OT Roe V Wade In Trouble

[Orion Bailey]

I did. You brought up science, so I tried to tie science into it the best way possible. If you are using the scientific method while looking at this issue, that is where it will lead you.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt and didn't spell that all out, thinking you were interested in having an actual conversation.

I do apologize if I was mistaken.

i am. It just seems contradicting, the first senatnace compared to the last is all. Now i understand what you were saying was not to follow science per say, but if one wanted, thats where it would go.

 

[RR7]

Thats all im saying. Isnt there a way for us all to stop the wheel somewhere in between and move on?

How do you do that when there's a group that wants to take a woman's rights away? There isn't a middle ground there.

 

[Chris Craig]

Thats all im saying. Isnt there a way for us all to stop the wheel somewhere in between and move on?

There already is. Women can't get an abortion past 24 weeks (with the exception that bringing the baby to birth would kill the baby or the mother, and such)

 

[Orion Bailey]

How do you do that when there's a group that wants to take a woman's rights away? There isn't a middle ground there.

Well first, i think we need to get rid of these stigmas that people want to take a womans rights away. Yes there are male pigs out there who want to suppress women, but the bulk of anti abortionists are not against womens rights at all. Some are women them selves.
They are against abortions and they see them as separate.
So i think the first step in trying to get anywhere is get the negative labels out of the equation.
But yeah the next would be trying to nail down the growth of the fertilized egg and where the majority feels life starts.
As in most all things, there wont be a 100% consensus. But we can still find a majority consensus can we not?

 

[Orion Bailey]

There already is. Women can't get an abortion past 24 weeks (with the exception that bringing the baby to birth would kill the baby or the mother, and such)

That holding up in Texas?

 

[Chris Craig]

Well first, i think we need to get rid of these stigmas that people want to take a womans rights away. Yes there are male pigs out there who want to suppress women, but the bulk of anti abortionists are not against womens rights at all. Some are women them selves.
They are against abortions and they see them as separate.
So i think the first step in trying to get anywhere is get the negative labels out of the equation.
But yeah the next would be trying to nail down the growth of the fertilized egg and where the majority feels life starts.
As in most all things, there wont be a 100% consensus. But we can still find a majority consensus can we not?

It's not a man's business.

How would you feel if the government tried to make a law saying you couldn't ejaculate unless you were conceiving a child? How would you feel if the government or let's say women tried to control your sperm?

 

[Chris Craig]

That holding up in Texas?

For now

Trying to control women there

Not going to turn out good

Only reason the new law gained any chance of coming to fruit is because of bunch of dudes decided they wanted to control women's bodies.

 

[RR7]

Well first, i think we need to get rid of these stigmas that people want to take a womans rights away. Yes there are male pigs out there who want to suppress women, but the bulk of anti abortionists are not against womens rights at all. Some are women them selves.
They are against abortions and they see them as separate.
So i think the first step in trying to get anywhere is get the negative labels out of the equation.
But yeah the next would be trying to nail down the growth of the fertilized egg and where the majority feels life starts.
As in most all things, there wont be a 100% consensus. But we can still find a majority consensus can we not?

If you dictate the medical care that a woman can or can nor get, that is taking her rights away. Whether you it because of a fetus inside her or for whatever reason is irrelevant, IMO. It's dictating what she can or can not do with her body.

 

[Orion Bailey]

It's not a man's business.

How would you feel if the government tried to make a law saying you couldn't ejaculate unless you were conceiving a child? How would you feel if the government or let's say women tried to control your sperm?

Apples to oranges. My speem hasnt fertilized anything.

 

[Chris Craig]

Apples to oranges. My speem hasnt fertilized anything.

But, sperm are alive

And you didn't answer

You wouldn't be happy. You'd be against that wouldn't you?

 

[Orion Bailey]

If you dictate the medical care that a woman can or can nor get, that is taking her rights away. Whether you it because of a fetus inside her or for whatever reason is irrelevant, IMO. It's dictating what she can or can not do with her body.

unless the pregnancy is causing the mother health issues, an abortion is not a medical care.

 

[RR7]

It's not a man's business.

How would you feel if the government tried to make a law saying you couldn't ejaculate unless you were conceiving a child? How would you feel if the government or let's say women tried to control your sperm?

Shit, with my recent vasectomy, that might put me on trial for genocide.

 

[RR7]

unless the pregnancy is causing the mother health issues, an abortion is not a medical care.

It's preventative care. Is a vasectomy not medical care then?

 

[Orion Bailey]

But, sperm are alive

To me this is semantics. This is like arguing a woman cant use birth control to kill her egg.
Not the same as having an abortion to kill a fertilized egg.
Again. Apples to oranges in my opinion.
Sperm shouldn't be compared to a fetus. It should be compared to an unfertilized egg.

 

[Orion Bailey]

It's preventative care. Is a vasectomy not medical care then?

No. Its not medical care. Its not going to improve your health. Its a chosen medical procedure.

Agaim you are comparing your unfertilized sperm to a fertilized fetus. Apples to oranges. A vasectomy is comparable to a woman having her tubes tied. Not an abortion….

 

[RR7]

No. Its not medical care. Its not going to improve your health. Its a chosen medical procedure.

Agaim you are comparing your unfertilized sperm to a fertilized fetus. Apples to oranges. A vasectomy is comparable to a woman having her tubes tied. Not an abortion….

So you're just arguing the use of the term medical care versus medical procedure?

 

[Orion Bailey]

If you dictate the medical care that a woman can or can nor get, that is taking her rights away. Whether you it because of a fetus inside her or for whatever reason is irrelevant, IMO. It's dictating what she can or can not do with her body.

To me abortion isnt medical care. Its not improving her health. Its a chosen medical procedure.
Maybe semantics, but one is aimed at improving the health. The other is not.

 

[Orion Bailey]

So you're just arguing the use of the term medical care versus medical procedure?

read again. Im pretty sure i mentioned more than just that.

 

[RR7]

To me abortion isnt medical care. Its not improving her health. Its a chosen medical procedure.
Maybe semantics, but one is aimed at improving the health. The other is not.

Care is also used for maintaining health, not just improving it. An abortion would help a woman to maintain her current level of health.

 

[Orion Bailey]

It's preventative care. Is a vasectomy not medical care then?

preventative in what way? What of your health will deteriorate if you don't have a vasectomy or what health of a woman's deteriorates if she doesn't have an abortion?

 

[Orion Bailey]

Care is also used for maintaining health, not just improving it. An abortion would help a woman to maintain her current level of health.

pregnancies are unhealthy in nature?

 

[RR7]

preventative in what way? What of your health will deteriorate if you don't have a vasectomy or what health of a woman's deteriorates if she doesn't have an abortion?

An abortion is preventing a pregnancy. Do you believe nothing in a woman's body changes when she is pregnant?

 

[RR7]

pregnancies are unhealthy in nature?

Maintaining current level of health. I said nothing of unhealthy

 

[Orion Bailey]

An abortion is preventing a pregnancy. Do you believe nothing in a woman's body changes when she is pregnant?

changes sure. Are those changes unhealthy though?
What about a pregnancy is unhealthy and should be prevented? Lets stick with physical health. Mental health there could be an argument made for.

 

[riverman]

So let me get this straight....if a piece of mucus in the womb is alive then men who get women pregnant out of wedlock should pay child and alimony support from the day of conception...hit them in the pocketbook and they'll bend the rules...the rest of this argument is theological, not scientific....science would not encourage a damaged fetus to go to term...a religious leader would...to me upsetting Roe vs Wade is getting us closer to becoming the Taliban..

 

[RR7]

changes sure. Are those changes unhealthy though?
What about a pregnancy is unhealthy and should be prevented? Lets stick with physical health. Mental health there could be an argument made for.

I'm not saying its unhealthy, you keep adding that. A pregnancy makes changes to a woman's body. An abortion PREVENTS those changes. They're changes that woman deems undesirable. So she has a procedure done that could be viewed as preventative care.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I'm not saying its unhealthy, you keep adding that. A pregnancy makes changes to a woman's body. An abortion PREVENTS those changes. They're changes that woman deems undesirable. So she has a procedure done that could be viewed as preventative care.

But if those changes don't provide a health risk but also prevents future life, the only thing not desirable is being a parent?

adoption.

i have to go. Work meeting. Not ignoring you if you respond and i dont until later.

 

[RR7]

But if those changes don't provide a health risk but also prevents future life, the only thing not desirable is being a parent?

adoption.
.

ANd we're back to dictating what a woman can do with her body, and making qualifiers that there has to be some sort of medical issue, and not just the desire to not be a parent. Yes, we can respond with, if you don't want to be a parent, don't have sex, use protection, etc. But that doesn't help the discussion.

 

[Orion Bailey]

ANd we're back to dictating what a woman can do with her body, and making qualifiers that there has to be some sort of medical issue, and not just the desire to not be a parent. Yes, we can respond with, if you don't want to be a parent, don't have sex, use protection, etc. But that doesn't help the discussion.

im not dictating. Just pointing out there are choices.

its also a choice for a lady to have an illegal abortion vs give up for adoption.

 

[RR7]

im not dictating. Just pointing out there are choices.

its also a choice for a lady to have an illegal abortion vs give up for adoption.

I mean, ok? Just stating "Adoption" doesn't seem relative to a discussion about a woman's right to choose.