Rich Cho for executive of the year?

[maxiep]

I did. The team lost more games to injury last year.

Including Roy in the comparision, he played 65 games last year, and is on pace to play 49 games this year. So, whatever you need to do with those 16 games, please note that they are included in a this year v. last year comparison.

I think BB30's point is that this year's Brandon Roy is essentially an 82 game season missed due to injury. Even when he's on the floor, he's a shell of the player he once was. To not acknowledge that we had to rebuild on the fly with a new #1 option is simply being disingenuous.

 

[Minstrel]

I did. The team lost more games to injury last year.

Including Roy in the comparision, he played 65 games last year, and is on pace to play 49 games this year. So, whatever you need to do with those 16 games, please note that they are included in a this year v. last year comparison.

I think the point is, the team lost 82 games of Roy this year, because he's broken. Yes, he's "playing," but the team lost their superstar from last year (for the season and probably forever).

 

[blazerboy30]

I did. The team lost more games to injury last year.

Including Roy in the comparision, he played 65 games last year, and is on pace to play 49 games this year. So, whatever you need to do with those 16 games, please note that they are included in a this year v. last year comparison.

I think you missed my point. You'd have to count all 82 games of this year in Roy's "games missed due to injury". Maybe that doesn't change the outcome, but Roy is not last year's Roy and hasn't been all season.

Edit: maxiep and Minstrel already beat me to it.

 

[Natebishop3]

I really don't understand the Cho hate.... it's kinda like the Andre Miller hate.... doesn't make any sense. Are/were people still butthurt over the whole KP thing?

 

[Minstrel]

I really don't understand the Cho hate.... it's kinda like the Andre Miller hate.... doesn't make any sense. Are/were people still butthurt over the whole KP thing?

I'm butthurt over the whole KP thing, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to give Cho a chance. I didn't like his Bayless trade and I loved his Wallace trade. The Wallace trade is much bigger in the positive direction, for me, than the Bayless trade is in the negative direction...so he's in the black with me.

I actually liked the Cho hire, though I disliked losing Pritchard. Cho seemed like a good recovery.

 

[Ed O]

I'm butthurt over the whole KP thing, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to give Cho a chance. I didn't like his Bayless trade and I loved his Wallace trade. The Wallace trade is much bigger in the positive direction, for me, than the Bayless trade is in the negative direction...so he's in the black with me.

I actually liked the Cho hire, though I disliked losing Pritchard. Cho seemed like a good recovery.

Agreed 100% on this. I am less anti-KP firing than many, though, because I have a suspicion there was a pretty good reason for it--even if it hasn't been articulated.

I'm interested to see if/when KP gets another GM job how he does and how is perceived.

Ed O.

 

[MickZagger]

Maybe better check out Bayless' last two games as starting PG for Toronto, he's done very well. In the meantime we are a team without a solid backup PG. And we didn't need that draft pick to get Wallace.

Unfortunately thats been Bayless' M.O. so far in his career. He's fools gold.

 

[Ed O]

Unfortunately thats been Bayless' M.O. so far in his career. He's fools gold.

He's 22 years old.

And I'd prefer fool's gold to someone who is no kind of gold (see: Mills, Johnson).

Ed O.

 

[MickZagger]

Executive of the Year? A stretch. But, most around here were so quick to rush judgement on the guy before he even had a trade deadline or a draft under his belt. I think were in good hands.

 

[e_blazer]

I think Cho's done a good job so far. In essence, his trades have amounted to moving Przybilla (damaged goods), Cunningham (journeyman), and Bayless (tweener combo guard) for Gerald Wallace. I don't know a GM in the league who wouldn't have made that move and chortled all the way back to his office.

 

[B-Roy]

I think Cho's done a good job so far. In essence, his trades have amounted to moving Przybilla (damaged goods), Cunningham (journeyman), and Bayless (tweener combo guard) for Gerald Miller. I don't know a GM in the league who wouldn't have made that move and chortled all the way back to his office.

Gerald Miller sounds amazing. I wish we had him.

 

[MickZagger]

He's 22 years old.

And I'd prefer fool's gold to someone who is no kind of gold (see: Mills, Johnson).

Ed O.

He is still young. But, what part of his game do you think still has a lot of upside? To me, he's an undersized shooting guard with alligator arms that needs a lot of space to get his jumpshot off. He might thrill you with a great drive to the basket and 1, but he'll disappoint you just as easily with a careless turnover doing the same thing.

 

[e_blazer]

Gerald Miller sounds amazing. I wish we had him.

Crap. I thought I'd fixed my whoopsie before anybody caught it. I should know that never happens around here.

 

[Minstrel]

He is still young. But, what part of his game do you think still has a lot of upside?

His defense and shooting, mostly. I also think that it's within the realm of possibility that he develops the ability to find an open shooter off his drives, though that's more iffy.

 

[oldmangrouch]

I really don't understand the Cho hate.... it's kinda like the Andre Miller hate.... doesn't make any sense. Are/were people still butthurt over the whole KP thing?

I don't "hate" Cho - I've never even met the man.

History is what it is. The Blazers started the season with one of the worst benches in the league. This lack of depth, and the fatigue it caused, was an obvious handicap to the team. That's on the GM.

And for the record - I don't for one minute buy the nonesense about how Cho "couldn't possibly have known" that Oden and Roy had health issues.

 

[e_blazer]

I don't "hate" Cho - I've never even met the man.

History is what it is. The Blazers started the season with one of the worst benches in the league. This lack of depth, and the fatigue it caused, was an obvious handicap to the team. That's on the GM.

And for the record - I don't for one minute buy the nonesense about how Cho "couldn't possibly have known" that Oden and Roy had health issues.

That just cracks me up.

 

[HailBlazers]

I didn't like his Bayless trade and I loved his Wallace trade. The Wallace trade is much bigger in the positive direction, for me, than the Bayless trade is in the negative direction...so he's in the black with me.

Wasn't the pick we got in the Bayless trade used to get G.Wallace...?

IMO Bayless wasn't growing here in Portland and we had too many guards anyway.

 

[Minstrel]

Wasn't the pick we got in the Bayless trade used to get G.Wallace...?

It was, but since it wasn't a top pick, it seems unlikely that it couldn't have been replaced with a different pick.

More to the point, in terms of evaluating his performance as a GM, I viewed the first deal as "not a good one." Unless Cho was already talking with Jordan and knew he needed the pick to get Wallace, it makes more sense to view them as individual deals....one poor deal (in my opinion) and one great one.

If Cho traded Aldridge for Thabeet and then, next year, used Thabeet and others to get LeBron James, would that make Aldridge-for-Thabeet a good deal? I would certainly say no...it was still an awful deal, but his later deal was an amazing one. I wouldn't merge them into one Aldridge-and-others-for-LeBron.

IMO Bayless wasn't growing here in Portland

Well, our opinions on that are different. Bayless was only here two seasons and his PER jumped from year 1 to year 2. Additionally, his three point shooting percentage and Assist Rate both increased from year 1 to year 2. Both have increased again this season.

 

[blazerboy30]

I don't "hate" Cho - I've never even met the man.

History is what it is. The Blazers started the season with one of the worst benches in the league. This lack of depth, and the fatigue it caused, was an obvious handicap to the team. That's on the GM.

And for the record - I don't for one minute buy the nonesense about how Cho "couldn't possibly have known" that Oden and Roy had health issues.

You consider a bench of:

Rudy
Camby
Joel
Matthews
Bayless

"one of the worst benches in the league"? Interesting.

 

[MARIS61]

I think you missed my point. You'd have to count all 82 games of this year in Roy's "games missed due to injury". Maybe that doesn't change the outcome, but Roy is not last year's Roy and hasn't been all season.

Edit: maxiep and Minstrel already beat me to it.

The fact we still have Roy instead of a more physically able player doesn't make Cho look all that stellar as a GM.

Trading Bayless to free up PT for Patty and Rudy and Wes was a wise move, as was getting Wallace it seems.

We still have no PGOTF, or reliable COTF.

The Choad so far seems cautious and methodical, refusing to be pressured into making a mistake. I hope he completely addresses our needs this summer.

I give him a B-.

 

[blazerboy30]

The fact we still have Roy instead of a more physically able player doesn't make Cho look all that stellar as a GM.

Please suggest some trades that might have worked for moving Roy, considering Roy's health and contract.

 

[HailBlazers]

More to the point, in terms of evaluating his performance as a GM, I viewed the first deal as "not a good one." Unless Cho was already talking with Jordan and knew he needed the pick to get Wallace, it makes more sense to view them as individual deals....one poor deal (in my opinion) and one great one.

Well actually the Blazers (Miller) had been talking with the Bobcats for a couple years now. I would venture to say that Rich Cho knew he was going to need some extra assets to make a deadline splash. Cho strikes me as a long term thinker, therefor I conclude the Bayless trade was made with the intent of using the pick down the line for a star piece. IMO they are indeed connected:

"It's probably not a championship-contender right now," said Cho, who was introduced Monday as the ninth general manager in Trail Blazers history. "It's probably one or two pieces away."

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2010/07/blazers_rich_cho_introduced_as.html

 

[Minstrel]

Well actually the Blazers (Miller) had been talking with the Bobcats for a couple years now. I would venture to say that Rich Cho knew he was going to need some extra assets to make a deadline splash. Cho strikes me as a long term thinker, therefor I conclude the Bayless trade was made with the intent of using the pick down the line for a star piece. IMO they are indeed connected:

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2010/07/blazers_rich_cho_introduced_as.html

If he made the deal with the specific Wallace deal in mind, I agree that they should be merged that the Bayless deal shouldn't be evaluated alone. If Cho made the Bayless deal just to have a first-round pick as future trade ammunition, but didn't already have the Wallace deal mapped out, then I still think the Bayless deal deserves to be judged individually.

 

[MickZagger]

If he made the deal with the specific Wallace deal in mind, I agree that they should be merged that the Bayless deal shouldn't be evaluated alone. If Cho made the Bayless deal just to have a first-round pick as future trade ammunition, but didn't already have the Wallace deal mapped out, then I still think the Bayless deal deserves to be judged individually.

I don't think thats too far-fetched of an idea. Cho comes from this new generation of GM that believes in collecting as much assets as possible for options down the road.

People are crazy if they think that Bayless was any kind of difference maker on this team.

 

[Boob-No-More]

The fact we still have Roy instead of a more physically able player doesn't make Cho look all that stellar as a GM.

Yes, because every other GM in the league is looking to give up physically able players for one with two bad knees and a huge contract.

Cho inherited Roy's bad knees and bad contract. Hard to blame that one on him. Or that fact he didn't pull off TWO damaged-goods-for-gold trades at the deadline. Esepcially, since this one would have been damaged goods with a 5 year max. deal, rather than damaged goods with an expiring contract.

BNM

 

[Minstrel]

I don't think thats too far-fetched of an idea. Cho comes from this new generation of GM that believes in collecting as much assets as possible for options down the road.

What's not too far-fetched an idea? That he was working on the Wallace deal since the day he made the Bayless deal or that he was just collecting fungible assets for the future but with no specific deal yet in mind? The second definitely isn't far-fetched...in fact, it's the overwhelming likelihood in my mind. The first seems unlikely but certainly not impossible.

If it was the second, then the two deals should be viewed and evaluated independently, IMO.

 

[oldmangrouch]

You consider a bench of:

Rudy
Camby
Joel
Matthews
Bayless

"one of the worst benches in the league"? Interesting.

Bayless was traded. Joel was far from 100% recovered from injury. Camby and Matthews were starters.

What is your point?

 

[blazerboy30]

Bayless was traded. Joel was far from 100% recovered from injury. Camby and Matthews were starters.

Swap Camby for Oden. Oden on the bench makes your statement of "worst bench" even more ridiculous.

Matthews was a starter? Laughable. Do you follow the Blazers?

What is your point?

My point is that you are just digging deep to hate on Cho. You said:

History is what it is. The Blazers started the season with one of the worst benches in the league. This lack of depth, and the fatigue it caused, was an obvious handicap to the team. That's on the GM.

Either:

1) You are just making up reasons to hate on Cho
2) You honestly think that a bench of Rudy, Joel, Camby (or Oden), Matthews and Bayless is one of the worst in the league... which gives a good indication of your lack of credibility when evaluating basketball talent.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Swap Camby for Oden. Oden on the bench makes your statement of "worst bench" even more ridiculous.

Matthews was a starter? Laughable. Do you follow the Blazers?




My point is that you are just digging deep to hate on Cho. You said:



Either:

1) You are just making up reasons to hate on Cho
2) You honestly think that a bench of Rudy, Joel, Camby (or Oden), Matthews and Bayless is one of the worst in the league... which gives a good indication of your lack of credibility when evaluating basketball talent.

Dude, put down the crack pipe. Your statement only makes sense if you assume the Blazers had no idea Oden, Roy, and Joel were hurt.

If that's your argument, you are the one with no credibility.

 

[Ed O]

People are crazy if they think that Bayless was any kind of difference maker on this team.

Who expected him to be a difference-maker at age 21?

He's young and he's shown bursts of very good production. His net present value was higher than a mid-first rounder, IMO, and that is why it was a bad deal at the time, and (a) the Blazers' utter lack of quality backup PG play, and (b) Bayless's play this year at age 22 both reinforce my feelings at the time.

Ed O.