<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Downunderwonder)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lukewarmplay)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>
Show me where I said you <u>have</u> to change your opinion. Show me where I said your opinion is wrong. I'm sorry that you're disturbed by the arguments you imagined I made, but maybe it means you're just disturbed.</p>
Here's what I said if you want to read it again: when you base your opinion on points which are shown to be wrong, or which have changed over time, you should possess the ability to change that opinion.</p>
Let's parse this anonymous quote that I pulled from somewhere on the internet: "Its time Frank gets the axe. The man just doesn't learn. Whats with a different lineup every night? What is with the Collins infatuation? Anyone notice that most of Gasol's points came from 18 feet out. The rotation is a mess. Magloire seems to have disappeared off the Nets radar yet Collins and Boone keep getting minutes. Baffling indeed."</p>
Here this person begins by seeming to imply that Frank should be fired because he is unable to change his approach to coaching, a long-time complaint made by critics. In the next sentence, he criticizes Frank for changing the line-up. He then criticizes Frank for using Collins, who, according to some, is an excellent interior defender. He then notes that all of Gasol's points came from 18 feet out.</p>
In the first 5 sentences, we have 2 examples of a person indirectly refuting his own opinion, and yet this person's judgement clearly remains unaffected by the evidence he himself provides. I wish I could thank this person for proving my point so thoroughly, but I wish for him to remain anonymous.</p>
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Dude, dont insult my intellegence, I know how to debate. Im sorry If I have touched a raw nerve but Dont talk down to me. Im disturbed because you have missed my freaking point yet again...</p>
Answer this; Is Collins a non-factor on offense? Is he too slow in transition to be a factor in fast break basketball? Is he unable to block at least 1.5 a game (A must for a defense first post player)? Is his inability to convert at the foul line a joke? Has his athletic capabilities started to elude him in the last 2 years? Has that relyable mid range jumper he once had all but dried up?</p>
Now if you have answered no to any of these questions you are disagreeing with fact. These points are what I base my opinion on.</p>
By the way by implying my facts are wrong, my arguement is wrong. Basic arguement algebra.</p>
Im sorry if Im harping on, but I object to the fact that it is in your mind what I see with my own eyes is some sort of hallucination. He is a poor fit. Thats what I see every time I tune in.</p>
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Good. If you know how to debate, you know that what you used is the straw man fallacy. You made up a position that you claimed I took, and then refuted that position. It's a wonderful trick, but then that person comes back and says, "show me where I took that position", and you have to evade the question entirely.</p>
In fact, when I first replied to you, I thought it was pretty clear I wasn't discussing your position on Collins, or even you. I made up a hypothetical you. This wasn't even a Collins thread, this was a Frank thread, and I threw in the Collins bit to allude to inflexibility of viewpoint that I've seen elsewhere on the board. I'm not even thinking of you when I say this.</p>
Now, as to your argument algebra, to dispute the facts underlying the opinion does not mean I'm saying the opinion is wrong, because, as you yourself have stated, opinions are statements of belief and can't be proven wrong. I'm not even saying you should change your opinion. For the third time, I'm saying you should be capable of doing so. There are plenty of people here who aren't. It's annoying. It makes debating with them pointless.</p>
Let me give you a hypothetical. Say there's a Nets fan who has an issue with Carter's lack of defense and poor shot selection. I know, preposterous, right? But just imagine it. Say, then, Carter starts the season by playing aggressive defense, and being more of a playmaker and getting others involved on offense. The typical Frank-and/or-Collins-bashing-type response would be to either find some other fault with him, to claim it will be short lived, or, more likely, to say Carter sucks! and be done with the discussion. It makes reading these pages a little less fun and a little more tedious.</p>
Lastly, as for Collins, I really enjoy watching good defense and intelligent basketball. It's why K-Mart was my favorite player. I'd rather see a stop than a dunk any day of the week (ok, unless it's an amazing dunk or a Kidd alley-oop). So clearly, we're relying on a different set of interpretable facts upon which to base our opinions. Also, your opinion that blocks are necessary for a defense-first player is totally wrong.</p>
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