Retool or rebuild

[wizenheimer]

Brooklyn has 2 picks this year, so the trade CAN happen prior to the draft.

And Portland isn't 'trading FOR' Simmons. He's strictly salary ballast. If it helps, think of it as:

Nurk/Simmons swap.

followed up with
Dame/Claxton+picks swap

I also don't agree that Grant would not resign. I really think his primary driver is $$$. If Portland offers ~$30m/yr, he stays

sorry...I wasn't clear in my response....and it looks like it has been covered: Dame can't be traded till July because of his extension. And I do not believe Dame would ask for a trade till after he sees what the Blazers do in the draft or might line up during July. Those 2023 pick(s) the Nets have won't be a factor, IMO

and "trade Dame for ballast"...LOL

I'll say again if Portland trades Dame they should trade Ant, Nurkic and either S&T grant or let him walk. The best assets the Blazers can get from a Dame trade would be the draft picks from being a shitty team for 2-4 years

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I'll say again if Portland trades Dame they should trade Ant, Nurkic and either S&T grant or let him walk. The best assets the Blazers can get from a Dame trade would be the draft picks from being a shitty team for 2-4 years

You don't think trading Dame for Simmons accomplishes that goal? I would posit that a Simons/Sharpe/[2023 FRP]/Simmons/Claxton lineup would almost definitely be in the lottery next year.

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

You don't think trading Dame for Simmons accomplishes that goal? I would posit that a Simons/Sharpe/[2023 FRP]/Simmons/Claxton lineup would almost definitely be in the lottery next year.

I would posit that almost any team that has Simons as a key component has a fair chance of being lottery bound. The guy is one-dimensional and that one dimension is streaky, which means sometimes he is one-dimensional and others, just non-dimensional.

 

[wizenheimer]

You don't think trading Dame for Simmons accomplishes that goal? I would posit that a Simons/Sharpe/[2023 FRP]/Simmons/Claxton lineup would almost definitely be in the lottery next year.

why Simons then, and why Claxton? Trade Simons and Nurk (for draft assets) and instead of Claxton get Mills, or O'Neal. Mills/Sharpe/Thybulle/Simmons/Eubanks...now there's a team that could finish top-4 in the lottery for 2 or 3 years. Probably longer since Portland got jack shit for Dame

has it come to the point where the trade-Dame crowd is so far off the deep end they are actually arguing that Dame for the corpse of Ben Simmons and 3 or 4 draft picks in 2027-2029 is a good trade?

 

[TBpup]

why Simons then, and why Claxton? Trade Simons (and Nurk) and instead of Claxton get Mills, or O'Neal. Mills/Sharpe/Thybulle/Simmons/Eubanks...now there's a team that could finish top-4 in the lottery for 2 or 3 years. Probably longer since Portland got jack shit for Dame

has it come to the point where the trade-Dame crowd is so fucking far off the deep end they are actually arguing that Dame for the corpse of Ben Simmons and 3 or 4 draft picks in 2027-2029 is a good trade?

I don't see anyone suggesting it is a good trade. Simmons is just to match salaries. And most of the Draft pick trade scenarios I've seen include picks that occur sooner. I don't think any trade involving Dame will bring back great value. But I also don't think the Blazers will be able to bring in veterans that will put this team into a serious contending window. The nonsense of trying to straddle both lines between Dame and the youngsters is silliness. So if we aren't going to be able to be a legit contender, then it seems some people are resigned to go with the other option of building around youth and seeing what happens. It might not be great.....but it hasn't been great yet either.

 

[wizenheimer]

I don't see anyone suggesting it is a good trade. Simmons is just to match salaries. .

trading for Simmons is specifically what I was talking about; that and the fact that Brooklyn has really shitty draft assets

and for matching salaries...why the fuck match with Simmons? He has massive negative value

Spenser Dinwiddie and Joe Harris match salary even better. And they each have one less year on their contracts and are also the type of players who could be flipped for more assets. Simmons isn't

 

[Pinwheel1]

who told you that? Heck Draymond is likely headed to the HoF as a PF & he measured only 0.5" taller then that.

Yes thats what Bridges measured at the combine... which is 1.5" taller then the guy (Hart) Portland started at SF most of the year. More important measurements then height in projecting positions are weight and standing reach where (again) Bridges measured superior to Hart (+10lbs, +2.5"). Of course everyone would take him in a heartbeat if he was easily attainable.


yup, that would be an exciting 1-4. It would probably take every disposable asset Portland has to pry Mikal from NYB and even then they might not be interested. Though they'd be a fun group for sure, I don't see that as serious contending level team unless Sharpe bumps his game through the stratosphere (like All NBA team) next season... do you?

STOMP

Of course, I would take him in a heartbeat. I love the kid. I was being sarcastic because this forum spends more time discussing size than any other topic.

 

[TBpup]

trading for Simmons is specifically what I was talking about; that and the fact that Brooklyn has really shitty draft assets

and for matching salaries...why the fuck match with Simmons? He has massive negative value

Spenser Dinwiddie and Joe Harris match salary even better. And they each have one less year on their contracts and are also the type of players who could be flipped for more assets. Simmons isn't

I'm not advocating for Simmons.....must what some of the posts used for matching salary. Some of Phoenix's picks might not be too bad as they dumped all their youth for a short-term window built around KD. Paul and KD are getting up there. Ayton is a mystery. That leaves just Booker in a couple of years. Those PHX picks might be valuable.

In a big 'F' mood today?

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm not advocating for Simmons.....must what some of the posts used for matching salary. Some of Phoenix's picks might not be too bad as they dumped all their youth for a short-term window built around KD. Paul and KD are getting up there. Ayton is a mystery. That leaves just Booker in a couple of years. Those PHX picks might be valuable.

In a big 'F' mood today?

not in a mood other than, after all the 'excited' chatter about what Portland could get for Dame, it devolved to be Ben Simmons and a few picks 4-7 years from now

Brooklyn is a lousy trading partner for Dame

 

[Ed O]

And then they will leave for the bright lights , and big city. But hey, we can continue to rebuild till the next Millennia.

When does this happen, even to Portland?

Aldridge eight years ago?

No, a rebuild won't fail because players will leave. It will fail because we won't commit to it, so we'll never have more than one or two actual good young player at a time and instead will keep trying to get veterans to make our oldest (by three years) player happy.

 

[Ed O]

not in a mood other than, after all the 'excited' chatter about what Portland could get for Dame, it devolved to be Ben Simmons and a few picks 4-7 years from now

Brooklyn is a lousy trading partner for Dame

The Nets are a great potential trade partner.

• Dame would want to go there
• We only play against him two times a year at most
• The Nets have young players they can trade
• The Nets have a massive contract they WANT to trade
• The Nets have draft picks

It's almost a perfect trade partner, actually.

 

[RR7]

The Nets are a great potential trade partner.

• Dame would want to go there
• We only play against him two times a year at most
• The Nets have young players they can trade
• The Nets have a massive contract they WANT to trade
• The Nets have draft picks

It's almost a perfect trade partner, actually.

There's young players to trade, and there's attractive to us young players to trade. What young players do they have that are at all enticing to us?

Yes they have a massive contract. That doesn't make them a perfect trade partner for us, saddling us with a massive contract of a player who doesn't play.

Every team has draft picks. Some better than others. Brooklyn has 2 late 1sts this year, 21 and 22. Not super exciting when we already have a lotto pick and 23. So then we're looking at PHXs picks in 25, 27, 29 and a Dallas pick in 29. How is that a perfect trade partner? Move off of Dame for an albatross contract and picks 2-6 years from now? Maybe our ideas of perfect differ greatly

 

[Ed O]

There's young players to trade, and there's attractive to us young players to trade. What young players do they have that are at all enticing to us?

Yes they have a massive contract. That doesn't make them a perfect trade partner for us, saddling us with a massive contract of a player who doesn't play.

Every team has draft picks. Some better than others. Brooklyn has 2 late 1sts this year, 21 and 22. Not super exciting when we already have a lotto pick and 23. So then we're looking at PHXs picks in 25, 27, 29 and a Dallas pick in 29. How is that a perfect trade partner? Move off of Dame for an albatross contract and picks 2-6 years from now? Maybe our ideas of perfect differ greatly

Claxton and Cam Johnson are both good and while they're not young-young, they are entering their primes and would help keep us competitive while our young guys (Sharpe, Ant, this year's lotto pick) mature.

And paying Simmons for not playing for a couple of years doesn't matter. We will be rebuilding and it's not like we will WANT to have expensive veterans except to trade them... and Ben is a perfect opportunity to get that. He probably will never play at a high level again, but that's what people said about Chris Paul and OKC got value taking him AND trading him (even if they may have been better off keeping him, given how good he's been).

And, yeah, picks three or four years from now is fantastic. By that time Dame will be 26 or 27 and Sharpe will be 23. Both will be getting big time contracts. We need an injection of youth that we didn't get under Olshey with Dame and CJ because he kept trading first rounders for the likes of RoCo and Nance.

 

[RR7]

Cam Johnson is a free agent, Claxton is expiring after next year. You say they will help keep us competitive, while also saying we are rebuilding, so that's bonkers. Are we S&Ting for Cam? We want to lock in a 27 year old at 20+ a year when we're rebuilding? And then the following season, we do the same for Claxton? You've locked us in to overpriced role players during a time period we should have been breaking it all down. But hey, maybe we can trade them down the line, right?

 

[Norman Dale]

Here's what Michael Pina of the The Ringer suggests:
"Brooklyn can move Spencer Dinwiddie to the bench and give itself a Sixth Man of the Year candidate, then unleash Bridges as the capable no. 2 offensive option he’s more suited to being. The Nets don’t have any intriguing young players to offer. What they do have is Ben Simmons’s contract, Patty Mills, four unprotected first-round picks from the Suns, one unprotected first-round pick from the Mavericks, and their own first-round pick in 2029."

I think if the Blazers could get all that from the Nets, they would have to take it. The Suns are getting old and may blow it up if they don't go far this year and the Mavs could end up losing Luka if they don't re-sign Kyrie. I say take a chance!

 

[wizenheimer]

The Nets are a great potential trade partner.

• Dame would want to go there
• We only play against him two times a year at most
• The Nets have young players they can trade
• The Nets have a massive contract they WANT to trade
• The Nets have draft picks

It's almost a perfect trade partner, actually.

LOL...geeeeezuzzzz....of course the Nets WANT to trade Simmons....he's the biggest mistake they've made in years and he has the most negative contract in the league. The Nets would have to attach a couple of firsts, at minimum, AND take back another bad contract just to dump Simmons.

like I said, it sure looks like the trade-Dame clown-show is so desperate to trade Dame they'll actually try and argue that Simmons is the main component of a good return

 

[blazerfan11]

There's young players to trade, and there's attractive to us young players to trade. What young players do they have that are at all enticing to us?

Yes they have a massive contract. That doesn't make them a perfect trade partner for us, saddling us with a massive contract of a player who doesn't play.

Every team has draft picks. Some better than others. Brooklyn has 2 late 1sts this year, 21 and 22. Not super exciting when we already have a lotto pick and 23. So then we're looking at PHXs picks in 25, 27, 29 and a Dallas pick in 29. How is that a perfect trade partner? Move off of Dame for an albatross contract and picks 2-6 years from now? Maybe our ideas of perfect differ greatly

Some people here are looking for the best situation for Dame more than the Trail Blazers.
Dame has 3 more seasons on his contract. There should be no rush to trade him if that's what he wants.
I think there are more teams that want to get out of the lottery and into the playoffs than most people mention.
And what about a multi-team deal that gets the Blazers what they want?

 

[Ed O]

LOL...geeeeezuzzzz....of course the Nets WANT to trade Simmons....he's the biggest mistake they've made in years and he has the most negative contract in the league. The Nets would have to attach a couple of firsts, at minimum, AND take back another bad contract just to dump Simmons.

like I said, it sure looks like the trade-Dame clown-show is so desperate to trade Dame they'll actually try and argue that Simmons is the main component of a good return

It's two years of a lot of money... but only two years. NBA teams are willing to absorb that all the time and the idea that it would take "a couple of firsts" is silly.

Further, no one (at least not me) is saying that Simmons would be the main component at least in terms of VALUE. But a big contract is necessary for any deal because we decided to give Dame so much money. Not every NBA team that is good enough to want Dame will have a contract to move without disrupting the team that's good enough to want Dame.

Looking to trade Dame makes a ton of sense, and it's funny to me that those of you who want to keep going the same way forward think that I (and maybe others) believe there's a "perfect" trade out there for Dame and then criticize the trades discussed for not being perfect. There is no perfect out. We have too few young players of note. We don't have enough size. We have an unproven coach. We have a GM with almost no experience.

We might be screwed no matter what happens, but I'd rather have things change than holding the course and seeing the same shit product (mediocrity leading to shutting out best players down and still not having great odds at a top 3 pick because we were mediocre for too long) year after year as we watch Dame get more expensive and get older.

 

[RR7]

Looking to trade Dame makes a ton of sense, and it's funny to me that those of you who want to keep going the same way forward think that I (and maybe others) believe there's a "perfect" trade out there for Dame and then criticize the trades discussed for not being perfect. There is no perfect out. We have too few young players of note. We don't have enough size. We have an unproven coach. We have a GM with almost no experience.

.

You were the one who brought perfect in to the conversation. Myself and others pointed out issues with the specific trade pieces you mentioned. A free agent, and an expiring deal are the young pieces you ant to trade for, and then distant picks. Is a S&T of Cam your plan? A 27 year old role player looking for 20+ a season? That's the do something different for the sake of doing something different?

Nobody has said there is a perfect out. But in this league, you win with superstars, and usually need multiple of them. We have one. The easier route, presumably, would be to find one other star, not 2 of them, while having none.

 

[HansenYang]

not in a mood other than, after all the 'excited' chatter about what Portland could get for Dame, it devolved to be Ben Simmons and a few picks 4-7 years from now

Brooklyn is a lousy trading partner for Dame

Who is a better trading partner?

Milwaukee - No picks
Boston - already loaded in back court (No need for a Point Guard in Dame)
Philly - No picks
Cleveland - No picks/no need for a PG/wrong timeline
NYK - Possible - but Brooklyn has more to offer & don't really need a PG.

Denver - Possible, but don't really need a PG.
Memphis - No need for PG
Sacramento - Doesn't fit timeline
Phoenix - No picks/no need for a PG
Clippers - No picks or quality movable assets
Warriors - Duplication of Dame/Curry. Not likely
Lakers - No picks or quality movable assets


When you go through the list, getting Claxton & 4 first round picks is better than most teams can offer. Especially if Portland can negotiate getting the best (lowest) pick from several teams because they have multiple picks (Brooklyn, Houston, Dallas, Phillly, Phoenix). At least one of those teams is bound to be mid-lotto in '25 + '27 + '29

 

[HansenYang]

he's the biggest mistake they've made in years and he has the most negative contract in the league.

There's a decent chance (~30%) other teams will be saying the exact same thing about Dame's contract in ~3 years...

 

[Ed O]

There's a decent chance (~30%) other teams will be saying the exact same thing about Dame's contract in ~3 years...

Yup. And moving bigger contracts will probably get more difficult under the new CBA... Hollinger wrote an article noting how the recent deals for Wall and Westbrook, for example, would no longer be allowed.

 

[RR7]

Yup. And moving bigger contracts will probably get more difficult under the new CBA... Hollinger wrote an article noting how the recent deals for Wall and Westbrook, for example, would no longer be allowed.

So it's bad when it's Dame, but when it's Simmons, teams will take on salary "all the time", and you need big contracts to make moves anyways? lol

 

[blazerfan11]

Who is a better trading partner?

Milwaukee - No picks
Boston - already loaded in back court (No need for a Point Guard in Dame)
Philly - No picks
Cleveland - No picks/no need for a PG/wrong timeline
NYK - Possible - but Brooklyn has more to offer & don't really need a PG.

Denver - Possible, but don't really need a PG.
Memphis - No need for PG
Sacramento - Doesn't fit timeline
Phoenix - No picks/no need for a PG
Clippers - No picks or quality movable assets
Warriors - Duplication of Dame/Curry. Not likely
Lakers - No picks or quality movable assets


When you go through the list, getting Claxton & 4 first round picks is better than most teams can offer. Especially if Portland can negotiate getting the best (lowest) pick from several teams because they have multiple picks (Brooklyn, Houston, Dallas, Phillly, Phoenix). At least one of those teams is bound to be mid-lotto in '25 + '27 + '29

Saying teams already have a point guard and can't use Dame is like saying a team already has a power forward and can't use Giannis.

 

[blazerkor]

I don't think Dame's contract is or will be a bad one. No one can be certain but we all know that around the time the contract could get punitive, the salary cap is going to skyrocket. So there just isn't going to be a time that it's likely that Dame's contract is something like we just say with Westbrook.

That being said, if we are going to move Dame this off-season I think Joe needs to have made that decision by draft day. Then he can make a trade in principle with the Nets that includes players they would draft for us in this draft, future picks and most likely just eating Ben Simmons' contract. By draft day it really does need to be all in on winning big with Dame or full on youth rebuild with Dame being moved to a place where he can win big and can give us a ton of assets to bolster our rebuild.

 

[wizenheimer]

There's a decent chance (~30%) other teams will be saying the exact same thing about Dame's contract in ~3 years...

oh c'mon man

Simmons is useless at 26. Dame had his best season at 32. You guys are just grasping at straws to rationalize a bad trade idea

Who is a better trading partner?

Milwaukee - No picks
Boston - already loaded in back court (No need for a Point Guard in Dame)
Philly - No picks
Cleveland - No picks/no need for a PG/wrong timeline
NYK - Possible - but Brooklyn has more to offer & don't really need a PG.

Denver - Possible, but don't really need a PG.
Memphis - No need for PG
Sacramento - Doesn't fit timeline
Phoenix - No picks/no need for a PG
Clippers - No picks or quality movable assets
Warriors - Duplication of Dame/Curry. Not likely
Lakers - No picks or quality movable assets


When you go through the list, getting Claxton & 4 first round picks is better than most teams can offer. Especially if Portland can negotiate getting the best (lowest) pick from several teams because they have multiple picks (Brooklyn, Houston, Dallas, Phillly, Phoenix). At least one of those teams is bound to be mid-lotto in '25 + '27 + '29

as I read it, they don't have any Houston pick or swap to trade, and their own pick won't be available till 2029

that leaves Dallas, Philly, and Phoenix and it's pretty amazing how you have decided "at least one of those picks will be mid-lotto"...basically a top-8 or top-9 pick. I'd say the chances of that, especially for Philly and Brooklyn are really remote. Dallas maybe but still too much wishful thinking

I don't really care how much time you guys spend trying to polish this turd of a trade by glossing over adding Simmons behind a blizzard of fantasy about those future picks

the trade-Dame narrative has spent months justifying a Dame trade by saying that Portland can't build a contender around him. So then, let's go ahead and trade him for a bunch of iffy picks a half decade from now....which means the Blazers won't contend for a decade, probably longer, if they get lucky. In other words, trading Dame isn't about contending any sooner and people saying it is are selling swamp land

 

[Ed O]

So it's bad when it's Dame, but when it's Simmons, teams will take on salary "all the time", and you need big contracts to make moves anyways? lol

What point are you making?

That is so convoluted and so inconsistent with what I've posted I don't even know what you're saying.

 

[Ed O]

oh c'mon man

Simmons is useless at 26. Dame had his best season at 32. You guys are just grasping at straws to rationalize a bad trade idea

Simmons has two years, $78m on his deal left. He's 26.

Dame has four years, $216m left on his deal. He's 32.

There's absolutely a chance his contract turns out to be just as bad as Simmons'. Whether that's 30% or 80% I have no idea, but it's shortsighted to deny the possibility.

 

[wizenheimer]

Simmons has two years, $78m on his deal left. He's 26.

Dame has four years, $216m left on his deal. He's 32.

There's absolutely a chance his contract turns out to be just as bad as Simmons'. Whether that's 30% or 80% I have no idea, but it's shortsighted to deny the possibility.

lol...yeah 80% is "possible". It's also possible Jessica Alba with show up naked, at my door, tonight.

so, a player who has been a top-10ish player for several years and just had his best season at 32 and you guys are wondering if he'll be baked at 35. GTFO

 

[Ed O]

lol...yeah 80% is "possible". It's also possible Jessica Alba with show up naked, at my door, tonight.

so, a player who has been a top-10ish player for several years and just had his best season at 32 and you guys are wondering if he'll be baked at 35. GTFO

He's not a top-10 player. Top-20ish is more accurate in my opinion. We'll see how he does on the all-NBA teams this year, I guess, after having his best year and not getting any all-NBA votes last year.

And, yeah... players age. Players break down. Dame already isn't a paragon of health, and it's not likely he's going to get more durable.