Simmons Bonanza

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SlyPokerCat said:
If it is going to get us out of the lottery. Why would the Bulls do it for free?
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Because the Bulls are in contention, but currently have traded their 2023 pick to Orlando. Because our pick is not guaranteed to them, they can not trade a pick to improve themselves. They also owe their 2025 to S.A. So if we guarantee our pick to them, they can then look to trade our pick or their pick to try to contend this season with a move.
 
blazerkor said:
They have no chance of getting a lottery pick from us, the pick is protected through 2027 and then becomes a second rounder in 2028. This would be the gamble on their side but it wouldn't be a big gamble at all. They can either have a pick this season that has a slim chance to be a lottery pick or they will have to wait, still take a pick outside of the lottery and current firsts are worth more than future firsts because they can help you now.

This is the protection on the pick, so you understand just how petty Chicago would have to be to try to make us give them something to take said protection off:

2022 first round draft pick from Portland
Portland's 1st round pick to Chicago protected for selections 1-14 in 2022, 1-14 in 2023, 1-14 in 2024, 1-14 in 2025, 1-14 in 2026, 1-14 in 2027 and 1-14 in 2028; if Portland has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Chicago by 2028, then Portland will instead convey its 2028 2nd round pick to Chicago [Chicago-Portland, 8/28/2021]; Chicago may forfeit Portland's 2028 2nd round pick (see Chicago Outgoing)
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It would be a gamble on our part and a stupid one too. If we had injuries that happened and we still ended up in the lottery after whatever deal we made.....

It isn't petty. It is about leverage. They owe us no favors. Maybe we pay them money, maybe we give them a future 2nd. I don't see them just saying yes, lets do it out of the goodness of our hearts.
 
RR7 said:
Because the Bulls are in contention, but currently have traded their 2023 pick to Orlando. Because our pick is not guaranteed to them, they can not trade a pick to improve themselves. They also owe their 2025 to S.A. So if we guarantee our pick to them, they can then look to trade our pick or their pick to try to contend this season with a move.
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They can trade our protected pick to someone else and upgrade if they wanted to try to do that. They still have their own pick for 2022 which is looking like it will be in the mid 20's anyways. They might find a taker that thinks we sneak into the playoffs making our pick more valuable to them than their own.
 
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SlyPokerCat said:
I get it. But, that trade would jump start a rebuild for us. Dame is one of a kind but he isn't getting any younger. I'd like to see him have a shot at winning one and I don't see that possible with us, unfortunately.
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Sure, if Philly could somehow find three lottery picks for us, but not for very late picks.
 
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UKRAINEFAN said:
Sure, if Philly could somehow find three lottery firsts for us, but not for very late picks.
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This is the thing about trading Dame for picks right now, especially to a team already contending. If it was draft day and you had a target in the draft along with a young proven talent and then some future draft considerations then we could pull the old screw job on Dame. For real, there just isn't going to be a trade out there that gets Dame where he would want to go and gets us anything close to what Dame is going to give us for the next few years. The trade isn't going to be out there.

So what makes sense is to let the greatest Blazer of all time be here as long as he wants and if he decides he doesn't want to anymore (which I think is very unlikely) then you sit him down and tell him you're going to trade him but do what's best for the team at that point... unless it's at a point in his career where his trade value is low and then we can trade him to a team of his choice.
 
blazerkor said:
This is the thing about trading Dame for picks right now, especially to a team already contending. If it was draft day and you had a target in the draft along with a young proven talent and then some future draft considerations then we could pull the old screw job on Dame. For real, there just isn't going to be a trade out there that gets Dame where he would want to go and gets us anything close to what Dame is going to give us for the next few years. The trade isn't going to be out there.

So what makes sense is to let the greatest Blazer of all time be here as long as he wants and if he decides he doesn't want to anymore (which I think is very unlikely) then you sit him down and tell him you're going to trade him but do what's best for the team at that point... unless it's at a point in his career where his trade value is low and then we can trade him to a team of his choice.
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Just allowing him to be here just because isn't going to get us any closer to a championship. If they can put an actual team together that can compete with the Warriors, then I am all for letting Dame ride out the next 5+ years of his career with us.

I don't see many ways for us to do that.

If we aren't going to be even close to contending, it is foolish to pay him 50+ million at 35 or whatever just out of feelings.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
Just allowing him to be here just because isn't going to get us any closer to a championship. If they can put an actual team together that can compete with the Warriors, then I am all for letting Dame ride out the next 5+ years of his career with us.

I don't see many ways for us to do that.

If we aren't going to be even close to contending, it is foolish to pay him 50+ million at 35 or whatever just out of feelings.
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I would never do anything just out of feelings. I'm saying that I wouldn't give some other team a championship or three with Dame unless we are getting back players we know will make an impact on our future efforts to win a championship. Giving Dame to the Sixers for a player they don't play at all (regardless of how talented he is), Maxey who is good but not great and three picks that will all be glorified second rounders because we just gave them Dame to go with Embiid, Harris and the six really good role players they have around those guys, is a bad idea.

You don't think we can make moves to contend with Dame. I do. I think it's that simple. The fact is we've never had a GM willing to take big swings in order to really give Dame a chance. Hopefully now we do or if Joe is risk averse like his predecessor then he won't be our GM in the summer and we'll get someone with a vision for building a contender around Dame then. I hope Joe is a swing for the fences guy with vision because he seems like a smart high character individual and I'd love to get things going before the trade deadline as opposed to before and during the draft.
 
BBert said:
If I owned the Blazers I would never trade Dame for any package unless he told me he wanted to be traded. It's called loyalty and Dame deserves that.
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And fans deserve more than mediocrity. If a team isn't trying to win a championship what is the point?
 
Lots of interest, just not at the Morey-onic levels that their GM would like. I don't blame home for trying to get all he can, but a degree of reality has to set in at some point.

That said, some team will likely offer more than we think is reasonable, although it still won't reach Morey's ridiculous initial levels.
 
TBpup said:
Lots of interest, just not at the Morey-onic levels that their GM would like. I don't blame home for trying to get all he can, but a degree of reality has to set in at some point.

That said, some team will likely offer more than we think is reasonable, although it still won't reach Morey's ridiculous initial levels.
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I don't think Morey expected to get a return like the initial proposals he floated. I think he was just setting a super high early bar for two reasons: 1. it's just standard negotiating to start higher than what you'd accept in the end so you can appear to come down in the negotiations and 2. he wanted to establish that he won't be conducting any fire sale for Simmons, taking that expectation/hope off the table right from the start.

I'll wait and see how this Simmons situation concludes before I decide how smart Morey has been. I do think he made the right decision to reject early, l0w-ball offers and I think most of the hate directed at him is from fans of other teams enraged that he won't gift their favorite team Simmons for whatever odds and ends they're happy to be rid of.
 
Minstrel said:
I don't think Morey expected to get a return like the initial proposals he floated. I think he was just setting a super high early bar for two reasons: 1. it's just standard negotiating to start higher than what you'd accept in the end so you can appear to come down in the negotiations and 2. he wanted to establish that he won't be conducting any fire sale for Simmons, taking that expectation/hope off the table right from the start.

I'll wait and see how this Simmons situation concludes before I decide how smart Morey has been. I do think he made the right decision to reject early, l0w-ball offers and I think most of the hate directed at him is from fans of other teams enraged that he won't gift their favorite team Simmons for whatever odds and ends they're happy to be rid of.
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Your basic problem is that you are entirely too non-biased and level-headed in your thought processes. You really should consider being a moderator, maybe even globally.
 
Minstrel said:
I'll wait and see how this Simmons situation concludes before I decide how smart Morey has been. I do think he made the right decision to reject early, l0w-ball offers and I think most of the hate directed at him is from fans of other teams enraged that he won't gift their favorite team Simmons for whatever odds and ends they're happy to be rid of.
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have we actually heard about enough offers to conclude there were just low-ball offers? All I remember is what Morey was asking, not much about what he was offered
 
wizenheimer said:
have we actually heard about enough offers to conclude there were just low-ball offers? All I remember is what Morey was asking, not much about what he was offered
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We've only heard rumors, like CJ and picks for Simmons or the Kings trying to assemble a package for Simmons that didn't include Fox, Haliburton or Mitchell. Rumors are probably all we can realistically have access to, but they painted a picture of teams trying to get Simmons while trying to dump spare parts on the Sixers.
 
I saw where the Cavs have entered discussions for Simmons.
Morey was smart to set the bar high and wait before the deadline as like with real estate around here there will be a multiple bids.
 
On RealGM, a fan suggested AD/RW for Simmons/Tobias. What do you think? Would both teams take that deal? Would be interesting to see the Lakers give up on AD. Sixers would field RW/Seth/?/AD/Embiid. That's a mess of a team but AD + Embiid is interesting and AD doesn't have to worry about playing center anymore. Meanwhile the Lakers are LeBron/Bradley/Tobias/Simmons/Dwight. I don't know about that.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
On RealGM, a fan suggested AD/RW for Simmons/Tobias. What do you think? Would both teams take that deal? Would be interesting to see the Lakers give up on AD. Sixers would field RW/Seth/?/AD/Embiid. That's a mess of a team but AD + Embiid is interesting and AD doesn't have to worry about playing center anymore. Meanwhile the Lakers are LeBron/Bradley/Tobias/Simmons/Dwight. I don't know about that.
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Why, on this or any other habitable earth, would the 76ers do that?
 
julius said:
Why, on this or any other habitable earth, would the 76ers do that?
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Because in theory, AD is the best player in the deal. At least, he was 14 months ago when he won a championship with the Lakers.
 
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