n-word, but can certainly be racist, especially in the right context. So cracker might be a two or a three, next to the nine or ten of the n-word. So one side sees that there is some racism in the word and wants to label it racist, and the other side doesn't want to label it as racist because that diminishes just how racist the n-word is.

That sounds kind of like I was just rambling, but oh well, my thoughts are in there somewhere.

 

[Denny Crane]

Why historical context matters.

White men overpowered black men, calling them the N word before stringing them up or burning down their neighborhoods. When a black man heard the word, it was reason to fear for his life. The murders and tortures were brutal. The damage done to black enterprise, community, and family cannot be understated.

There is nothing even close to that context when cracker is used. And cracker isn't a derogatory word, it's a reminder of the physical dominance of whites over blacks over the centuries.

If anything, cracker is anti-racist. Racism requires an element of superiority of one race over others or inferiority of one race compared to others. I don't see the superiority/inferiority (blacks saying whites are inferior) in cracker.

FWIW

 

[blazerboy30]

That's why I asked you to define racism.

One is racist, the other is not.

False.

 

[Denny Crane]

False.

Define racism. I've defined it a few times. My definition agrees with Merriam-Webster. You use the word like it means something else entirely.

 

[blazerboy30]

good point. It's not like all the sudden blacks started voting for democrats after generations of voting for republicans. And it's not like hispanics didn't vote for R's ever before (iirc, they were a strong and solid group for GWB in 00 and 04).

I'll spell it out for you since you're confused:

Whites were split 50-50 between Obama and Clinton.
Clearly there wasn't a huge difference in their policies.
97% of blacks voted for Obama.

And now you're trying to claim that race had nothing to do with the difference between a 50-50 split and a 93-3 split.

Ignorant or just playing dumb.

 

[blazerboy30]

if women vote for hillary that means they are sexist

If two candidates were very similar with respect to their policies, and the female candidate received 97% of women's votes, then yes, sex was a factor in the decision.

 

[blazerboy30]

Why historical context matters.

White men overpowered black men, calling them the N word before stringing them up or burning down their neighborhoods. When a black man heard the word, it was reason to fear for his life. The murders and tortures were brutal. The damage done to black enterprise, community, and family cannot be understated.

There is nothing even close to that context when cracker is used. And cracker isn't a derogatory word, it's a reminder of the physical dominance of whites over blacks over the centuries.

If anything, cracker is anti-racist. Racism requires an element of superiority of one race over others or inferiority of one race compared to others. I don't see the superiority/inferiority (blacks saying whites are inferior) in cracker.

FWIW

Cool story bro. You should have started a new thread for that ramble that wasn't related to the original topic.

 

[blazerboy30]

Define racism. I've defined it a few times. My definition agrees with Merriam-Webster. You use the word like it means something else entirely.

Nowhere in Merriam-Webster is there any reference to historical context.

From merriam-webster's second entry:

racisim: racial prejudice or discrimination.


You're wrong Denny.

 

[Denny Crane]

Cool story bro. You should have started a new thread for that ramble that wasn't related to the original topic.

It's entirely related to the original topic. If YOU are trying to make the case that black people are racist for voting for Obama and that they're democrats...

Go read the first post and get back to me, bro.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

If two candidates were very similar with respect to their policies, and the female candidate received 97% of women's votes, then yes, sex was a factor in the decision.

in how many of their decisions?

 

[blazerboy30]

It's entirely related to the original topic. If YOU are trying to make the case that black people are racist for voting for Obama and that they're democrats...

Go read the first post and get back to me, bro.

I didn't say "black people are racist". I pointed to the stats from the 2008 primaries. Are you disagreeing with the stats? Do you really think it was policy differences that resulted in most demographics closely split between Clinton and Obama except for a 97-3 split among black voters?

I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[blazerboy30]

in how many of their decisions?

I don't understand that question.

 

[Denny Crane]

Nowhere in Merriam-Webster is there any reference to historical context.

From merriam-webster's second entry:

racisim: racial prejudice or discrimination.


You're wrong Denny.

What is the first part you deliberately ignored?

"a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"

I'm right

 

[blazerboy30]

What is the first part you deliberately ignored?

"a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"

I'm right

Do you know how to read a dictionary? There is a reason for multiple entries.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

bb, can you site this 97% with a link? curious as to the details of it

 

[Denny Crane]

I didn't say "black people are racist". I pointed to the stats from the 2008 primaries. Are you disagreeing with the stats? Do you really think it was policy differences that resulted in most demographics closely split between Clinton and Obama except for a 97-3 split among black voters?

I have a bridge to sell you.

No, I think black people were thrilled at the chance to vote for someone that looks like them for a change. That they expected a CHANGE in the form of a different kind of treatment by govt. (that didn't happen). So yeah, it was policy differences, among other things.

 

[Denny Crane]

Do you know how to read a dictionary? There is a reason for multiple entries.

I know how to use a dictionary. Now go look up prejudice. It's still not racism, even using some absurdly liberal definition of the word.

 

[blazerboy30]

No, I think black people were thrilled at the chance to vote for someone that looks like them for a change. That they expected a CHANGE in the form of a different kind of treatment by govt. (that didn't happen). So yeah, it was policy differences, among other things.

Yes, racism. Your argument is so ridiculous I'll just assume you're trolling and accept your apology.

 

[blazerboy30]

I know how to use a dictionary.

False.

 

[Denny Crane]

False.

Now you need to look up "false" because you don't seem to know what it means.

 

[blazerboy30]

Now you need to look up "false" because you don't seem to know what it means.

You're out of control Denny, and looking pathetic.

prejudice: preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge

Yep, that could easily explain the 97-3 split between Obama and Clinton. Or are you going to argue that the differences in their policies would only affect the black voters?