Shabazz vs. Baldwin

[kjironman1]

Is SlyPokerDog naturally stupid or does it take effort?

I’m not the one that just compared the Blazers to the Texas Legends so I really wouldn’t know about how much effort it takes to be stupid?
On the other hand maybe Sly could fill me in?

 

[Scalma]

I’m not the one that just compared the Blazers to the Texas Legends so I really wouldn’t know about how much effort it takes to be stupid?
On the other hand maybe Sly could fill me in?

When talking in context of playbooks it’s a completely fair comparison, but keep condescending me, its worked out well for you in the past.

 

[kjironman1]

No not really a valid comparison. Level of talent changes in the NBA. Also playbooks change for rosters and strengths or weaknesses of each team.

 

[rotary111]

Baldwin can pick up the other teams best guard full court on every play he is in. No other player on our team can do that anywhere near as effectively. Imo.

Small sample size or not. It's just obvious.

Absolutely ridiculous that he is dnpcd.

How do you look Dame in the eye and say "We know he's our best guard defender but we are saving him for next season"

Nothing against Bazz he has a spot on this team. There's still minutes available for him. Wade, Bazz and Dame should be the only point guards running the team. Stop letting CJ and ET run the point.

 

[blue9]

It's time for me to admit that at least HALF of the reason I like Bazz is due to that Stumptown commercial...and that's not a reason that warrant court time. If it weren't for that commercial I'd be entirely indifferent to Bazz. I've liked his on-ball defense, but aside from that I'm not a fan of his game.

 

[riverman]

Is SlyPokerDog naturally stupid or does it take effort?

you realize they play no defense in the G league?

 

[Scalma]

you realize they play no defense in the G league?

Another genius ^

 

[dviss1]

Everyone is complaining about his offense. Y'all, there are 2 sides of the ball. Also, including Baldwin, Bazz is our BEST on the ball defender.

Defensively, he's our best player save Nurk.

 

[dviss1]

Baldwin can pick up the other teams best guard full court on every play he is in. No other player on our team can do that anywhere near as effectively. Imo.

That's your opinion. The fact is you're wrong. Until Baldwin demonstrates this all season, Bazz is a better defender.

And yes he could easily defend 94 feet.

 

[Reep]

Defensively, he's our best player save Nurk.

Not sure I would totally agree with that assessment. He does have quick hands and can get steels. But, he also gets abused by taller guards.

Nurk
Aminu
Harkless
Turner
Collins
Napier?

(leaving off Baldwin due to small sample size)

 

[dviss1]

Not sure I would totally agree with that assessment. He does have quick hands and can get steels. But, he also gets abused by taller guards.

Nurk
Aminu
Harkless
Turner
Collins
Napier?

You're completely wrong. You literally just made that up.

They just quoted some numbers the other night. Hurd was talking about it. Shabazz is literally one of the best if not THE best post defender at guard in the NBA.

 

[tlongII]

Bazz has earned the backup PG spot over the course of the season. You don't trust an inexperienced guy at this point.

 

[Reep]

You're completely wrong. You literally just made that up.

They just quoted some numbers the other night. Hurd was talking about it. Shabazz is literally one of the best if not THE best post defender at guard in the NBA.

So at the end of a tight game, you would bench Aminu or Harkless to put Napier on the court?

I'm not saying he is a bad defender, I just think there are a few between him and Nurkic.

I did use the eye test for my list, but here is defensive +/-, which I think is one of the best measures.

Nurkic
Harkless
Aminu
Davis
Collins
ET
Swanigan
Napier

I wouldn't disagree he is our best defender who is a guard (not counting Harkless defending a guard).

 

[Gronk Brady]

You're completely wrong. You literally just made that up.

They just quoted some numbers the other night. Hurd was talking about it. Shabazz is literally one of the best if not THE best post defender at guard in the NBA.

I don’t really give a shit that Shabazz gets 1 steal per game... his size still matters. Usually he is guarding some scrub bench player from other team... and his size does matter... it puts constant pressure on defense and many times we have to rotate other players over or double team. Baldwin sample size may be small, but he went toe to toe with the league MVP and looked like Tony Allen out there... Shabazz couldn’t hold Hardens jock strap. Also, Shabazz is shooting 34% since all star break, taking I’ll advised shots and not passing to teammates

 

[Scalma]

The thing about defense is you don’t need a large sample to be able to judge whether a guy can defend or not. It’s not like scoring, where anyone can get hot. Defense is something that should always show up. If Napier was actually a better defender than Baldwin, he would’ve had performances like Baldwin had against Houston. But he hasn’t. No Blazer guard has since Wes. So unless Wade physically shrinks or stops trying, there’s no reason not to expect more of the same.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The thing about defense is you don’t need a large sample to be able to judge whether a guy can defend or not. It’s not like scoring, where anyone can get hot. Defense is something that should always show up. If Napier was actually a better defender than Baldwin, he would’ve had performances like Baldwin had against Houston. But he hasn’t. No Blazer guard has since Wes. So unless Wade physically shrinks or stops trying, there’s no reason not to expect more of the same.

Mostly agree, but lineup minutes can affect your defense. Are you defending the opponents starters? their scrubs? When does a player come in t defend who could absolutely affect their defensive ratings and possibly provide inaccurate stats.

 

[blue9]

For his size Bazz is a great defender. But yes, size matters...and that's why I think Baldwin is a better option moving forward. Hopefully he can play the way we saw him play against HOU more often than not.

Turner and Aminu are super overrated defensively. The only reason they're "better" than Bazz is because they're BIGGER than Bazz...but they aren't actually better at playing defense.

As far as playing defense, I'd rank 'em:
Nurk
Bazz
Collins*
Harkless
Ed
Dame**
Turner
Aminu
The rest

*This ranking is based off the flashes we've seen.
*Yeah, this season I think Dame's really made a giant leap. He might not come up with many flashy defensive plays, but he rarely gets lost which is something I can't say for Turner or Aminu. I think Dame is near Ed (who I think is also overrated, because neither take plays off or get lost, both give good effort, but they both get burnt by quicker (Dame) or bigger (Ed) players.

 

[Scalma]

Mostly agree, but lineup minutes can affect your defense. Are you defending the opponents starters? their scrubs? When does a player come in t defend who could absolutely affect their defensive ratings and possibly provide inaccurate stats.

I didn’t mention anything about stats, for many of the reasons you listed above.

When I watch a guys defense I look for three things; instincts, size/length, and effort. I believe you need all three. Napier is a good example. He has great instincts but he’s limited as to who he can guard, just because of his size.

 

[dviss1]

I don’t really give a shit that Shabazz gets 1 steal per game... his size still matters. Usually he is guarding some scrub bench player from other team... and his size does matter... it puts constant pressure on defense and many times we have to rotate other players over or double team. Baldwin sample size may be small, but he went toe to toe with the league MVP and looked like Tony Allen out there... Shabazz couldn’t hold Hardens jock strap. Also, Shabazz is shooting 34% since all star break, taking I’ll advised shots and not passing to teammates

What games are you watching? You're literally making the bolded part up. I guess perception is reality.

 

[dviss1]

I didn’t mention anything about stats, for many of the reasons you listed above.

When I watch a guys defense I look for three things; instincts, size/length, and effort. I believe you need all three. Napier is a good example. He has great instincts but he’s limited as to who he can guard, just because of his size.

This goes without saying. But he always guards the best ballhandler so....

 

[Blazinaway]

Pat has been fairly worthless, I'd give Wade some of his minutes, if he does well he gets some more. Bazz has really slumped, yes he did earn his spot but his bank acct is rapidly approaching empty

 

[Gronk Brady]

Pat has been fairly worthless, I'd give Wade some of his minutes, if he does well he gets some more. Bazz has really slumped, yes he did earn his spot but his bank acct is rapidly approaching empty

Pat has been just as bad, if not worse than Shabazz since all star break... the reason I’d rather have Shabazz lose minutes is because he controls the ball as PG and really dictates how the 2nd unite plays... that’s a big problem when you don’t pass and shoot 34% fg

 

[rotary111]

That's your opinion. The fact is you're wrong. Until Baldwin demonstrates this all season, Bazz is a better defender.

And yes he could easily defend 94 feet.

Edit. I forgot to hit send on this post earlier today.


Yes, as stated it is my opinion. I respect your opinion @dviss

I stand by my post. Wade is a better defender and I don't need a full season to see it. How would Bazz do against Harden or CP3? Nobody can shut them down, they are elite whether we want to admit it or not. Bazz is very good for his size at holding his ground down low, but if they rise up for a shot he is then at a disadvantage. Unless he picks their pocket which is what makes him a good defender and why he gets steals. During the playoffs each coach will exploit any size mismatch on the court. No disrespect to Bazz. I like him a lot. I just think wade is more of a complete guard and better for this team.

 

[kjironman1]

That's your opinion. The fact is you're wrong. Until Baldwin demonstrates this all season, Bazz is a better defender.

And yes he could easily defend 94 feet.

Thing is Bazz has shown he defends any position and it doesn't stop at guards. You have to give Baldwin props. The kid is showing he has the chops to make it in this league. But right now he seems to be the flavor of the week and the two guys that helped get the team to where they are are now garbage. Doesn't work that way. I totally agree until Baldwin shows what he can do over a season we don't know what we have. Two games and some G league time ain't gonna cut it.

 

[BonesJones]

Thing is Bazz has shown he defends any position and it doesn't stop at guards. You have to give Baldwin props. The kid is showing he has the chops to make it in this league. But right now he seems to be the flavor of the week and the two guys that helped get the team to where they are are now garbage. Doesn't work that way. I totally agree until Baldwin shows what he can do over a season we don't know what we have. Two games and some G league time ain't gonna cut it.

The stats say Pat and Bazz have been garbage lately, and I bet Baldwin could match, if not exceed their crummy shooting as of late. He's also someone that can attack the rim (which the 2nd unit doesnt do, they settle for tough jumpshots), and moves the ball (the 2nd unit is stagnant).

Plus, he's a better defender than Shabazz on tools alone. The playoffs are more physical that the regular season, which plays in Wade's favor.

Is "not knowing what we have" better than knowing we'll likely get poor play out of our 2nd string backcourt?

 

[Scalma]

Thing is Bazz has shown he defends any position and it doesn't stop at guards

You can’t possibly believe this to be true. This is like saying Nurkic can guard PGs because he gets switched onto one from time to time.

 

[BonesJones]

You can’t possibly believe this to be true. This is like saying Nurkic can guard PGs because he gets switched onto one from time to time.

Lol I didn't catch that. Definitely a stretch.

 

[Drttimmy]

Shabazz has been a black hole... he dribbles around for 20 seconds then jacks up a bad shot. He doesn’t give the rest of the second unit a chance to succeed as the pg. he is shooting 34% since all star break... not just a cold streak, it’s almost half the season... why is he still playing??? Especially when you saw what Baldwin did against Harden... I’m pretty sure Baldwin can shoot at least 34%

But can Baldwin create his own shot like Napier can? I think Stotts values that immensely, since the offense is somewhat reliant on Dame and CJ going iso when things go swampy. Napier is one of our only creators off the bench, so I think that's his value. I don't know, I'm all for seeing what Baldwin can do and being a 6'5 point guard is awfully attractive. Doubt Stotts wants to further disrupt the balance of the team this late in the season, although I'd mix it up if I were in his shoes.

 

[blue9]

Thing is Bazz has shown he defends any position and it doesn't stop at guards. You have to give Baldwin props. The kid is showing he has the chops to make it in this league. But right now he seems to be the flavor of the week and the two guys that helped get the team to where they are are now garbage. Doesn't work that way. I totally agree until Baldwin shows what he can do over a season we don't know what we have. Two games and some G league time ain't gonna cut it.

Sure, but it also isn't unreasonable to play him when the player(s) in front of him are stinking it up. Rather than being proactive, Terry thinks that if he waits just long enough everything will get better...and then the final buzzer sounds.

 

[blue9]

But can Baldwin create his own shot like Napier can? I think Stotts values that immensely, since the offense is somewhat reliant on Dame and CJ going iso when things go swampy. Napier is one of our only creators off the bench, so I think that's his value. I don't know, I'm all for seeing what Baldwin can do and being a 6'5 point guard is awfully attractive. Doubt Stotts wants to further disrupt the balance of the team this late in the season, although I'd mix it up if I were in his shoes.

I'm sure Baldwin can bring the ball upcourt and launch a 3 with 17 seconds left on the shot clock just as well as Bazz can (and does!).