Serious question

[Denny Crane]

Maybe I missed the assignment. I guess you want a method that deports 11M illegal immigrants that doesn't cost much and causes no pain for the people that caused the problems by breaking our laws.

Got it.

Go Blazers

Forced migration of 11M people would be an international crime on the order of the Nazi death camps. I don't say that lightly. 11 million people.

If you smoke pot, consider you're breaking our laws.

 

[oldguy]

Forced migration of 11M people would be an international crime on the order of the Nazi death camps. I don't say that lightly. 11 million people.

If you smoke pot, consider you're breaking our laws.

Yeah, except that we aren't going to kill 11 million people, it's just like the Nazis.

And, yeah, entering a country illegally is just like driving over 55, or smoking a joint.

Mexico puts you in jail for entering their country illegally. But, for some reason, lots of folks think it's just peachy for them to break our laws with no concern for being jailed for deported.

Go Blazers

 

[oldguy]

Anyone that thinks that illegals are only taking the menial jobs for legal citizens simply isn't paying attention.

Go to any construction job being done by a public agency. Show up while they are working and ask if you can look around. You will see entire crews of guys that don't speak a lick of english.

On the large public projects (over $50K), they pay Prevailing Wage Rates. That is, essentially, union scale and fringe benefits. Trust me, there are lots of illegals working on projects that are intended to provide 'family wage jobs' for the legal taxpayers that are footing the bill for the construction.

Go Blazers

 

[blazerboy30]

I'm talking about forcing 11M people to move from their homes because of their race or ethnicity.

BWAA HAHAHA! What a load of crap, as if is actually the issue.

 

[blazerboy30]

Yeah. Deny 11M people a living and they'll all be homeless, their kids will starve, and whatever taxes they pay now won't be collected. They're at least paying sales taxes when they spend.

We really should go after the businesses that hire them. Indeed. Make them pay minimum wage like they have to pay anyone else.

As a libertarian, you don't even support minimum wage. But now when you need it to help support your silly argument, you're all aboard minimum wage requirements.

 

[Denny Crane]

As a libertarian, you don't even support minimum wage. But now when you need it to help support your silly argument, you're all aboard minimum wage requirements.

No, I don't support minimum wage. However, when the employer has the leverage of "take $x or I'll report you to immigration," there is coercion involved in the contract. They're also not in a position to sue (or be forced to leave their home and family and friends) if the employer is negligent, etc.

 

[Denny Crane]

Yeah, except that we aren't going to kill 11 million people, it's just like the Nazis.

And, yeah, entering a country illegally is just like driving over 55, or smoking a joint.

Mexico puts you in jail for entering their country illegally. But, for some reason, lots of folks think it's just peachy for them to break our laws with no concern for being jailed for deported.

Go Blazers

Entering a country "illegally" is just like driving over 55.

You don't have to kill 11M people for it to be on the order of the crime the Nazis committed.

 

[maxiep]

Entering a country "illegally" is just like driving over 55.

You don't have to kill 11M people for it to be on the order of the crime the Nazis committed.

Name another country that would allow 11MM people to cross their border and occupy their territory. It's a hell of a lot more serious than speeding. However, we just disagree about what constitutes a nation state.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Here's another one: Why can't we build a double fence along the entirety of our southern border?

As George Lopez jokes, we would need the illegals to build the fence, so it will never get built.

 

[Blazer4ever]

We have the same problem in Israel with immigration from Africa but here it's a bit different cause them not being Jewish arises the usual Paranoia of us not being the majority in the country. My opinion is that people have a right to live wherever they choose and that if the government will do a better job of making them part of our society instead of trying to find legal/moral ways to deport them, they would be less of a problem in issues like crime or walking through the streets drunk.

 

[Blazer4ever]

And we've already built a fence, we're good at building fences

 

[MARIS61]

You don't have to kill 11M people for it to be on the order of the crime the Nazis committed.

A better WWll analogy would be 11 million Nazis invading Poland. Was it okay for Poland to force the Nazis (with our help) to migrate back to Germany?

 

[MARIS61]

We have the same problem in Israel with immigration from Africa but here it's a bit different cause them not being Jewish arises the usual Paranoia of us not being the majority in the country. My opinion is that people have a right to live wherever they choose and that if the government will do a better job of making them part of our society instead of trying to find legal/moral ways to deport them, they would be less of a problem in issues like crime or walking through the streets drunk.

So you're for the dissolution of Israel, a country created solely to preserve "racial purity"?

 

[maxiep]

As George Lopez jokes, we would need the illegals to build the fence, so it will never get built.

Oh, we have enough unemployed that would love the paycheck. Believe it or not, that's one government program I could support (with private contractors building it, of course).

 

[Blazer4ever]

So you're for the dissolution of Israel, a country created solely to preserve "racial purity"?

I'm for human rights, 1st of all, and if being a Jewish state conflicts too much with human rights then we have a problem, anyway. The situation is already very complicated and some (most?) people in Israel may not agree with me but there are also many voices like mine in Israel. I would never give up my (our) right to be here but keeping a Jewish majority shouldn't be our only purpose, In my opinion.

 

[maxiep]

I'm for human rights, 1st of all, and if being a Jewish state conflicts too much with human rights then we have a problem, anyway. The situation is already very complicated and some (most?) people in Israel may not agree with me but there are also many voices like mine in Israel. I would never give up my (our) right to be here but keeping a Jewish majority shouldn't be our only purpose, In my opinion.

Having a Jewish majority in Israel is the only way to guarantee an Israel. Submit to the "Right of Return" and Jews become a minority. When they do, the Palestinians simply vote in Hamas and there is either a mass deportation of Jews or another Holocaust.

The Jews deserve a homeland. It's too bad the Palestinians and the Arab states that use them can't simply recognize Israel's right to exist. Peace would occur overnight.

 

[Blazer4ever]

I see what you׳re saying, Israel as home for Jews is important also for non Israeli Jews to have a place to go in case they're being attacked for being Jewish. As I've said it's a very complicated and frustrating situation in which we have to constantly maintain a delicate balance between wanting to keep Israel as it is and not violating the rights of other people that live here or in case of the African immigrants - want to live here. Unfortunately I think it'll take a lot of time before this situation is fully resolved.

 

[Denny Crane]

Name another country that would allow 11MM people to cross their border and occupy their territory. It's a hell of a lot more serious than speeding. However, we just disagree about what constitutes a nation state.

There are a million Syrian refugees living in neighboring countries that moved there over the past year.

The UN says there are tens of millions of refugees worldwide.

So I'd say there are 10s of millions of people crossed someone's border. Numerous other countries.

 

[Denny Crane]

A better WWll analogy would be 11 million Nazis invading Poland. Was it okay for Poland to force the Nazis (with our help) to migrate back to Germany?

The ones with guns and who were shooting at the Polish people, sure.

 

[maxiep]

There are a million Syrian refugees living in neighboring countries that moved there over the past year.

The UN says there are tens of millions of refugees worldwide.

So I'd say there are 10s of millions of people crossed someone's border. Numerous other countries.

So, no 11MM heading to another country.

And do you really consider these illegal aliens refugees? M'kay.

 

[Denny Crane]

So, no 11MM heading to another country.

And do you really consider these illegal aliens refugees? M'kay.

Way more than 11MM heading to another country.

In a large sense, they are refugees. From poverty, from corrupt government, from drug cartels, from gang violence.

In any case, they're here. We have constitutional and legal obligations to provide protection and equal treatment to them under the law.

Your suggestion we uproot people almost entirely based upon their race or ethnicity is a 21st century trail of tears in the making.

It wasn't very long ago when I could walk across the border into Mexico without a passport, and vice versa. We were a much freer country then.

 

[maxiep]

Way more than 11MM heading to another country.

In a large sense, they are refugees. From poverty, from corrupt government, from drug cartels, from gang violence.

In any case, they're here. We have constitutional and legal obligations to provide protection and equal treatment to them under the law.

Your suggestion we uproot people almost entirely based upon their race or ethnicity is a 21st century trail of tears in the making.

It wasn't very long ago when I could walk across the border into Mexico without a passport, and vice versa. We were a much freer country then.

Blame Mexico for not being able to cross their border easily. I would invite you becoming an illegal alien resident in Mexico and see how you're treated by the Mexican government. Here's an idea: Let's apply reciprocity to immigration law. For Mexico, we use their standards on their citizens. For Switzerland, Bhutan, Indonesia, etc.

You and I just have very different notions of what constitutes a nation-state.

 

[Denny Crane]

Blame Mexico for not being able to cross their border easily. I would invite you becoming an illegal alien resident in Mexico and see how you're treated by the Mexican government. Here's an idea: Let's apply reciprocity to immigration law. For Mexico, we use their standards on their citizens. For Switzerland, Bhutan, Indonesia, etc.

You and I just have very different notions of what constitutes a nation-state.

The USA is an experiment in a different way to run a nation state.

So running it like france or like mexico or like switzerland isn't what we're about.

Hey, the chinese use slave labor. Let's reciprocate and have slave labor of our own.

You need the green font for the above?

 

[maxiep]

The USA is an experiment in a different way to run a nation state.

So running it like france or like mexico or like switzerland isn't what we're about.

Hey, the chinese use slave labor. Let's reciprocate and have slave labor of our own.

You need the green font for the above?

Your posts are becoming barfoesque.

All I'm saying (and it was clear from my post) that we merely have reciprocity on immigration law. I also should have expanded it to "law and enforcement". If you're caught as an illegal alien in Mexico, you go to prison. Yet, we practically incentivize illegal aliens to come here.

Citizen is pretty clearly defined in the Constitution. Not everyone who is here has the same rights as we citizens.

 

[Denny Crane]

Your posts are becoming barfoesque.

All I'm saying (and it was clear from my post) that we merely have reciprocity on immigration law. I also should have expanded it to "law and enforcement". If you're caught as an illegal alien in Mexico, you go to prison. Yet, we practically incentivize illegal aliens to come here.

Citizen is pretty clearly defined in the Constitution. Not everyone who is here has the same rights as we citizens.

Person with a capital P is clearly defined in the constitution.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

In any case, they're here. We have constitutional and legal obligations to provide protection and equal treatment to them under the law.

Pardon my ignorance, but how would enforcing existing immigration law be a violation of the constitutional requirement of equal protection and treatment?

 

[Denny Crane]

Pardon my ignorance, but how would enforcing existing immigration law be a violation of the constitutional requirement of equal protection and treatment?

I generally don't suggest the law is logical, but it really is common sense. Why can't you just murder an illegal immigrant? Because he's protected by our laws as a Person, regardless of his "illegal" status. We observe international law, so they're entitled to protections. There are numerous court cases, such as ones that overturned denial of education to children who are illegal aliens for example.

The kind and scale of forced migration being talked about (11MM or more people) is a form of ethnic cleansing. That seems like common sense that anyone should understand. Forced migration is an international crime against humanity. It's one of the crimes Milosevic was charged with.

And I really think people need to understand where the immigration laws came from and their purpose. They are among the most vile and racist bits of US history. A good read on that subject: http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/immigr09.htm

 

[maxiep]

I generally don't suggest the law is logical, but it really is common sense. Why can't you just murder an illegal immigrant? Because he's protected by our laws as a Person, regardless of his "illegal" status. We observe international law, so they're entitled to protections. There are numerous court cases, such as ones that overturned denial of education to children who are illegal aliens for example.

The kind and scale of forced migration being talked about (11MM or more people) is a form of ethnic cleansing. That seems like common sense that anyone should understand. Forced migration is an international crime against humanity. It's one of the crimes Milosevic was charged with.

And I really think people need to understand where the immigration laws came from and their purpose. They are among the most vile and racist bits of US history. A good read on that subject: http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/immigr09.htm

Just because the majority of them would be Hispanic would not make it "ethnic cleansing". They're not being deported because of their race, but rather because they broke the law and are here illegally. I say deport everyone who is here illegally, period.

 

[Denny Crane]

To deport 11MM illegal immigrants, you are going to need a really big army. A bunch of jack booted thugs dressed up like soldiers. S.W.A.T. teams. There's at least 4 of them for every one of our men and women in the army, air force, navy, and marines combined.

You're going to go door to door and break them down. You're going to point guns at these people and demand their papers.

You're going to load up hundreds of thousands of school buses or those big canvas trucks with these people. Drive them to the border and at gun point force them to go across the border.

Meanwhile, you have some of these immigrants who had children here who are actual legal US citizens. You are going to deport them, too? Sure, why not. It's a fine way to get rid of even more of these people you don't want here.

You're probably going to have to shoot a bunch of them, because they won't go peacefully.

When they try to come back to get their things or reunite with friends and family, shoot them as they try to cross back into the country. That'll stop the problem, right?

I'm not thinking of the worst way to do this, it's the only way. It's exactly what you are talking about.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

To deport 11MM illegal immigrants, you are going to need a really big army. A bunch of jack booted thugs dressed up like soldiers. S.W.A.T. teams. There's at least 4 of them for every one of our men and women in the army, air force, navy, and marines combined.

You're going to go door to door and break them down. You're going to point guns at these people and demand their papers.

You're going to load up hundreds of thousands of school buses or those big canvas trucks with these people. Drive them to the border and at gun point force them to go across the border.

Meanwhile, you have some of these immigrants who had children here who are actual legal US citizens. You are going to deport them, too? Sure, why not. It's a fine way to get rid of even more of these people you don't want here.

You're probably going to have to shoot a bunch of them, because they won't go peacefully.

When they try to come back to get their things or reunite with friends and family, shoot them as they try to cross back into the country. That'll stop the problem, right?

I'm not thinking of the worst way to do this, it's the only way. It's exactly what you are talking about.

Just put a bounty on every illegal.

New industry created!

Problem solved.