OT Single-Payer Health Systems Suck

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TorturedBlazerFan said:
We are a crony capitalist country. A mix of big government and big corporations scratching each others back.
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yep, have been for many years. Economist say we have a mix enterprise, bigger than intended government and capitalism.
 
ABM said:
Exactly..Lakeridge High....mostly subsidized by the pretentious 1%ers.
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That would be me but I never considered myself one of the 1%ers. I've always thought of myself as one of the 10%ers or maybe one of the 5%ers.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
No, I'm saying something very simple that surely everyone can agree with: you can't tell which is better out of Pepsi or Coke unless you've tried both.
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No, you're not.
You are conflating a product with a concept. With this you are trying to tell us there is no such thing as a valid thought experiment.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Who's best suited to compare "single-payer" to the American model? Answer, people who've lived under both and experienced care under both. I lived for 20 years under the British NHS and 30 years under the American system. I am now an American citizen. And I can say without hesitation that the American system is a bizarre nightmare that only the people who get rich off it could possibly think is good. The NHS is superior in every way, including wait times (in my experience). Of course, it's not what it was, but when I was a kid we lived way out in the middle of the country at the end of a pot-hole ridden dirt track. When I was very sick with the flu, the doctor CAME TO OUR HOUSE to care for us. Didn't cost us a penny (other than what we paid in taxes, which wasn't much, because we weren't wealthy).
I have never understood Americans' bizarre love for this system that is designed only to make middlemen wealthy.

Please do not comment on "single payer" unless you have lived at least a decade under one. You are not qualified.
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This is a very ignorant comment. Not saying it's stupid, but am saying it's ignorant.
 
julius said:
but you're fine subsidizing the upper class?

And what do you consider "middle class"?
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One of the things I had failed to mention is that the middle class has been doing fine, just fine under Trump's policies. Not to mention, Blacks, Hispanics, et al. It's not just about the 1%ers....which has become a bit of a boorish buzzword in my estimation....

https://www.heritage.org/markets-an...e-class-incomes-surging-thanks-trump-policies

Middle-Class Incomes Surging – Thanks to Trump Policies

".....this has been one of the biggest middle-class success stories in modern times, and it is a testament to the success of the Trump tax, regulatory and energy policies."



 
ABM said:
One of the things I had failed to mention is that the middle class has been doing fine, just fine under Trump's policies. Not to mention, Blacks, Hispanics, et al. It's not just about the 1%ers....which has become a bit of a boorish buzzword in my estimation....

https://www.heritage.org/markets-an...e-class-incomes-surging-thanks-trump-policies

Middle-Class Incomes Surging – Thanks to Trump Policies

".....this has been one of the biggest middle-class success stories in modern times, and it is a testament to the success of the Trump tax, regulatory and energy policies."


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Written by Stephen Moore. Classic. You genuinely ARE a troll.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
Written by Stephen Moore. Classic. You genuinely ARE a troll.
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Here's are some question you might want to ask in regards to left/right-leaning or other articles: Is it responsible reporting? Is the writer actually legitimate? A hack? Does the piece bring some facts & figures and/or other references? You know, stuff like that. Go ahead, call me a troll if you'd like. I can handle that weak sauce. Again, the point is, the middle class and less-than are certainly not suffering under Trump's economic policies, and you know it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Moore_(writer)

https://www.foxnews.com/media/stephen-moore-trump-economy-middle-class
 
ABM said:
One of the things I had failed to mention is that the middle class has been doing fine, just fine under Trump's policies. Not to mention, Blacks, Hispanics, et al. It's not just about the 1%ers....which has become a bit of a boorish buzzword in my estimation....

https://www.heritage.org/markets-an...e-class-incomes-surging-thanks-trump-policies

Middle-Class Incomes Surging – Thanks to Trump Policies

".....this has been one of the biggest middle-class success stories in modern times, and it is a testament to the success of the Trump tax, regulatory and energy policies."
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First off, the middle class is not surging. Secondly, you linked an obviously a conservative rag that is biased and not exactly honest with the truth.

Try looking outside your bubble.
 
ABM said:
Here's are some question you might want to ask in regards to left/right-leaning or other articles: Is it responsible reporting? Is the writer actually legitimate? A hack? Does the piece bring some facts & figures and/or other references? You know, stuff like that. Go ahead, call me a troll if you'd like. I can handle that weak sauce. Again, the point is, the middle class and less-than are certainly not suffering under Trump's economic policies, and you know it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Moore_(writer)

https://www.foxnews.com/media/stephen-moore-trump-economy-middle-class
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I think you could probably make a case that the middle class and upper-middle-class have a better life now than ever before. I think also you could say that our lower middle class and poor have it as bad as ever and the gaps are becoming giant voids. I don't think it is all due to Trump as I think it's been due to political sale outs of the American people for a half-century or so. All my opinion I suppose.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I think you could probably make a case that the middle class and upper-middle-class have a better life now than ever before. I think also you could say that our lower middle class and poor have it as bad as ever and the gaps are becoming giant voids. I don't think it is all due to Trump as I think it's been due to political sale outs of the American people for a half-century or so. All my opinion I suppose.
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Let's not forget the women, either....

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/job-creation-exceeds-expectations-women-workers-see-gains-2/

Oh, and other demands for labor...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/19/its...-for-companies-to-find-qualified-workers.html
 
ABM said:
Let's not forget the women, either....

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/job-creation-exceeds-expectations-women-workers-see-gains-2/

Oh, and other demands for labor...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/19/its...-for-companies-to-find-qualified-workers.html
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The second part of this isn't really a good thing... We can't get skilled workers because our education system is failing... I think we need to reform our education to something past the 1800's way of doing education but that's another topic completely.

Of course part of the problem is some of these companies are asking for the most absurd qualifications. Love when it's like we need a "jr" engineer, with a PhD and 8 years of experience (ok I'm exaggerating a little), but last year I interviewed a computer science grad from Harvard who was talking about that companies are flat out telling her they won't hire her without experience... Which is like how are you supposed to get experience if you can't get a job...
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
......Which is like how are you supposed to get experience if you can't get a job...
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Boils down to someone taking a chance.

Same rule applies to first getting credit, an apartment, etc.
 
ABM said:
Here's are some question you might want to ask in regards to left/right-leaning or other articles: Is it responsible reporting? Is the writer actually legitimate? A hack?
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Well, you ask the right questions at least. Here are the answers: No, Moore is not legitimate. Yes, he is a hack.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Well, you ask the right questions at least. Here are the answers: No, Moore is not legitimate. Yes, he is a hack.

barfo
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Again, your one-sighted perspective is noted, as always.
 
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ABM said:
Here's are some question you might want to ask in regards to left/right-leaning or other articles: Is it responsible reporting? Is the writer actually legitimate? A hack? Does the piece bring some facts & figures and/or other references? You know, stuff like that. Go ahead, call me a troll if you'd like. I can handle that weak sauce. Again, the point is, the middle class and less-than are certainly not suffering under Trump's economic policies, and you know it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Moore_(writer)

https://www.foxnews.com/media/stephen-moore-trump-economy-middle-class
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The heritage foundation has used its corporate donor money to great effect, using lobbyists to shape the platforms of the last 6 presidents, including Trump.

So, in effect...they are THE scary swamp monster yall go on about. A very powerful corporate funded policy writing think tank that aggressively lobbies the entirety of our political system, without disclosing their funding.

They are not the news. They are by definition, propaganda.
 
drexlersdad said:
The heritage foundation has used its corporate donor money to great effect, using lobbyists to shape the platforms of the last 6 presidents, including Trump.

So, in effect...they are THE scary swamp monster yall go on about. A very powerful corporate funded policy writing think tank that aggressively lobbies the entirety of our political system, without disclosing their funding.

They are not the news. They are by definition, propaganda.
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The Heritage Foundation post was NOT approved by Trump. By ABM? Yes. By Trump? No.

Moral of the story? Pull your head out the swamp.

j/k :)
 
ABM said:
One of the things I had failed to mention is that the middle class has been doing fine, just fine under Trump's policies. Not to mention, Blacks, Hispanics, et al. It's not just about the 1%ers....which has become a bit of a boorish buzzword in my estimation....

https://www.heritage.org/markets-an...e-class-incomes-surging-thanks-trump-policies

Middle-Class Incomes Surging – Thanks to Trump Policies

".....this has been one of the biggest middle-class success stories in modern times, and it is a testament to the success of the Trump tax, regulatory and energy policies."


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Oh ABM, look at your source, The Heritage Foundation. Do you realize who they are? No, you can't trust them for an honest take on anything.
 
ABM said:
Here's are some question you might want to ask in regards to left/right-leaning or other articles: Is it responsible reporting? Is the writer actually legitimate? A hack? Does the piece bring some facts & figures and/or other references? You know, stuff like that. Go ahead, call me a troll if you'd like. I can handle that weak sauce. Again, the point is, the middle class and less-than are certainly not suffering under Trump's economic policies, and you know it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Moore_(writer)

https://www.foxnews.com/media/stephen-moore-trump-economy-middle-class
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And now you have the audacity of link Fox News, tsk, tsk.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
Written by Stephen Moore. Classic. You genuinely ARE a troll.
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ABM might be wrong but he is no troll. Being a troll would imply an intent to incite which he clearly is not trying to do. I see him as taking a lot of heat and trying not to overreact to it. Kudos to him for that.
 
Lanny said:
ABM might be wrong but he is no troll. Being a troll would imply an intent to incite which he clearly is not trying to do. I see him as taking a lot of heat and trying not to overreact to it. Kudos to him for that.
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Just for that, I may not ask you to buy me that 2nd drink. ;)
 
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