Rudy Fined!

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im am so tired of the rudy saga... my god it just wont end.

its rudy freaking fernandez.... not a superstar player here. yet somehow hes always in the media or on these boards
 
BlazerCaravan said:
Are we about done with the pretense that you're not PapaG? I was impressed with how long you waited before getting into some asinine argument with EdO, but I see it didn't last long.
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What about this argument was asinine? Debate the actual content of the proof I provided on how these fines are levied, or don't. Ed O. said that Stern "definitely" could levy fines without CBA agreement. I proved otherwise in an article by Arn Tellem. I admit that the excessive fines being levied against Rudy, and their impact on the Blazers, are my opinion.

What the fuck is your point, guy? Where have I been incorrect in this thread?

Also, I already posted a thread that I was PapaG on the OT boards months ago. If I am needed to be PapaG, then I'll be PapaG, I guess.

WTF?
 
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BGrantFan said:
What about this argument was asinine? Debate the actual content of the proof I provided on how these fines are levied, or don't. Ed O. said that Stern "definitely" could levy fines without CBA agreement. I proved otherwise in an article by Arn Tellem.

What the fuck is your point, guy? Where have I been incorrect in this thread?
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You didn't prove Stern can't establish guidelines without negotiation, just that the fines are part of the CBA. Basically, you're arguing one half of a non-mutually-exclusive argument... but you were never one for the use of non-boolean logic in your arguments.
 
BlazerCaravan said:
You didn't prove Stern can't establish guidelines without negotiation, just that the fines are part of the CBA. Basically, you're arguing one half of a non-mutually-exclusive argument... but you were never one for the use of non-boolean logic in your arguments.
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Whatever. You literally added nothing to this thread about Rudy being fined.

Again, refute my substantive posts, or pretend I did not make them. Did I make up the quotes from various players that were not fined by Stern?

Why did you even enter this thread?
 
BGrantFan said:
Whatever. You literally added nothing to this thread about Rudy being fined.

Again, refute my substantive posts, or pretend I did not make them. Did I make up the quotes from various players that were not fined by Stern?

Why did you even enter this thread?
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I added nuance, and an observation about the participants. I don't refute your quotes; that's the point. I don't have to say you're wrong to say that Ed was also not necessarily wrong. I entered the thread to add exactly that nuance to the argument...

...and to make fun of you for your burning hatred of Ed. :ghoti:
 
BGrantFan said:
No. That was my opinion. Do you have proof that the fine was not subjectively administered in this instance?

It's OK to admit that you don't know everything, Ed.
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I never claimed that I did. Reread my first post in this thread, please, and you'll see that I explicitly state that I do NOT know it.

Now you're on a tangent that we both know is based in my opinion. Effective in a court room, but not effective in this thread. I admit it is my opinion on why the fine was levied, with some hyperbole sprinkled in for fun. You said that Stern "definitely" could levy fines without a change to the CBA. This has been proven incorrect. Are we still going to play this game?
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He CAN levy fines without a change to the CBA. Are you seriously arguing that he cannot? He is given a LOT of discretion. Whether he chooses to exercise it or not is a decision he makes without any negotiation. He can, though, establish guidelines to know when that discretion is going to be exercised.

You gave an opinion about why the fine was levied, and I offered alternative explanations. It appears that there have been no new guidelines published, so my first explanation seems not to be the case. My second statement is accurate--Kobe did NOT make a statement about the NBA as a whole like Rudy did--and that is still a possible factor in why Rudy was fined while Kobe was not.

It makes a lot more sense than that Stern is trying to screw over the Blazers.

Ed O.
 
Ed O said:
Were the comments of Rudy and his agent leaked? Or given on the record?
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Are you like me here? Does anyone in this thread know what the agent's comments were? Is this thread going to go on for a week and no one knows what the hell they're talking about?

(I guess that makes this a typical thread.)
 
Ed O said:
I never claimed that I did. Reread my first post in this thread, please, and you'll see that I explicitly state that I do NOT know it.



He CAN levy fines without a change to the CBA. Are you seriously arguing that he cannot? He is given a LOT of discretion. Whether he chooses to exercise it or not is a decision he makes without any negotiation. He can, though, establish guidelines to know when that discretion is going to be exercised.

You gave an opinion about why the fine was levied, and I offered alternative explanations. It appears that there have been no new guidelines published, so my first explanation seems not to be the case. My second statement is accurate--Kobe did NOT make a statement about the NBA as a whole like Rudy did--and that is still a possible factor in why Rudy was fined while Kobe was not.
It makes a lot more sense than that Stern is trying to screw over the Blazers.

Ed O.
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I was wondering if anyone was going to pick up on that.
 
I thought the fine a tad excessive, but this was the 2nd time (and really more than 2nd...given that every time Rudy is interviewed he has expressed a desire to leave the NBA and not just Portland) he came out and expressed a desire to have his contract voided by Portland and leave the NBA of which he is contracted to play....


Continual whining by him and his agents and asking to be let out of an NBA contract to return to europe (and not just to another team) are IMO the main reasons why Stern dropped the hammer...

The "Stern is out to get the Blazers" conspiracy theory is really reaching IMO....
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I was wondering if anyone was going to pick up on that.
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Me too.

And Kobe didn't use his team's media day to demand out of his contract. I empathize with Rudy a bit, but he has handled this situation as poorly as possible at every turn.
 
jlprk said:
Thanks, Nik. After 16 minutes I'm still reading. That linked to previous articles and I could also listen to audio if I wanted. I'm skipping the comments. Okay, back to clicking on the links.

This board simply said at the time that the agent's radio comments were boring. They got little attention on this board.
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I think I posted something on it.

My summary was that he got on there to defend the "O's" article that Rudy needed Kleenex and he was whining.

The agent was trying to impress on the audience that Rudy has personal issues back in Spain that have escalated to the point where he really has a very human need to be back home, and this has nothing to do with contracts, but instead has to do with a personal matter back home that he wasn't at liberty to talk about that really needed Rudy back home.

I honestly think it was more smoke than anything since he did mention on an occasion when asked why he once wanted to be traded and now bought out and sent home, he said, "Don't you think people ever sit at their desks at work and suddenly want to be in a different career, then change their mind a week later and don't want to change their careers?". So that told me this wasn't like a sick mother back home. Maybe something like a girl he met and he wants to spend more time with her and be closer to home and raise a family, etc.

If anyone should be fined though, it should have been Dwight Jaynes. The typical overbearing, American media know-it-all that will control the interview and make fun of the agent's lack of English skills while interrupting him repeatedly to try and get back to hard questions that were never going to get answered. And make horrible analogies like Rudy's contract with a car lease (at least could have compared it to a Labor contract).

But in all, the agent pretty much just defended the whole thing and was speaking poorly in an attempt to say the people don't understand the situation and aren't in his shoes to know this personal issue back home that is driving the issue. And Dwight Jaynes just being a bully and trying to trap him into saying something bad so he could put another feather in his cap.
 
Jazz game started, so I'll summarize and leave.

Rudy always has the option to buy a ticket and fly out of here. He will eventually walk, and I imagine it'll be within a month. The fines are meaningless--he didn't expect to work for and be paid by the NBA this year, so he doesn't care whether they take it all in the next month before he leaves.

He's delaying so he can have a clear legal path to sign in Europe, because FIBA and NBA have agreed to honor each other's contracts. If he just walks, he'll have to miss most of a season while it goes through the courts in Europe, where he will win.

Stern will lose in several ways. He will lose the contractual agreement with FIBA, which will be overturned. More important, the reputation of the NBA and of him personally will go down the drain in Europe. This of course will stiffen resistance to the NBA ever moving into Europe. The goodwill will be gone.

I'm missing the game.
 
This year he'll make $1,246,680. He has been fined 75K or 6% of his salary. Of course with tax implications, the percentage increases.
 
HOF, your post confirms my impression that this board said that the agent's interview said nothing important. That's why I'm surprised that Stern made something big out of it.

Jaynes' analogy of a car lease doesn't hold legally. In that case, the person is buying a service. In this case, the person is selling his service.

An employee has quit. Employment contracts normally let him out if he gives notice, like 30-90 days. Rudy gave the team notice at the end of last season.

The coming court fight (whether in Europe or the US) will damage the NBA's reputation in Europe. That translates into lost revenue from trinkets, jerseys, and TV rights. And forget about expansion there.
 
I have a theory!

Rudy is in love and his girl has probably said that he comes home or he goes away.

Or she is with child and he does not want to lose them. etc.

Just my thought.
 
Ed O said:
My second statement is accurate--Kobe did NOT make a statement about the NBA as a whole like Rudy did--and that is still a possible factor in why Rudy was fined while Kobe was not.



Ed O.
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According to what I posted, what Rudy said about the "NBA" means ZERO. Talking about being traded is all that matters. Stephen Jackson got fined $25k for wanting out of Golden State. He said nothing about the "NBA".

You are wrong, Ed. Be a man and admit it. Or don't, and continue to be a crappy pseudo-lawyer.
 
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Baracuda said:
Me too.

And Kobe didn't use his team's media day to demand out of his contract. I empathize with Rudy a bit, but he has handled this situation as poorly as possible at every turn.
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That has literally zero to do with how and why the fines were assessed. Unless you can fine me a "media day" clause in the CBA, of course.
 
That's because you ruined the thread with nonsense. I heroically tried to salvage the thread, but you were like a sledgehammer.
 
jlprk said:
That's because you ruined the thread with nonsense. I heroically tried to salvage the thread, but you were like a sledgehammer.
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That's my style.

Which "nonsense" did I post, though? Are facts and direct quotes "nonsense"? I notice Ed O. ran away, which isn't really his style, and his li'l pal BlazerCaravan threw a shot or two at me, without making much sense.

Now here you are, trying to insult me for the table scraps after I prepared a great meal hours ago.
 
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To tell you the truth, I can't critique your posts (or your rivals) because they were so boring I didn't read them. But I know in my heart of hearts they were nonsense. Trust me.

I save a lot of time each day by just reading my own posts. Over and over.
 
this thread got pedantic pretty quick.
 
Just going off of gut feel here (I'm not a contract lawyer), but the way that I read that is that Stern basically seems to have de facto (if not de jure) power to fine anyone he wants to for anything he wants to up to 50k, because it can't be appealed (setting aside CBA-negotiated things like technical fouls, etc.). So he has the right to fine anyone, and for whatever reason (I'm NOT about to start sticking up for Stern now) and seems to have selectively not applied that discretionary power to cases like K*be, Marion, Kidd, etc.

I see it more as sticking it to the non-superstar Euro whiner in Stern's eyes, not Portland specifically. It's no sweat off of Rich Cho's or Brandon's or Nate's back if Rudy's a little lighter in the wallet until he or his agent shuts up. It might actually be doing them a favor.

If Rudy was doing this while in SAC, or GSW, or PHI...I think Stern might do the same thing. Whereas if Roy was saying these things, he's probably be given a pass. Just a guess, though.
 
Funny, while I saw it as a large punishment for a "small crime" given the non-event that was that interview, I didn't really see this as Stern sticking it to anyone.

My thought from the beginning was that this is more like the "cheating husband" type of justice system. That being that if you cheat on your wife with an obvious full-blown affair, you get the equivalent of an initial "fine". You are told of what the expectations are going forward, you swear on everything that it will never happen again, and you're given a pass beyond that one fine.

Then if you are caught just making a simple phone call to your secretary asking her if she'd like to go to the Blazer game with you, you didn't commit even 5% of the initial full-blown crime, but you pay a HUGE price for what is preceived as a second offense, or going down that path again. So I think the $50K is more like a "Hey, didn't you hear me the first time? Don't ever mention you wanting to go home again (even quietly through your agent) or pay the price."
 
BGrantFan said:
According to what I posted, what Rudy said about the "NBA" means ZERO. Talking about being traded is all that matters. Stephen Jackson got fined $25k for wanting out of Golden State. He said nothing about the "NBA".

You are wrong, Ed. Be a man and admit it. Or don't, and continue to be a crappy pseudo-lawyer.
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Haha.

You think that Rule 35 is ONLY for making trade demands? Dude.

Read what you quoted (and bolded, for crying out loud!):

"NBA officials told the players union during talks for the 2005 Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) that such demands would henceforth fall under Rule 35, a player misconduct provision in the league constitution. Public trade demands are now considered "statements detrimental to the NBA"

Trade demands "fall under". That does not mean that they encompass the entire Rule 35... and why would the rule have existed at all if they did?

Stern fines based on the damage he perceives as being done to the NBA. Comments about the NBA as a whole are more detrimental than a player wanting to, say, play in Minnesota rather than Utah.

Ed O.
 
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