Ric Bucher Likes OKC Over Blazers In A Few Years

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
oldmangrouch said:
Instead of comparing rookie Westbrook to veteran Blake, the real issue is Westbrook vs Bayless. I like Bayless, but if I had to bet good money on which would become a better *PG*, I would have to bet on Westbrook. It is even odds Bayless winds up as a SG, rather than our PG of the future.

One other point. KP and Presti were "litter-mates" out of the SA system. Odds are Presti becomes a damn good GM in his own right. Nothing he has done so far indicts otherwise. If he takes advantage of all the 1st round picks he has accumulated - watch out.
Click to expand...

I agree that it is Bayless vs. Westbrook in the long run (unless KP pulls a rabbit out of his hat with Kopo or a trade) - but the funny thing is that both of these guys are combo-guards - and I am not certain that Westbrook, of the two - is the one that falls more to the PG side.

As for Presti being a good GM - no doubt, but he clearly made 2 mistakes already:

1. Taking Green in the same draft as Durant - where they both are natural small-forwards - one of them is going to be playing out of position unless he just took a guy he plans on bringing from the bench with a #5 pick
2. PJ as their first coach. Ugh does not even start to describe it.

I still think that if OKC wants to be successful they need to play Westbrook as mostly a SG and run most of the offense through him and not Durant. Time will tell.
 
For the record - going on the whole Roy thing - I absolutely believe Roy is a top-10 player this year, I think anyone that does not think he can improve is missing something, I do not consider statistics as the only measure of how good a player is/will be and PER specifically to be used for comparing two players who are not close in defense is very questionable.

If Roy and Durant were somewhat close in their defensive abilities - saying that Durant has a 20+ PER in his 2nd year vs.. Roy in his 3rd would have had some merit - but since Roy is a very good defender in short spurts and above average usually - while Durant is miserably bad at it - makes the entire argument very questionable.

Another thing I would like to point is that being a "good player" should include issues like leadership abilities - and Roy is clearly superior to Durant in this aspect of the game. I am also doubt that this is something most people can "develop". For the most part - you either have it or you do not. Billups is a better player than Kevin Martin - even if his stats are not as good. Same is Roy vs. Durant.

As for the entire "Superstar" label - in my opinion, you get that label not by being in the top-10 or 5 in the league - but with being successful in the playoffs while being in the top-10 in the league at some point in your career. Roy has a chance to become that this year just as CP3 became one last year.

Durant on the other hand - has a long way to go to get there - and while it is not all his fault - some of it most certainly is, especially when you consider his defensive struggles.
 
andalusian said:
I still think that if OKC wants to be successful they need to play Westbrook as mostly a SG and run most of the offense through him and not Durant. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

You may be right about running the offense through Westbrook, the guy is relentless when he attacks. Both he and Durant (and Green to a certain extent) are amazing at rebounding and taking the ball the length of the floor to the basket. I can't get over the handles that Durant possesses on the fast break for a guy his height.

In a half court game however (as most playoff games tend to be) they are not as impressive..... yet.
 
Man, I was sooo Westbrook's #1 supporter before the draft... i was pissed he went at 4 but it seems to be an amazing selection now. He would look great in our uni (defensive PG and he would learn the game the right way from Nate). Oh well... I'm still holding out hope for Bayless i've just been slightly disappointed with his play for someone with a top 5 talent.
 
KingSpeed said:
That's not the point. We're talking about point guards who played on championship teams. So all that matters are Harper's numbers in those years. Blake is beter than he was in those years.
Click to expand...

The Triangle offense doesn't rely on a point guard. I think you could argue that Harper still played shooting guard on those teams. There just happened to be another shooting guard on the floor at the same time. The same could be said for Fisher.

Kerr, Hodges, and Paxson were pretty much shooters as well. Little to no actual point guard skills.
 
I guess Ric accomplished his goal... this is a hot topic now.

If you'll excuse me, I have to go back and read like six pages of posts to get caught up now....
 
Thanks Ric!!! We need ya to thrash our boys for the next three games!!!! As for your superstar KD he had what 11 points?

Must say though..... could any of you imagine LA and KD on the same Texas team over the last two years in the NCAA's? That could have happened! Scary!
 
Yardape said:
Must say though..... could any of you imagine LA and KD on the same Texas team over the last two years in the NCAA's? That could have happened! Scary!
Click to expand...

Had the Texas boys stayed, their lineup:

G DJ Augustin
G Daniel Gibson
G AJ Abrams
F Kevin Durant
F LaMarcus Aldridge

Yikes.
 
Many people thought Carmelo Anthony was the shit when he first came out because he was such a talented scorer, then they realized that's pretty much all he was. Didn't help defensively, and didn't make his team mates much better. I think Durant is going to be a Carmelo Anthony type...not a superstar.
 
Holy shit... I just read six pages and my head hurts.

Okay, so my questions/arguments are as follows (from what I read):

1) At what point does someone STOP being a top-10 player? 1 year? 3 years? This would help me understand the timeline a little better.

2) Bosh has Calderon (a point guard by Bucher's definition) and they're not even in the playoffs.... IN THE EAST..... I just really don't think you can count Bosh as a superstar when he can't even get his team in the fucking playoffs IN THE EAST. Dwyane Wade is carrying the Heat on his back like a llama, but at least the Heat are in the 6th spot. Bosh and his Raptors are 13th IN THE EAST... And Bosh has played in all 69 games.

3) I'm convinced that Roy's numbers will continue to climb, and I have three reasons:
A) As this team improves, and Oden becomes a more integral part of the offense, Roy will have less of a scoring burden and will be able to focus on other things like assists, rebounds, etc. I think his numbers will actually go up in a lot of areas as the Blazers grow as a team.
B) In each of the last three seasons (counting this one) Roy has either improved on his numbers, or stayed about the same. His scoring is up, his FG% is up, his three point percentage is up, and his rebounding is slightly up. His assists are slightly down, and his steals are at the same as last year. I think as this team improves, his assists will go up, his steals should go up, and his rebounding will improve, while his scoring will probably stay about the same. I don't expect Brandon to average 30 in a season. It would actually probably be a bad sign of the teams improvement as a whole.
C) Free throws are a big factor, and I think we've seen Roy take a step towards Superstar status, simply because the refs treat him as such. Roy has already eclipsed his free throw attempts from last season to this season, with 459 attempts this year, to only 378 last year. He's almost doubled his attempts from his ROY season, and we still have six (?) games left. He is 19th in the league in FTA, and I think that will continue to rise.

4) That's another point that really needs to be touched on. If Roy isn't a superstar, why are the refs treating him as such? I think Roy definitely gets the benefit of the doubt more often than not from the refs.

Anyway, that's all I can come up with now.. I'll probably remember a few things after I post this though :biglaugh:
 
All I can say is THANK YOU Ric Bucher for allowing coach McMillian a night of coaching off. Your motivation was all we needed to prove you wrong. Now Nate can really have our guys ready to clinch against Houston if Phoenix beats Dallas tomorrow.
 
PapaG said:
Blah blah blah crap crap crap. Continue to ignore my PM, Ed. You are wrong on this one.
Click to expand...

Ah, the joys of NOT being a mod:

Don't have to deal with *edited* like this.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Question for Ed, so I can try understand his definitions:

1) If Roy puts up an identical season as this one, next year, would he be a top 5-10 player and / or a superstar?

2) If Durant makes a large improvement and produces a season next year equal to what Roy did this year, would he be a top 5-10 player and / or a superstar?

(When I say identical season, I mean similar PER and other aggregated stat rankings in the league)
 
Masbee said:
Ah, the joys of NOT being a mod:

Don't have to deal with jackoffs like this.
Click to expand...

Personal insult? Nice touch. How about arguing with my posts instead of calling me names? I expect your insult to not be edited, BTW. What's your take on this thread? Or was your sole purpose of reading it to insult me? That said, I had a few jack**f posts. :)
 
Last edited:
santeesioux said:
I bet there is a multitude of talented big men lining up for the opportunity to play in Oklahoma! :biglaugh:
Click to expand...

Oh. Forgot about the new rule about players having a say in who drafts them.

RoyToy said:
Portland only started a year earlier. OKC is more than a year behind.
Click to expand...

And OKC, for the reasons I mentioned, has a lot more room to improve their roster, rather than the Blazers, who have all their pieces, and now just have to wait for them to develop completely.
 
Last edited:
Boob-No-More said:
Roy is currently 7th in the league in PPG, 7th is total points, 7th in PER, 4th in Offensive Rating, 3rd in Offensive Win Shares and 7th in Total Win Shares. Sounds like he's already a top 10 player to me - and still getting better.

BNM
Click to expand...
Yup, and Kevin Durant has reached his peak and his career will stagnate from here on out. WINNR IZ U!!
 
BengalDuck said:
KG? Paul Pierce? Chris Bosh?

It looks like you're thinking of how good these guys were two years ago.
Click to expand...

Maybe their teams have been so bad all year that they haven't gotten nearly as much recognition (Bosh), or they're seeing their stats go down due to three all stars playing on the same team together, and having to share (Pierce and KG).
 
JE said:
Yup, and Kevin Durant has reached his peak and his career will stagnate from here on out. WINNR IZ U!!
Click to expand...

JE I have an unrelated question... but I have to ask. Do you play world of warcraft? :grin:
 
JE said:
Yup, and Kevin Durant has reached his peak and his career will stagnate from here on out. WINNR IZ U!!
Click to expand...

That quote and most of this discussion that you're entering in to has nothing to do with Durant The Chucker.
 
The post I quoted was in response to this:

Ed O said:
Neither.

Durant is over four years younger than Roy, and I think he's got a much larger chance of becoming a top 5-10 NBA player than Roy, which is a pretty good definition of a superstar, I think.

Ed O.
Click to expand...

So apparently Durant is relevant in this discussion.
 
Right, and BNM's reply was referencing Roy's status as a top 10 player in this league. And much of this 13-page thread is about the same.

Please try and stay with me here.

Original (foolish) post: "I think [Durant] has a much larger chance of becoming a top 5-10 player"

BNM's response: Roy already is a top 10 player, essentially.
 
JE said:
Yup, and Kevin Durant has reached his peak and his career will stagnate from here on out. WINNR IZ U!!
Click to expand...

Nice strawman. Please show me where I said that? Please don't put try words in my mouth. Either address what I actually said, or don't bother quoting me.

It can be reasonably argued, and supported by actual stats, that Roy is already a top 10 player in the league this season. Durant isn't.

So, if the loosely defined requirement for being a "superstar" is being one of the 10 best players in the league, it can be reasonably argued and supported with facts, that Roy has already reached that level. So, how can Durant possibly be "more likely to become a superstar" than Roy?

Perhaps Durant has a higher ceiling, perhaps he doesn't. None of us know for sure. He's certainly a very talented offensive player, but Roy has a significantly better all-around game at this point. Roy has also taken his offense to another level this season - that many thought he'd never reach. Durant scores more (largely due to playing at a higher pace), but Roy has a much higher ORtg than Durant and significantly better all-around stats.

I never said, or implied, that Durant has reached his ceiling. It is impossible to say that at this point as I don't claim to know what his ceiling is. I do know that he needs to become a more complete player to become a true superstar and one of the top 10 players in the league.

It is also my opinion that he needs to start putting up big numbers on a winning team before I will personally consider him one of the top 5 - 10 players in the league. Yes, basketball is a team sport, but if you're the best player on your team and can't lead that team to more than 24 or 25 wins, how an you possibly be considered an elite player? Elite players make their teams better - significantly better. Durant has yet to do so. I'm not saying he CAN'T, just that he HASN'T.

Right now, Durant is a high volume scorer on a bad team that will win about 25 games. Such players aren't exactly rare. When various posters were listing their top 10 players, why didn't anyone mention Danny Granger? He scores slightly less than Durant (25.3 PPG vs. 25.6 PPG) but has a slightly better PER (21.3 vs. 21.0). The two players are about as close as you can get statistically. Yet, nobody mentioned Granger as a top 10 player or "superstar". All-star, yes. Superstar, no (at least not yet). He, like Durant is a volume scorer on a non-playoff team. That's not sufficient to be a superstar in my opinion, and will get both players little, or most likely, no consideration when the MVP votes are tallied.

I get that Durant is younger and COULD develop into a much better player than he currently is. I've never denied it (in spite of you implying so). But nothing's a given. I'm the kind of guy who hates to argue hypotheticals. I prefer to deal in facts. I'll take "is" over "might be" anytime. So, right now, this season, Brandon Roy is a top 10 player (statistically) in the NBA. Someday, Kevin Durant might be. Some day, he might be better than Roy, but then again he might not be. We'll just have to wait and see.

BNM
 
Last edited:
I don't think anyone will deny Durant is a better scorer than Roy. Carmelo is too. Granger probably also.
 
"________ has scored 30 points more times than ______, therefore he's better."

:lol:
 
Last edited:
Denny Crane said:
Wow, look at the month Durant had last month:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4244/gamelog;_ylt=ArKcb5A3AZS8ucO.EQ80FbiLPaB4

That's as many 30+ point games as Roy has all season.

These guys @ 21-54 are going to have a nice draft pick to add, too.
Click to expand...


Yeah, there's no doubt Durant is a pretty spectacular scorer.

But in that amazing individual month, he led his team to victories over Sacremento (bad) and Portland (good...when we got blitzed at OKC and spotted them about 30 points before trying to come back).

Elite scorers, who do little else, are rarely the players you build championships around. Durant will need to improve his game in areas other than putting the ball through the hoop if he wants to actually turn his team around like Roy has led Portland to doing.
 
Ya, if DC meant the month before last they were 2-9 with Durant and 1-0 without him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top