OT Roe V Wade In Trouble

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SlyPokerDog said:
I can't remember how old your daughter is but if you haven't already you will soon enough have to explain to her about good touches and bad touches. When you explain that to a kid you have to keep the message clear so it is easily understood. You don't teach a little kid that grandpa bad touches are worse than mailman bad touches. In her limited understanding of the world, she's not going to grasp your adult rationalizations or the degrees of violation she might suffer.

If god forbid your daughter was abused you wouldn't turn to your wife and say thank god it was a stranger and not your brother. Because no matter who abused your daughter it would be equally as horrific as you guided and helped in her healing.

No matter who abused your daughter, as a loving parent your reaction to it is going to be the same. If, as might be in this case, a parent is part of the problem and others have to step in, their response in helping her heal is going to be the same whether the girl knew or didn't know her abuser.

If you had to get help for your daughter you're not going to accept some arbitrary ranking by your insurance company that she gets only 5 counseling sessions because she was raped by a stranger but if she had been raped by a family member she would get 10 counseling sessions.

We're talking about 10yr old little girl. Someone who has a limited understanding of what has happened to her and even a more limited understanding of why her body is reacting to it like it is. In my opinion, there is no degree of horrific to this.
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I guess we're just going to disagree, but I leave you with this...

When my daughter is hurt or upset she runs to mom and dad. We are her comfort and safety. Who does she run to for comfort and safety if it's the parents who committed the violation of trust?

I get that you're saying that all rape is bad, but you can't tell me that the trauma of a parent being involved isn't going to have a different impact to her than if it's a stranger. I just can't agree with that.
 
Republicans voted against contraception bill because either they think birth control should be outlawed or they want the far right Christian dominionists to think they want to outlaw birth control or because voting against everything is owning the libs.
Or all the above.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Yes, I get your point and no you're not sorry.

Parent, friend, stranger, it doesn't matter who. It's horrific for the child. Ranking which is worse is dumb.
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The courts disagree with you and they rank them. But thanks for saying our opinion, which aligns with the courts, is dumb. :)

https://vindicatelaw.com/sex-crimes/rape-defense/rape-first-second-third-degree/

First degree rape is the non-consensual sexual penetration, typically committed by threat of harm or force. It can also occur is a person is incapacitated, or unable to give consent. Rape in the second degree is called “statutory rape.” Second Degree rape usually involved legally non-consensual intercourse.
upload_2022-7-22_6-54-44.png
https://jpcannonlawfirm.com › seco...
Second Degree Rape | Cannon & Associates
 

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South Carolina considering a law that would make it a crime to post abortion information on line.
 
We watched this documentary the other night and really enjoyed it.

 
ABM is OK with a raped 10 year old having to leave the state. A woman bleeding out for ten days. A woman forced to undergo labor to deliver non viable fetus. A woman with partial miscarriage having to wait until she was septic to get fetal remains removed.

Own it. This is what you wanted.

And when women die, and they will, own it. It's what you wanted. You voted twice for a person you knew was incompetent and corrupt just to be able to force your will on women's bodies.

Raped children, dead women, own it all. It's what you prayed, and voted, for.
 
crandc said:
ABM is OK with a raped 10 year old having to leave the state. A woman bleeding out for ten days. A woman forced to undergo labor to deliver non viable fetus. A woman with partial miscarriage having to wait until she was septic to get fetal remains removed.

Own it. This is what you wanted.

And when women die, and they will, own it. It's what you wanted. You voted twice for a person you knew was incompetent and corrupt just to be able to force your will on women's bodies.

Raped children, dead women, own it all. It's what you prayed, and voted, for.
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Ding ding ding. It's why I no longer play nice with hypocritical republican fascists. That is what they are; hateful, ignorant fascists without a shred of human dignity.
 
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People can change. Not all of course, but some can. I just hope we allow those who need change or others want to change, the opportunity to do so.
 
Yes, people can change. Some people who thought they just didn't feel comfortable with abortion might change when they see the real world consequences of overturning Roe. But those for whom it was their chief goal for 50 years, who could accept any corrupt incompetent official just in hopes of forcing themselves on women, they are very unlikely to change.
 
crandc said:
Yes, people can change. Some people who thought they just didn't feel comfortable with abortion might change when they see the real world consequences of overturning Roe. But those for whom it was their chief goal for 50 years, who could accept any corrupt incompetent official just in hopes of forcing themselves on women, they are very unlikely to change.
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Most cliches are just that. But some actually hold merit.
Cant teach an old dog new tricks.
While there Is always the exception to the rule, this is one of them. Just ask @SlyPokerDog :)
But I get ya. The key is stemming the passing on of suppressive beliefs some of the elders have that wont change.
 
My good friend is a devout practicing Catholic. She was taught abortion is always wrong. But she said she can't judge what someone does in a situation she herself never faced.
 
Tyrant of Ants said:
I don't see many people supporting late term abortion for non-medical reasons. I'd much rather save an actual human than one that's debatable. And sorry, you'd have to bend reality to see this as a human:

Zygote1.jpg
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So, sounds like we’re in agreement. Pro-choice early on. Medical necessity late term.
 
e_blazer said:
So, sounds like we’re in agreement. Pro-choice early on. Medical necessity late term.
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But late term abortions that aren't medically necessary very rarely ever happen.

By allowing government overreach in the hopes of preventing something that basically never happens we will be causing far greater loss of life and suffering...

This is not acceptable. And we should be very vocal about that.
 
Phatguysrule said:
But late term abortions that aren't medically necessary very rarely ever happen.

By allowing government overreach in the hopes of preventing something that basically never happens we will be causing far greater loss of life and suffering...

This is not acceptable. And we should be very vocal about that.
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If it basically never happens, I don’t see how it causes far greater loss of life and suffering. I’m okay with leaving the decision to the woman and her doctor as to whether it’s medically necessary.
 
e_blazer said:
If it basically never happens, I don’t see how it causes far greater loss of life and suffering. I’m okay with leaving the decision to the woman and her doctor as to whether it’s medically necessary.
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Because the radical states will outlaw most/all abortions causing women to make a choice between having babies they do not want/aren't ready for, and having a far more dangerous DIY option.

This will result in far higher crime rates and lower economic output.

So in trying to forcibly prohibit something that very rarely ever happens and has no negative impact on society we're going to make us all suffer more, and there will be far more deaths by women trying to handle it themselves. .
 
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Late term abortions are less than 2% of all abortions. They are medical emergencies for the woman, severe fetal defects that don't show on earlier tests, or occasionally denial. Rape victims, especially very young, can't face the fact they are pregnant from rape, keep telling themselves their period is late due to stress, until they just can't deny it any longer.
I can't see punishing these women.
But punishing and shaming women and girls is precisely what forced birthers are all about. It's why they oppose anything that can reduce unwanted pregnancy and anything that helps women with children make ends meet.
 
I always finish my morning newspaper with Dear Abby.

Some years ago laws were passed making it easier for adults who had been molested or raped as children to bring charges.

A woman wrote to Abby. She knew her husband was raping their teenage daughters but the bible says the husband is head of the family as Christ is head of the church and women have the duty to be submissive. She taught her daughters that and also to bear their cross patiently. The daughters, now young adults, had brought charges of rape against their father. And the mother was outraged that she had become a pariah in her neighborhood. After all, she was bringing up her daughters in accordance with the bible. It was a Christian home! How dare people be mean to her?

Abby wasn't having any. Don't recall exact reply but something like a mother's first duty is to protect her children.

Yeah. A mother mouse will fight to defend her children. This woman let them be raped. For years. Because her god said so.

Around the same time charges were brought against a minister who, you guessed it, railed against birth control and abortion, for repeatedly raping his three daughters. By the time they were out of their teens, they had had 10 abortions between them. Pregnant by their father.
If you cheered over turning Roe you have to own this. That you think it would have been better for these teens to birth 10 children of incest.
 
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e_blazer said:
If it basically never happens, I don’t see how it causes far greater loss of life and suffering. I’m okay with leaving the decision to the woman and her doctor as to whether it’s medically necessary.
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Because all abortions will be made illegal regardless of circumstances in alot of places.

Alot more back alley abortions.

Scores of women who have partial miscarriages or has other issues were the fetus has passed and they can't get it removed...which we have already seen since Roe V Wade was overturned can't get medical help until they are near death will end up dying.

And that's just a couple of examples.
 
calvin natt said:
I think I’d pay any money I have to fight this guy. Resulting in his death of course.
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It wouldn't be much of a fight and wouldn't be worth the consequences.
 
Chris Craig said:
Because all abortions will be made illegal regardless of circumstances in alot of places.

Alot more back alley abortions.

Scores of women who have partial miscarriages or has other issues were the fetus has passed and they can't get it removed...which we have already seen since Roe V Wade was overturned can't get medical help until they are near death will end up dying.

And that's just a couple of examples.
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We were talking in the theoretical, Chris. If it was decided that abortion was permitted outright for the first two trimesters, but only allowed for medical reasons in the third; and if virtually no third trimester abortions occur at all as was suggested, how does that drastically increase women’s suffering?

I’m well aware that many states will choose to ban all abortions as a result of the recent SCOTUS decision.
 
e_blazer said:
We were talking in the theoretical, Chris. If it was decided that abortion was permitted outright for the first two trimesters, but only allowed for medical reasons in the third; and if virtually no third trimester abortions occur at all as was suggested, how does that drastically increase women’s suffering?

I’m well aware that many states will choose to ban all abortions as a result of the recent SCOTUS decision.
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Have chosen, my guy... will choose was last month.
 
There are big differences among disabilities. A child with no brain function is a lot different from one who is neat sighted. I have not seen evidence that doctors are falsely telling patients the fetus had severe disabilities.
 
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