Notice Shooting In Northern Cali.......

[MARIS61]

SlyPokerDog is a delusional girl dog who needs to move to Canada.

WTF is this shit?

Put my post back how it was, and stop implying it was somehow an insult because it was not.

 

[Cippy91]

@Cippy91,
first of all, Chicago doesn't have the strictest gun laws. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...hicago-gun-laws-explainer-20171006-story.html

Secondly, it doesn't mean anything because it's one location in a nation with pours gun laws.

Thirdly, yes, there are ~300M guns in the US, and I own several. And a many gun owners, a majority according to some polls, support some tighter restrictions or regulations. Go to armslist.com and see how easy it is to buy without meeting any criteria, without a background check, without providing a name or an ID. Without having to show that you aren't a felon, without having to checked out that you aren't mentally ill, without anything whatsoever.

Is mental instability and lack of adequate mental healthcare a huge problem that would also help? Absolutely. But just because one think matters doesn't mean others don't. We can offer better healthcare, we can have more safety nets and we can also make sure those who are prone to violence are not allowed to buy legally or to easily be able to buy illegally by methods that aren't tracked or reviewed. We can have some restrictions and still not ban all guns. There is an in-between.

Not the strictest but some of the strictest if we are talking state to state. My post was addressing the stupid “ban guns” opinion. That’s not happening. I’m all in favor of stricter background checks and all that. I just think the over reaction of just “banning guns” makes zero sense. This country does not take care of its own people, even veterans get shitty treatment from their issues coming back from the war resulting in high suicide rate among them. Mental health is the issue here. That’s what drives people to do this type of shit to others or themselves. No sane person even at the angriest just says fuck it I’m gonna go kill a few people. It takes a mentally ill person to do those kind of things

 

[Further]

Not the strictest but some of the strictest if we are talking state to state. My post was addressing the stupid “ban guns” opinion. That’s not happening. I’m all in favor of stricter background checks and all that. I just think the over reaction of just “banning guns” makes zero sense. This country does not take care of its own people, even veterans get shitty treatment from their issues coming back from the war resulting in high suicide rate among them. Mental health is the issue here. That’s what drives people to do this type of shit to others or themselves. No sane person even at the angriest just says fuck it I’m gonna go kill a few people. It takes a mentally ill person to do those kind of things

If your post was addressing the 'ban guns" opinion I don't know why you would bring up Chicago at all, as it has not even come remotely close to such a thing. If you want to perhaps look at a parallel for your argument, perhaps look at some nations like Australia that have banned guns (for the most part).

As far as being in favor of stricter background checks and stuff like that, those are the things the majority of people are rallying for regarding gun restrictions. The "ban all guns" side is tiny and has zero chance of success.

So, you and I agree on the need to bolster our healthcare system and make sure metal healthcare is a priority for everyone and we agree that some gun restrictions need to be implemented. Good to know you are with us buddy.

 

[Further]

Not the strictest but some of the strictest if we are talking state to state.

And I'm sure this is just a brain fart while typing, but Chicago isn't a state.

 

[Cippy91]

And I'm sure this is just a brain fart while typing, but Chicago isn't a state.

Illinois. I have a friend who lives there and hunts, they can’t even use rifles. Shotguns they can but only at certain times of hunting season. I have looked over the gun laws in that state and Chicago and while it’s not the strictest, it’s up there

 

[Further]

No sane person even at the angriest just says fuck it I’m gonna go kill a few people. It takes a mentally ill person to do those kind of things

And on a side note, I have read so very interesting debate on the danger of assigning insanity or mental illness to those who commit atrocities. I am not a psychiatrist and don't really know enough about the topic but there have been books written about how Hitler may have been evil, terrible, and every other bad name you can conjure up, but he wasn't mentally ill. And by putting all these villains in the "sick" box we aren't endeavoring how to really understand them, their motivations and their reasoning. And without that piece of the puzzle, we will be bound to produce more of these people in society. To tell the truth, I am not sure which side of this argument I fall on. It's hard to think of Hitler as anything but insane.

 

[Cippy91]

If your post was addressing the 'ban guns" opinion I don't know why you would bring up Chicago at all, as it has not even come remotely close to such a thing. If you want to perhaps look at a parallel for your argument, perhaps look at some nations like Australia that have banned guns (for the most part).

As far as being in favor of stricter background checks and stuff like that, those are the things the majority of people are rallying for regarding gun restrictions. The "ban all guns" side is tiny and has zero chance of success.

So, you and I agree on the need to bolster our healthcare system and make sure metal healthcare is a priority for everyone and we agree that some gun restrictions need to be implemented. Good to know you are with us buddy.

My point was that no matter how strict your gun laws are and even if you banned them, these type of people would still find a way to illegally obtain them and do harm with them

 

[SlyPokerDog]

When you want to comfort the victims of one more mass shooting but you HATE California...

 

[Further]

It is legal to own rifles in Illinois.

Here's a refresher course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Illinois

There may be certain hunting restrictions, but that has nothing to do with ones ability to own a rifle.

 

[Cippy91]

And on a side note, I have read so very interesting debate on the danger of assigning insanity or mental illness to those who commit atrocities. I am not a psychiatrist and don't really know enough about the topic but there have been books written about how Hitler may have been evil, terrible, and every other bad name you can conjure up, but he wasn't mentally ill. And by putting all these villains in the "sick" box we aren't endeavoring how to really understand them, their motivations and their reasoning. And without that piece of the puzzle, we will be bout to produce more of these people in society. To tell the truth, I am not sure which side of this argument I fall on. It's hard to think of Hitler as anything but insane.

The issue with that is, what is evil? Can it be defined? It all comes back to some sort of mental issue or disorder. Hitler could fall under the category of a bunch of mental issues. I feel there is way more to learn about mental health and illnesses. Hitler was a mixed bag of all sorts of shit

 

[Cippy91]

It is legal to own rifles in Illinois.

Here's a refresher course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Illinois

There may be certain hunting restrictions, but that has nothing to do with ones ability to own a rifle.

Well I’m not sure what he’s talking about then but it’s currently hunting season and he told me straight up they can’t have rifles, only shotguns

 

[Further]

My point was that no matter how strict your gun laws are and even if you banned them, these type of people would still find a way to illegally obtain them and do harm with them

Like in Australia? Where a firearm now costs about $20,000 on the black market? Sure, you may still be able to find and buy one, but it's very difficult, very expensive and they have been pushed so far underground that many Australians say they wouldn't even know where to buy one illegally if they wanted to anymore.

 

[Further]

The issue with that is, what is evil? Can it be defined? It all comes back to some sort of mental issue or disorder. Hitler could fall under the category of a bunch of mental issues. I feel there is way more to learn about mental health and illnesses. Hitler was a mixed bag of all sorts of shit

Yes, but if you have to force someone into some mental illness box to try to explain the actions post-tradegy, is that really beneficial? I found an article about one of the books that touched off the discussion of Hitler being mentally ill or not. http://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/17/s...-psychiatrist-takes-a-new-look-at-hitler.html
But as I said, you might be right on this one, I just don't know.

 

[Cippy91]

Like in Australia? Where a firearm now costs about $20,000 on the black market? Sure, you may still be able to find and buy one, but it's very difficult, very expensive and they have been pushed so far underground that many Australians say they wouldn't even know where to buy one illegally if they wanted to anymore.

In America this scenario just isn’t possible. And I’m sure Australians out there still find ways to inflict harm on one another

 

[Further]

Well I’m not sure what he’s talking about then but it’s currently hunting season and he told me straight up they can’t have rifles, only shotguns

Just like you can't trap certain animals or you have to hunt with arrows certain times of years. But those aren't strict gun laws, those are strict hunting laws.

 

[Further]

In America this scenario just isn’t possible. And I’m sure Australians out there still find ways to inflict harm on one another

I agree that it's not a probable scenario in America. But your argument of Chicago has nothing to do with banning guns. IF you want to talk about banning guns, look at places that have banned them.

 

[Further]

In America this scenario just isn’t possible. And I’m sure Australians out there still find ways to inflict harm on one another

Actually the population has gone up significantly since the ban yet both total homicides and total gun homisides have gone down substantially.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ck-2nd-amendment-nevada-firearm-a7980671.html
How murder and suicide figures plummeted in Australia after gun control laws were introduced
In the wake of the concert massacre in Las Vegas, the deadliest mass shooting in recent US history, commentators have pointed to Australia’s 1990s crackdown on gun ownership as an example of how to prevent similar atrocities.

On Monday, 59 people were killed and more than 500 injured when a gunman opened fire from a room in the Mandalay Bay hotel, reportedly using a rapid-firing semi-automatic weapon.

Asked whether new gun control rules would follow, White House spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders said: “There will be time for that policy discussion to take place but that’s not the place that we are in at the moment.”

Nonetheless, the example has again been raised of how Australia responded to a mass shooting of its own in 1996, when a lone gunman killed 35 people in Port Arthur, Tasmania.

The government of John Howard instituted a ban on, and a mass, compulsory buy-back of, certain kinds of guns, destroying nearly 660,000 rapid-fire weapons over two years amid other measures.


Since then Australia has not suffered another mass shooting, defined by academics as the killing of five or more people, not including the perpetrator.


Last year a Reuters analysis of Australian Bureau of Statistics figures showed that in 1996, Australia had had 311 murders, of which 98 involved guns. In 2014, when the population had increased from about 18 million to 23 million, 238 people were murdered, 35 by guns.

In other words, the likelihood of being murdered by gunshot fell by 72 per cent in that period, from 0.54 to 0.15 per 100,000 people, Reuters said.

.....

 

[Cippy91]

Yes, but if you have to force someone into some mental illness box to try to explain the actions post-tradegy, is that really beneficial? I found an article about one of the books that touched off the discussion of Hitler being mentally ill or not. http://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/17/s...-psychiatrist-takes-a-new-look-at-hitler.html
But as I said, you might be right on this one, I just don't know.

Narcissism is definitely something that came to mind before reading that. Sounds like he had a shit ton of physical issues which could also be linked mentally. After going through a personal tragedy myself two years ago involving my girlfriends family member who ended up killing another family member, I kinda have studied mental health more closely and kinda have a bit more understanding on it. I would of done what most people did if I didn’t go through it and call her mom evil and a bad person but after seeing how she acted and still acts from time to time, her psychosis, etc. it’s interesting. It’s a mind fuck really. Her mom wasn’t normal for the four years I knew her it seemed then that last year where the event happened she got paranoid and that led to psychosis and hallucinations. She was obsessed with Disney movies and would write insane math equations on paper and the shit was creepy. Then one day she pulled the trigger on her own son. Somebody that is the last person I would think she would ever do that to. Honestly. In the two years I have had to process that, it’s been a ride. I remember the media and the comments people would type. They wanted her dead. They didn’t understand. Mental illness isn’t something easy to understand. There is so much to it. Shit that most people don’t even think of.

 

[Cippy91]

Just like you can't trap certain animals or you have to hunt with arrows certain times of years. But those aren't strict gun laws, those are strict hunting laws.

He didn’t make it seem like a hunting law but yeah it sounded weird to me so it’s most likely wrong

 

[Cippy91]

I agree that it's not a probable scenario in America. But your argument of Chicago has nothing to do with banning guns. IF you want to talk about banning guns, look at places that have banned them.

I only used that also because most of the guns acquired are through the black market. If a van ever occurred which I don’t think it will, in a hypothetical crazy scenario of guns being taken, they would be sold on the black market and be accessible to those who know how to get them

 

[Further]

I only used that also because most of the guns acquired are through the black market. If a van ever occurred which I don’t think it will, in a hypothetical crazy scenario of guns being taken, they would be sold on the black market and be accessible to those who know how to get them

At first, yes. As time went on, and scarcity took root, the prices would be driven to excess for most villains. We both agree that it isn't likely to happen, but follow my train of thought for a moment please. If guns were banned and they did something similar to Australia with a buy back law put in place, what would happen? Well, I think most gun owners would fall into one of two categories, 1) those that would obey the law. All those guns would be bought back by the government and destroyed. 2) those who would not sell their guns back and would instead hoard those guns. I doubt that most of the people who kept their guns would be willing to then sell those guns. They would hold onto them as a just in case scenario. So, on the black market we would have a greatly reduced number of guns because many were destroyed and many of the remaining guns would be off the market forever as people would not want to give up their hidden and not easily replaced guns. So, that $600 Glock would skyrocket in price. Over time it would be 1, then 2 the 5 then 10+ thousand dollars. The black market would dry up.

I think that if a total ban were implemented there would be a revolt in America so it just isn't going to happen. However, I think if somehow there were no revolt, the ban would be quite successful in greatly reducing gun violence and most likely also reduce overall homicide and even suicide rates.

 

[Further]

And not only would the firearms become prohibitively expensive, but so would the ammunition.

 

[Cippy91]

At first, yes. As time went on, and scarcity took root, the prices would be driven to excess for most villains. We both agree that it isn't likely to happen, but follow my train of thought for a moment please. If guns were banned and they did something similar to Australia with a buy back law put in place, what would happen? Well, I think most gun owners would fall into one of two categories, 1) those that would obey the law. All those guns would be bought back by the government and destroyed. 2) those who would not sell their guns back and would instead hoard those guns. I doubt that most of the people who kept their guns would be willing to then sell those guns. They would hold onto them as a just in case scenario. So, on the black market we would have a greatly reduced number of guns because many were destroyed and many of the remaining guns would be off the market forever as people would not want to give up their hidden and not easily replaced guns. So, that $600 Glock would skyrocket in price. Over time it would be 1, then 2 the 5 then 10+ thousand dollars. The black market would dry up.

I think that if a total ban were implemented there would be a revolt in America so it just isn't going to happen. However, I think if somehow there were no revolt, the ban would be quite successful in greatly reducing gun violence and most likely also reduce overall homicide and even suicide rates.

I get what you’re saying but I’m more so on the stricter checks and laws train. A lot of people enjoy just shooting their guns on a range as a hobby or hunting. I wouldn’t want to take that freedom away from them. I just boil down the issue to the fact that it’s too easy to get guns in most places and mental health. Other than that most Americans own a gun and don’t do bad things with them

 

[barfo]

Other than that most Americans own a gun and don’t do bad things with them

Only 30% of Americans own a gun; that's not most.

barfo

 

[Further]

I get what you’re saying but I’m more so on the stricter checks and laws train. A lot of people enjoy just shooting their guns on a range as a hobby or hunting. I wouldn’t want to take that freedom away from them. I just boil down the issue to the fact that it’s too easy to get guns in most places and mental health. Other than that most Americans own a gun and don’t do bad things with them

I think your stance is honorable and likely fairly close to mine. I also don’t want to ban all guns. But it is important in any discussion or debate to tell the truth about your oppositions arguments. A ban Would most likely reduce gun violence and likely other capital violence too as it has in Australia. Then, from that standpoint you can honorably discuss the pitfalls and drawbacks of which there are many.

 

[Sedatedfork]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-tweets-condolences-to-wrong-town-after-mass-shooting/

I guess they are getting so commonplace that new shootings don't even deserve new tweets.