Rubio in the Olympics

[PapaG]

I keep seeing many Blazer fans wanting to make a move for Rubio, even if it means taking back a huge contract in return. As support, I keep seeing his play in the Olympics referenced. Remembering how unimpressed I was with him over most of the Olympics, I decided to look up his stats from the tournament. Here is what I found.

PPG - 4.8
RPG - 4
APG - 3
TOPG - 2
SPG - 2.1
BPG - 0.1
MPG- 18.5
Fouls - 2.1

FG - 28%
3PT - 16%
FT - 78

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/08...son//teamnumber/362/fe_teamPlay_playStat.html

Now, that's not bad, but it also isn't anything noteworthy other than his being 18 years-old. What these numbers tell me is that Rubio is years away from being ready to lead an NBA team to a title.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I keep seeing many Blazer fans wanting to make a move for Rubio, even if it means taking back a huge contract in return. As support, I keep seeing his play in the Olympics referenced. Remembering how unimpressed I was with him over most of the Olympics, I decided to look up his stats from the tournament. Here is what I found.

PPG - 4.8
RPG - 4
APG - 3
TOPG - 2
SPG - 2.1
BPG - 0.1

FG - 28%
3PT - 16%
FT - 78

Now, that's not bad, but it also isn't anything noteworthy other than his being 18 years-old. What these numbers tell me is that Rubio is years away from being ready to lead an NBA team to a title.

I thought he was the next Pete Maravich? Maybe people mean the next Todd Marinovich

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

He was 17 years old at the time, mind you.

 

[Spud147]

I keep seeing many Blazer fans wanting to make a move for Rubio, even if it means taking back a huge contract in return. As support, I keep seeing his play in the Olympics referenced. Remembering how unimpressed I was with him over most of the Olympics, I decided to look up his stats from the tournament. Here is what I found.

PPG - 4.8
RPG - 4
APG - 3
TOPG - 2
SPG - 2.1
BPG - 0.1
MPG- 18.5
Fouls - 2.1

FG - 28%
3PT - 16%
FT - 78

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/08...son//teamnumber/362/fe_teamPlay_playStat.html

Now, that's not bad, but it also isn't anything noteworthy other than his being 18 years-old. What these numbers tell me is that Rubio is years away from being ready to lead an NBA team to a title.

I'm with you PapaG, let's see what we can do with Bayless. I don't think we should give away the talent required to get that high of a draft pick for another PG project.

 

[PapaG]

He was 17 years old at the time, mind you.

Which is extremely relevant to his being able to lead an NBA team with title aspirations. He was fairly mediocre-to-poor in the Olympics, and his assist/TO ratio is frankly surprising considering some of the garbage teams in the Olympics.

 

[PapaG]

I'm with you PapaG, let's see what we can do with Bayless. I don't think we should give away the talent required to get that high of a draft pick for another PG project.

As usual, you were much more succinct in expressing your point. I agree 100%. I'm not insulting Rubio, either. I just don't see how he improves the team next year. Frankly, I'd rather have Blake running the point ahead of Rubio, and trading up high to get Rubio means he'll want to play.

 

[andalusian]

I hate this discussion - because it ignores the kid's role on the team and it provides a very small sample...

If we were to use the same method to evaluate him against Jason Kidd he would look like gold...


Kidd (USA) | Rubio (ESP)

PPG 1.6 | 4.8
RPG 2.6 | 4
ORPG 0.8 | 1.4
DRPG 1.9 | 2.6
ASPG 2 | 3
TOPG 1.5 | 2
FG2P% 100% | 35%
FG3P% 50% | 16.7%
FT% 0% | 78.3%


----

Should we assume that Kidd can not lead an NBA team based on these stats?

Rubio is a prospect - probably one of the better ones out there. Of course he will not come into the league, put a team on his back and carry them to the Larry O'brian trophy. But - if you have a chance drafting him without breaking the core of your team - you would be silly not to, unless you know for sure that the Meteor is heading for earth and will hit before the 2010 Summer League starts...

 

[Minstrel]

As usual, you were much more succinct in expressing your point. I agree 100%. I'm not insulting Rubio, either. I just don't see how he improves the team next year. Frankly, I'd rather have Blake running the point ahead of Rubio, and trading up high to get Rubio means he'll want to play.

I'm very high on Rubio and I don't expect Rubio to major impact player next year. Ideally, I'd like to trade Bayless in a package to acquire Rubio, clear out Sergio and either keep Blake or deal for someone like Hinrich. That provides the veteran bridge for a season or two, allows Rubio to play significant minutes as the primary back-up and then Rubio takes over in a couple of seasons and, hopefully, gives Portland a top-tier point guard.

 

[Ed O]

I don't know of anyone who thinks that Rubio is going to step right in and be an all-star level PG as a rookie, or even as a second-year player... teenage all-star point guards are very very rare, indeed.

Rubio was a key component, as a 17 year-old, to the second-best basketball team in the world. He did not have a strong tournament statistically, but I don't think anyone has claimed that he did.

Ed O.

 

[Cake]

For comparison: Jose Calderon in the Olympics

20 mpg
7.3 pts
3 rebounds
1 assist
40% fg
33% 3pts

Calderon is damn near 10 years older than Rubio and averaged 13 pts, 9 assists on nearly 50% fg shooting (40% from three) in the NBA last season.

One tourny doesn't mean shit.

 

[bigbailes]

i wouldn't want to give up the farm to get rubio but if all it took at 24, bayless and a couple 2nd rounders, i'd do it in a heartbeat. this kid could be very special and a great player, now he could also be a bust but i see his potential far out shining bayless'. of course this all assumes that we have a different head coach, because i'm still not sure that nate would ever let the reigns off of rubio.

 

[PapaG]

For comparison: Jose Calderon in the Olympics

20 mpg
7.3 pts
3 rebounds
1 assist
40% fg
33% 3pts

Calderon is damn near 10 years older than Rubio and averaged 13 pts, 9 assists on nearly 50% fg shooting (40% from three) in the NBA last season.

One tourny doesn't mean shit.

Calderon played on a non-playoff team and as far as I can tell, he's never been compared to Pete Maravich and other all-time greats. Yet Calderon clearly outplayed Rubio in the Olympics.

 

[Ed O]

Calderon played on a non-playoff team and as far as I can tell, he's never been compared to Pete Maravich and other all-time greats. Yet Calderon clearly outplayed Rubio in the Olympics.

Rubio is almost the player that Calderon is, in spite of being nearly a decade younger.

You understand that players who are really young have higher upside, all other things being equal, than older players... right?

Ed O.

 

[Spud147]

i wouldn't want to give up the farm to get rubio but if all it took at 24, bayless and a couple 2nd rounders, i'd do it in a heartbeat. this kid could be very special and a great player, now he could also be a bust but i see his potential far out shining bayless'. of course this all assumes that we have a different head coach, because i'm still not sure that nate would ever let the reigns off of rubio.

If Memphis is that desperate (i.e. fire sale), then heck yeah I'd make that trade.

That's way beyond being Pritch-slapped.

 

[Cake]

Calderon played on a non-playoff team and as far as I can tell, he's never been compared to Pete Maravich and other all-time greats. Yet Calderon clearly outplayed Rubio in the Olympics.

That's not much of an argument.

My point, which I'll make again, is that Calderon's statistics in the Olympics didn't match his statistics in the NBA. He performed much better in the NBA than he did in the Olympics. The Olympics were not a good measure of his production in the NBA.

So projecting poor NBA performance onto Rubio from his performance in the Olympics is asinine.

It doesn't matter whether Toronto is a playoff team.

I don't care who or what Ricky Rubio has been compared to. Why would that matter? What matters is whether or not he has the ability to perform in the NBA.

 

[PapaG]

Rubio is almost the player that Calderon is, in spite of being nearly a decade younger.

You understand that players who are really young have higher upside, all other things being equal, than older players... right?

Ed O.

Of course I do, but it's also possible that Rubio is much closer to his ceiling than other players. Or, maybe the sky is the limit, but I don't see how he's ready to lead a team to an NBA title until near the end of his rookie contract in a best-case scenario. Plus, he's a gambler on defense who has more trouble than Blake keeping his man from penetrating. In ACB he was playing in a zone, for Pete's sake.

 

[PapaG]

That's not much of an argument.

My point, which I'll make again, is that Calderon's statistics in the Olympics didn't match his statistics in the NBA. He performed much better in the NBA than he did in the Olympics. The Olympics were not a good measure of his production in the NBA.

So projecting poor NBA performance onto Rubio from his performance in the Olympics is asinine.

It doesn't matter whether Toronto is a playoff team.

I don't care who or what Ricky Rubio has been compared to. Why would that matter? What matters is whether or not he has the ability to perform in the NBA.

I shouldn't have argued Calderon versus Rubio since that comparison has nothing to do with how Rubio immediately impacts the Blazers, and I didn't project poor NBA performance onto Rubio other than to say he isn't ready to lead a team to a title right now.

 

[Reep]

If you had your choice between a PG with great numbers or one who helped lead his team to be one of the top two in the world, who would you choose?

If you don't like Rubio, then you must really hate Batum. His numbers suck. I happen to really like him because his contribution is so much more than the numbers.

I don't know if Rubio will be an all-star PG, but he sure as heck did a solid job of leading his team (in minutes too) to a solid effort against one of the impressive teams ever to be assembled.

Look past the numbers.


Re: Bayless, I like him too. I don't really know which would be best because Bayless hasn't shown much yet. Unlike tlong, I'm not as good a talent evaluator as KP, so I will trust his judgment.

I'm sure KP benefits as well from talking to Rudy about Rubio's talent level.

 

[PapaG]

If you had your choice between a PG with great numbers or one who helped lead his team to be one of the top two in the world, who would you choose?

If you don't like Rubio, then you must really hate Batum. His numbers suck. I happen to really like him because his contribution is so much more than the numbers.

I don't know if Rubio will be an all-star PG, but he sure as heck did a solid job of leading his team (in minutes too) to a solid effort against one of the impressive teams ever to be assembled.

Look past the numbers.


Re: Bayless, I like him too. I don't really know which would be best because Bayless hasn't shown much yet. Unlike tlong, I'm not as good a talent evaluator as KP, so I will trust his judgment.

I'm sure KP benefits as well from talking to Rudy about Rubio's talent level.

That's a strawman, and I don't dislike Rubio other than he makes a 54-win team worse next season IMO if he is handed the point. Does anybody actually read the posts?

 

[SodaPopinski]

Rubio = square peg; Our offense = round hole

NEXT

 

[PapaG]

Rubio = square peg; Our offense = round hole

NEXT

And that's the strength of his game, unless Nate is planning on letting both Rudy and Rubio roam around in a zone set on defense.

 

[Blaze01]

Wasn't Rubio was playing with a hand\wrist injury in the Olympics? I know it affected him for a fair amount of games with DKV Jovenut....like the one Jennings blasted him about (his 1st game back & playing with his wrist wrapped)....

 

[Blaze01]

Rubio = square peg; Our offense = round hole

Yes ...and that is CLEARLY why we shouldn't even think about pursuing a Chris Paul, Tony Parker or Steve Nash for that matter....



If the kid can play, then Nate will play him...It wasn't Segio's "style" that kept him held back by Nate, it was his lapses on defense, careless turnovers and inability to hit an outside shot\create his own offense....great passing\court vision is a very nice ability to have, but it doesn't do you much good if you can't bring anything else to the floor...and many nights Sergio couldn't do that....

 

[PapaG]

Yes ...and that is CLEARLY why we shouldn't even think about pursuing a Chris Paul, Tony Parker or Steve Nash for that matter....

Are you comparing Rubio to Paul, Parker, and Nash? How so, at least in terms of what they could do next season to help the Blazers.

If the kid can play, then Nate will play him...It wasn't Segio's "style" that kept him held back by Nate, it was his lapses on defense, careless turnovers and inability to hit an outside shot\create his own offense....great passing\court vision is a very nice ability to have, but it doesn't do you much good if you can't bring anything else to the floor...and many nights Sergio couldn't do that....

It isn't outside of the realm of possibility that these same things may be said about Rubio in 3 years.

 

[BrianFromWA]

For the freaking love.

Tell me what (one-and-done Lottery Prospect X), in his one year in college, and his "one freaking tourney" (called March Madness) or overseas did that Ricky Rubio didn't accomplish in a) a more competitive league, b) against better players, c) who were around 8-10 years older than he, d) getting him selected for the Olympic team, backing up high-quality NBA PG Jose Calderon, e) while racking up accolades like Defensive Player of the Year, f) while also being compared by various scouts, analysts, GMs and executives to Magic Johnson, Drazen Petrovic and Pete Maravich for his court vision and leadership, g) putting up wins this year while recovering from a broken hand (iirc), h) holding his own in the Olympic Final against the ReDream Team guards at the ripe age of 17.

Jerryd Bayless? Nope.
LMA? Nope.
Bogut? Bargnani? Tyrus? O'bryant? Sene? Sefalosha? Conley? Yi? Wright? Hawes? Thaddeus Young? Julian Wright? Westbrook? Love? Gallinari? Gordon? Randolph?

You could maybe make a case that Durant, Beasley, Mayo, and Rose in the last 3 years have had a better resume. Oden didn't light the world afire at OSU, he was "projected" to be great. And the reason they have "better" resumes is, imo, stat-based. None of those guys accomplished a championship like 'Melo did. Rose was the only one to get to the Final Four. None of those guys are even mentioned as an average defender or team player. Not like, say, Rubio.

Seems awfully xenophobic to me.

 

[PapaG]

For the freaking love.

Tell me what (one-and-done Lottery Prospect X), in his one year in college, and his "one freaking tourney" (called March Madness) or overseas did that Ricky Rubio didn't accomplish in a) a more competitive league, b) against better players, c) who were around 8-10 years older than he, d) getting him selected for the Olympic team, backing up high-quality NBA PG Jose Calderon, e) while racking up accolades like Defensive Player of the Year, f) while also being compared by various scouts, analysts, GMs and executives to Magic Johnson, Drazen Petrovic and Pete Maravich for his court vision and leadership, g) putting up wins this year while recovering from a broken hand (iirc), h) holding his own in the Olympic Final against the ReDream Team guards at the ripe age of 17.

Jerryd Bayless? Nope.
LMA? Nope.
Bogut? Bargnani? Tyrus? O'bryant? Sene? Sefalosha? Conley? Yi? Wright? Hawes? Thaddeus Young? Julian Wright? Westbrook? Love? Gallinari? Gordon? Randolph?

You could maybe make a case that Durant, Beasley, Mayo, and Rose in the last 3 years have had a better resume. Oden didn't light the world afire at OSU, he was "projected" to be great. And the reason they have "better" resumes is, imo, stat-based. None of those guys accomplished a championship like 'Melo did. Rose was the only one to get to the Final Four.

Seems awfully xenophobic to me.

That's not even close to addressing the point I was making about Rubio impacting the team next season in terms of winning a championship. Nice rant, though. A bit odd coming from a guy who wants more experience on the team, but that's our board for ya.

What in Rubio's Olympic performance tells you he improves the team next year? Also, the "xenophobic" blast is totally uncalled for since I was/is one of the posters most pro-Rudy after he was drafted, after the Olympics, and to this day.

 

[BrianFromWA]

How about this.

1) He's acknowledged as one of the best pick and roll guys in the world. Right now. At 18. We (as I'm sure you noticed) run a lot of pick-and-roll that doesn't end with the ball being passed to the roller.

2) He's acknowledge as the best defensive player in Spain, and perhaps the rest of the world. At 18. Sure, they play zone. We (as I'm sure you noticed) play a lot of zone defense.

Is that enough?

 

[PapaG]

.

Seems awfully xenophobic to me.

I have to pull this out from your post because I honestly don't get it. It never entered my mind and I never posted about his nationality other than his Olympic stats; why did it enter your mind to the point you had to smear me with it?

A serious response would be appreciated.

 

[Ed O]

Does ANYONE think that Rubio's going to be the best possible fit as the starting PG for the Blazers next year?

Seriously. Anyone?

I want the Blazers to pull out all the stops to get him, but that's because of his net present value (meaning: future production and contributions), rather than because he'd be better than Blake or Bayless next year.

PapaG appears to be painting Rubio with a wide negative brush because the general point is so obvious: 18 year-olds, no matter how good they are or great they might one day be, are almost never the best option to be PG for a championship-level team in the NBA.

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

How about this.

1) He's acknowledged as one of the best pick and roll guys in the world. Right now. At 18. We (as I'm sure you noticed) run a lot of pick-and-roll that doesn't end with the ball being passed to the roller.

2) He's acknowledge as the best defensive player in Spain, and perhaps the rest of the world. At 18. Sure, they play zone. We (as I'm sure you noticed) play a lot of zone defense.

Is that enough?

All that going for him, and he shot 20% in the Olympics with a 1.5/1 A/TO ratio. Perhaps he is overrated right now? Perhaps he choked in the Olympics. I'd think that one of the best pick and roll players in the world would be able to put up some nice stats with Pau Gasol.