So If Memphis takes Rubio, is Conley available again?

[Rastapopoulos]

Considering James is leading arguably the best team in basketball now, I think New York can forget about James. Cleveland can pay him the most, he's a hometown hero and he has a far better team in Cleveland than he'd have in New York.

Really? Remove James from Cleveland and would that team make the playoffs? Who's the second best player on that team?

It's not the talent level of the team that's in Cleveland's favor - it's his loyalty and the team cohesion. But some key pieces of that team will get old fast (big Z, Ben Wallace) and Verajao is always threatening to leave. That Cleveland team is only likely to get worse, not better. Meanwhile NY will have enough cap room to sign James AND another star. I bet you they believe they can do it. And remember how much James loves the Yankees...

It's not like he's hurting for endorsements or media attention, so I don't think moving to a bigger market is worth giving up any of those things, let alone all of them.

Hey, his jersey was outsold by Kobe's. Think that would ever happen if he was in NY?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

That is a deal I would like to see the Grizzlies do just because Aldridge is pretty much a sure thing. Plus that fills the Grizzlies one EVIDENT hole in the starting lineup, power forward. I'm pretty sure nothing like this happens though.

Maybe if the management delivered a letter to the NBA head office that said "we lied about Miles's knees - they were irreparably messed up, he should have been medically retired, and we made him play out of sheer spite" KP might think about it.

Oh, and about 5 draft picks and maybe Marc Gasol too.

 

[Minstrel]

Really? Remove James from Cleveland and would that team make the playoffs? Who's the second best player on that team?

Mo Williams, Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Anderson Varejao are all good to very good players. In addition, they're deep. Beyond individual production, they've been coached into a great defensive unit. James is certainly the straw that stirs that drink, but he'd have very little drink to stir in New York. I think James in New York would resemble Cleveland the couple of seasons before this year. A playoff team who can win a round or two in the East, but not a serious title contender. Unless New York was able to build a good team in addition to James...which might happen, but why risk it? Cleveland has already done it.

Hey, his jersey was outsold by Kobe's. Think that would ever happen if he was in NY?

Yes, it might. A lot of people seem to think Kobe is as good as James and Kobe is in a massive media market himself. But it's not really a practical difference to James' life whether he's #1 or #2 in jersey sales, since he doesn't get the revenues from those.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

All right, I've worked out a foolproof method to get Rubio, and it's this (in that version Blake is a standing for cap space - much like in real life):

Memphis: dumps Marco Jaric, swaps the #2 for the #4 (because they're strongly rumored to really want Thabeet) and gets Bayless, too.

Sacramento: Gives up the #4 for ? a bunch of Portland picks plus $3M
AND: offloads Nocioni (nice player, but doesn't fit, and makes a boatload over many years) and Udrih (again, a big mistake of a signing) and in return gets Sergio (who is an upgrade on Udrih, I think even his detractors can agree, and we hope Petrie will take the name "Spanish Chocolate" seriously), Travis and Joel.

Portland: takes on Jaric (instant waive), Udrih (possible waive) and Nocioni (definite keep) and gets the #2 pick for Joel, Travis, Bayless and Sergio.

Not sure that I'd do it, but I think Sacto is looking to trade their #4 and Memphis doesn't want Rubio as much as players available a couple of spots later (Thabeet, but also possibly Harden if they think OJ Mayo is really going to be their PG).

I think Sergio to Sacto makes perfect sense, and is the best situation for him. They don't give a shit about defense and he'd get the green light - he'd thrive, they'd love him. I think they'd also like Joel because then the rest of the team could continue to gamble and it's possible he'd clean up for them. Not so great for him, but...

And don't forget an all-important fact: both Sacto and Memphis are hemorrhaging money (as are the Maloofs, and Heisley is a dick), so dumping contracts will be worth a lot more to them than their fans would want.

That would leave us with:
C: Greg, LaMarcus for a while (ouch - paper thin here)
PF: LaMarcus, sometimes Nocioni, Freeland? McDyess (with the mid-level)?
SF: Batum, Webster, Nocioni
SG: Brandon, Rudy
PG: Blake at first but pretty soon Rubio and a fight between Udrih and the Finnisher for third-string.

Huh?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Mo Williams, Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Anderson Varejao are all good to very good players.

No they aren't. They just aren't. Z was once, Varejao is a great hustling backup on a good team and Mo Williams is lucky he's found the perfect situation.

In addition, they're deep. Beyond individual production, they've been coached into a great defensive unit.

This I will give you. That team is like the Rockets after McGrady went down. All chemistry. But chemistry is a fragile thing, and I really really don't see Mo Williams having this good a year again. He's the Jamaal Magloire of guards.

James is certainly the straw that stirs that drink, but he'd have very little drink to stir in New York.

Really? Like I said, they'll have enough cap room for, say, Chris Bosh too. Then you do the whole vets-signing-on-for-a-championship thing and Bob's Your Uncle.

I think James in New York would resemble Cleveland the couple of seasons before this year. A playoff team who can win a round or two in the East, but not a serious title contender. Unless New York was able to build a good team in addition to James...which might happen, but why risk it? Cleveland has already done it.

Cleveland this year has overachieved. And like I said, Ilgauskas is lucky to be walking and nearing retirement age.

Yes, it might. A lot of people seem to think Kobe is as good as James and Kobe is in a massive media market himself. But it's not really a practical difference to James' life whether he's #1 or #2 in jersey sales, since he doesn't get the revenues from those.

It's not people in LA buying Kobe jerseys. It's people all over the world because the Lakers are always on TV. LA has a lot of people but it's not a great media market, otherwise it might have more than zero pro (American) football teams. (Yes, I know, USC, ha ha ha.)

 

[VanillaGorilla]

All right, I've worked out a foolproof method to get Rubio, and it's this (in that version Blake is a standing for cap space - much like in real life):

Memphis: dumps Marco Jaric, swaps the #2 for the #4 (because they're strongly rumored to really want Thabeet) and gets Bayless, too.

Sacramento: Gives up the #4 for ? a bunch of Portland picks plus $3M
AND: offloads Nocioni (nice player, but doesn't fit, and makes a boatload over many years) and Udrih (again, a big mistake of a signing) and in return gets Sergio (who is an upgrade on Udrih, I think even his detractors can agree, and we hope Petrie will take the name "Spanish Chocolate" seriously), Travis and Joel.

Portland: takes on Jaric (instant waive), Udrih (possible waive) and Nocioni (definite keep) and gets the #2 pick for Joel, Travis, Bayless and Sergio.

Not sure that I'd do it, but I think Sacto is looking to trade their #4 and Memphis doesn't want Rubio as much as players available a couple of spots later (Thabeet, but also possibly Harden if they think OJ Mayo is really going to be their PG).

I think Sergio to Sacto makes perfect sense, and is the best situation for him. They don't give a shit about defense and he'd get the green light - he'd thrive, they'd love him. I think they'd also like Joel because then the rest of the team could continue to gamble and it's possible he'd clean up for them. Not so great for him, but...

That would leave us with:
C: Greg, LaMarcus for a while (ouch - paper thin here)
PF: LaMarcus, sometimes Nocioni, Freeland? McDyess (with the mid-level)?
SF: Batum, Webster, Nocioni
SG: Brandon, Rudy
PG: Blake at first but pretty soon Rubio and a fight between Udrih and the Finnisher for third-string.

Huh?

I wouldn't do it. I just don't think Rubio is worth all that trouble.

And I'm not even a Sergio hater and I wouldn't be comfortable saying he's better than Udrih.

 

[Minstrel]

No they aren't. They just aren't. Z was once, Varejao is a great hustling backup on a good team and Mo Williams is lucky he's found the perfect situation.

I don't agree with you. I watch the Cavaliers quite a bit, I have since James was drafted (no coincidence, that). Williams and Ilgauskas are both extremely skilled. There are games when either of them will take over and James will take on more of a complementary role. Are they helped in that by James' presence? Absolutely. But previous teammates didn't do these things even alongside Himself. As for Varejao, he's not terrifically skilled as a scorer, but he's a very good rebounder, defender and a surprisingly good passer.

Really? Like I said, they'll have enough cap room for, say, Chris Bosh too. Then you do the whole vets-signing-on-for-a-championship thing and Bob's Your Uncle.

In the perfect scenario (James and another star accepting less money to join the Knicks), then yes, he could end up in as good or a better situation. I just don't think it's a great likelihood. People are talking about 2010 like it will be a unique moment in history...I'll believe it when I see it. Up to now, the history of free agency since the max contract was instituted is that superstars/stars rarely switch teams in free agency if their teams want to keep them (so, Steve Nash going to Phoenix doesn't count), because players want to maximize their salaries. The idea that New York will lure not just one, but two stars/superstars is a dubious proposition to me.

Cleveland this year has overachieved. And like I said, Ilgauskas is lucky to be walking and nearing retirement age.

From your perspective, this really shouldn't matter. If he's not that good, he's eminently replaceable. From my perspective, he is good, but he's being asked to carry less of the load thanks to James being around and should be able to play another 2-3 years. He's become amazingly durable. The last time he missed significant time was 7 years ago and he played 62 games then. Beyond that, I think Ferry is getting pretty good at putting the right players in around James.

It's not people in LA buying Kobe jerseys. It's people all over the world because the Lakers are always on TV.

Cleveland is on TV all the time, too, and now that they're a top team and James has solidified himself as the best player since Jordan, I think Cleveland will start to be the NBA's most featured team. He doesn't need New York for that.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Never said you needed Conley, I just think its funny that Portland has a pretty evident need (point guard), yet you won't do business with one team that could very well have a point guard on the block on the grounds of their lack of niceness.

Yeah ya did.

Yeah, screw the point guard that we NEED so much!! Memphis meanies...

 

[rocketeer]

This I will give you. That team is like the Rockets after McGrady went down. All chemistry. But chemistry is a fragile thing, and I really really don't see Mo Williams having this good a year again. He's the Jamaal Magloire of guards.

have you not been paying attention to basketball the two seasons prior to this one? mo williams is a good player(not allstar level even though he made the team, but just below that). he has been for a few years now. and there is absolutely no reason for his numbers to drop off. his numbers did exactly what should have been expected coming to the cavs. his per game numbers stayed the same or dropped, but his percentages all went up because he was getting easier shot attempts. why exactly can't he have another year like this one?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I wouldn't do it. I just don't think Rubio is worth all that trouble.

All right, here's another suggestion:

acquire Washington's #5 and Milwaukee's #10 (this might just require money and/or taking on a bad contract) then trade them either directly to Memphis, or if Memphis really wants Thabeet and doesn't want to risk him being gone by #5, then trade both to OKC (again, with cash or maybe Outlaw or Bayless) and then trade the #3 pick and money for the #2 pick or just hope that Memphis goes with Thabeet.

In general, I think the following facts open the door (just a crack) to getting Rubio:

* Memphis doesn't really want Rubio.
* Rubio is not ideal for OKC either.
* There are teams like Sacto (4), Washington (5) and Milwaukee (10) who want to get out of this draft altogether.
* We have caproom to absorb bad contracts
* We have good cheap young players
* We have a deep-pocketed owner who has been the only owner actually to buy picks outright the past few drafts.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

have you not been paying attention to basketball the two seasons prior to this one?

Yes, that's right. I understand that Tracy McGrady and Manu Ginobili had all-NBA years and the Spurs are locks to win the title.

mo williams is a good player(not allstar level even though he made the team, but just below that).

He's a shoot-first PG with limited passing skills and (prior to this year) very little interest in playing defense who has bounced around several teams sorely in need of good PG play who have nonetheless let him go. He is in the absolute PERFECT position to look good.

 

[rocketeer]

Yes, that's right. I understand that Tracy McGrady and Manu Ginobili had all-NBA years and the Spurs are locks to win the title.

you're acting like mo williams hasn't been a good player the past couple of years. mo williams is in a great situation for him. playing next to lebron would be great for anyone. that doesn't change that mo williams has shown that he's a good player without lebron.

He's a shoot-first PG with limited passing skills and (prior to this year) very little interest in playing defense who has bounced around several teams sorely in need of good PG play who have nonetheless let him go. He is in the absolute PERFECT position to look good.

bounced around several teams? the cavs are the 3rd team he's played on. he was a 2nd round pick for the jazz and played a year. then he went to the bucks who then resigned him to a big deal when he was a free agent because they wanted to keep him. the cavs were able to trade for him because the bucks needed to save money and weren't winning. not exactly "bouncing around".

yes, he is in the perfect position for him. but he already looked good before he got there. his final season with the bucks he put up 17 and 6 with very good shooting percentages.

 

[Nikolokolus]

All right, here's another suggestion:

acquire Washington's #5 and Milwaukee's #10 (this might just require money and/or taking on a bad contract) then trade them either directly to Memphis, or if Memphis really wants Thabeet and doesn't want to risk him being gone by #5, then trade both to OKC (again, with cash or maybe Outlaw or Bayless) and then trade the #3 pick and money for the #2 pick or just hope that Memphis goes with Thabeet.

In general, I think the following facts open the door (just a crack) to getting Rubio:

* Memphis doesn't really want Rubio.
* Rubio is not ideal for OKC either.
* There are teams like Sacto (4), Washington (5) and Milwaukee (10) who want to get out of this draft altogether.
* We have caproom to absorb bad contracts
* We have good cheap young players
* We have a deep-pocketed owner who has been the only owner actually to buy picks outright the past few drafts.

That's an awful lot of "maybes," "what ifs," and wrangling for just the hope that Memphis is stupid enough to draft Thabeet.

We get it, you're in love with Rubio (and yes he does look like he's going to be a pretty good player) but I think you're starting to stretch the limits of what is reasonable, possible and even advisable for this team's off-season strategy to improve its point guard position.

 

[Nikolokolus]

All right, I've worked out a foolproof method to get Rubio, and it's this (in that version Blake is a standing for cap space - much like in real life):

Memphis: dumps Marco Jaric, swaps the #2 for the #4 (because they're strongly rumored to really want Thabeet) and gets Bayless, too.

Sacramento: Gives up the #4 for ? a bunch of Portland picks plus $3M
AND: offloads Nocioni (nice player, but doesn't fit, and makes a boatload over many years) and Udrih (again, a big mistake of a signing) and in return gets Sergio (who is an upgrade on Udrih, I think even his detractors can agree, and we hope Petrie will take the name "Spanish Chocolate" seriously), Travis and Joel.

Portland: takes on Jaric (instant waive), Udrih (possible waive) and Nocioni (definite keep) and gets the #2 pick for Joel, Travis, Bayless and Sergio.

Not sure that I'd do it, but I think Sacto is looking to trade their #4 and Memphis doesn't want Rubio as much as players available a couple of spots later (Thabeet, but also possibly Harden if they think OJ Mayo is really going to be their PG).

I think Sergio to Sacto makes perfect sense, and is the best situation for him. They don't give a shit about defense and he'd get the green light - he'd thrive, they'd love him. I think they'd also like Joel because then the rest of the team could continue to gamble and it's possible he'd clean up for them. Not so great for him, but...

And don't forget an all-important fact: both Sacto and Memphis are hemorrhaging money (as are the Maloofs, and Heisley is a dick), so dumping contracts will be worth a lot more to them than their fans would want.

That would leave us with:
C: Greg, LaMarcus for a while (ouch - paper thin here)
PF: LaMarcus, sometimes Nocioni, Freeland? McDyess (with the mid-level)?
SF: Batum, Webster, Nocioni
SG: Brandon, Rudy
PG: Blake at first but pretty soon Rubio and a fight between Udrih and the Finnisher for third-string.

Huh?

I'm not feeling it.

So who besides Brandon has the ability to create their own shot on this roster? It sure would be nice to have at least one other guard or wing that can get dribble penetration and/or get his own shot if we're shipping Travis out of town. This is a fairly substantial step backwards in my opinion offensively and defensively. Furthermore I'd give it a year to see if Greg can stay healthy for a full season before we ship Joel off to purgatory.

ps. You actually want Nocioni? Fuck I hate that flopping bitch.

 

[ODENISGOD]

I would give them outlaw sergio and our pick in a heartbeat

 

[MrSelfDestruct]

Edited.

That would leave us with:
C: Greg, LaMarcus for a while (ouch - paper thin here)
PF: LaMarcus, sometimes Nocioni, Freeland? McDyess (with the mid-level)?
SF: Batum, Webster, Nocioni
SG: Brandon, Rudy
PG: Blake at first but pretty soon Rubio and a fight between Udrih and the Finnisher for third-string.

Huh?

I don't like it at all. Let's face it, Greg hasn't been the healthiest guy in the world and if he goes out for any period of time like he did this year, that leaves us with a starting 5 of:

C-LMA
PF- Nocioni? McDyess? Seriously?
SF-Batum
SG-Roy
PG-Blake/Rubio

I'd say that's less a than intimidating front line.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

He's a shoot-first PG with limited passing skills and (prior to this year) very little interest in playing defense who has bounced around several teams sorely in need of good PG play who have nonetheless let him go. He is in the absolute PERFECT position to look good.

He was only on 2 teams prior to being on the cavs. Including 4 years on the bucks, where his stats and play steadily increased. You obviously just don't know what you are talking about.


Half of his stats improved slightly with the Cavs and half were better on the Bucks due to him having the ball more. So if you are trying to say he didn't look good before he was with LeBron, that is just flat out wrong.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

All right, I've worked out a foolproof method to get Rubio, and it's this (in that version Blake is a standing for cap space - much like in real life):

Memphis: dumps Marco Jaric, swaps the #2 for the #4 (because they're strongly rumored to really want Thabeet) and gets Bayless, too.

Sacramento: Gives up the #4 for ? a bunch of Portland picks plus $3M
AND: offloads Nocioni (nice player, but doesn't fit, and makes a boatload over many years) and Udrih (again, a big mistake of a signing) and in return gets Sergio (who is an upgrade on Udrih, I think even his detractors can agree, and we hope Petrie will take the name "Spanish Chocolate" seriously), Travis and Joel.

Portland: takes on Jaric (instant waive), Udrih (possible waive) and Nocioni (definite keep) and gets the #2 pick for Joel, Travis, Bayless and Sergio.

Not sure that I'd do it, but I think Sacto is looking to trade their #4 and Memphis doesn't want Rubio as much as players available a couple of spots later (Thabeet, but also possibly Harden if they think OJ Mayo is really going to be their PG).

I think Sergio to Sacto makes perfect sense, and is the best situation for him. They don't give a shit about defense and he'd get the green light - he'd thrive, they'd love him. I think they'd also like Joel because then the rest of the team could continue to gamble and it's possible he'd clean up for them. Not so great for him, but...

And don't forget an all-important fact: both Sacto and Memphis are hemorrhaging money (as are the Maloofs, and Heisley is a dick), so dumping contracts will be worth a lot more to them than their fans would want.

That would leave us with:
C: Greg, LaMarcus for a while (ouch - paper thin here)
PF: LaMarcus, sometimes Nocioni, Freeland? McDyess (with the mid-level)?
SF: Batum, Webster, Nocioni
SG: Brandon, Rudy
PG: Blake at first but pretty soon Rubio and a fight between Udrih and the Finnisher for third-string.

Huh?

I believe Nikolokolus and MrSelfDestruct sufficiently pointed out how this would be a terrible idea.

 

[JE]

Yeah ya did.

Oh, so you don't need a point guard? kthx I was under the impression that Portland was looking for one.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Oh, so you don't need a point guard? kthx I was under the impression that Portland was looking for one.

Portland does need one. It just doesn't NEED to be Conley. In fact I think a veteran with playoff experience would be much better than Conley.

But I do like how you were wrong in saying you didn't say we needed one and then turned right around and tried to argue something else.

 

[JE]

Portland does need one. It just doesn't NEED to be Conley. In fact I think a veteran with playoff experience would be much better than Conley.

But I do like how you were wrong in saying you didn't say we needed one and then turned right around and tried to argue something else.

Deleted.


Portlands needs a point guard. I said that. If you lookey lookey at my original post, I never specified anyone. You need a point guard. Conley is a point guard. Conley is available. Portland could use Conley. You don't want Conley because you loathe Memphis so much for beating you fair and square.


The great thing is, this isn't even the main point I was making with my post, I was actually mocking you and every other simple-twit that has their panties wadded up over Darius Miles and the Grizzlies, as if you guys are actually entitled to that cap space and above the principle of shitty luck.


All caught up?

 

[oldguy]

Great, the mod troller is back.

 

[JE]

Great, the mod troller is back.

I'm not a mod. Fail.


If a non-Blazer fan pointing out the idiocy behind someone else's thoughts is trolling, well whatever helps you sleep at night.


Oh yeah, nice to see 'slow' edited in my post when its been allowed to fly countless times in the past. Nice one Ed.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Oh holy shit are you slow.


Portlands needs a point guard. I said that. If you lookey lookey at my original post, I never specified anyone. You need a point guard. Conley is a point guard. Conley is available. Portland could use Conley. You don't want Conley because you loathe Memphis so much for beating you fair and square.


The great thing is, this isn't even the main point I was making with my post, I was actually mocking you and every other simple-twit that has their panties wadded up over Darius Miles and the Grizzlies, as if you guys are actually entitled to that cap space and above the principle of shitty luck.


All caught up?

I don't think you are caught up. You are dogging on fans for hating on Memphis and then sarcastically responeded to a fuck Memphis post with:

Yeah, screw the point guard that we need so much!! Memphis meanies...


So unless you are talking about some other Memphis PG, you are saying the Blazer need Conley. But now you are backing off (realizing that was a stupid comment) and now saying Portland could use Conley.

It's one thing to back peddle off of something you said . . . it's another thing to call a poster slow when all he is doing is trying to decifier what the hell you are saying.

Please explain: Yeah, screw the point guard that we need so much!! Memphis meanies meaning anything other than saying Blazers need Conley so much.

 

[rocketeer]

Please explain: Yeah, screw the point guard that we need so much!! Memphis meanies meaning anything other than saying Blazers need Conley so much.

it could easily be explained that he meant that portland needs a pg and they would be dumb to dismiss memphis as an option just because of the miles situation when memphis has a pg that it has been rumored in the past that portland was interested in.

 

[JE]

I don't think you are caught up. You are dogging on fans for hating on Memphis and then sarcastically responeded to a fuck Memphis post with:

Yeah, screw the point guard that we need so much!! Memphis meanies...


So unless you are talking about some other Memphis PG, you are saying the Blazer need Conley. But now you are backing off (realizing that was a stupid comment) and now saying Portland could use Conley.

Not entirely.

I think I may have posted while you were responding, so read that, and I'll clear it up further if it is necessary.

It's one thing to back peddle off of something you said . . . it's another thing to call a poster slow when all he is doing is trying to decifier what the hell you are saying.

I'm not backpedaling, I'm teaching.

Decifier? What the fuck is that, a WWE move?

Please explain: Yeah, screw the point guard that we need so much!! Memphis meanies meaning anything other than saying Blazers need Conley so much.

Already did, but I have a funny feeling you won't entirely grasp it.

 

[JE]

it could easily be explained that he meant that portland needs a pg and they would be dumb to dismiss memphis as an option just because of the miles situation when memphis has a pg that it has been rumored in the past that portland was interested in.

Gold star for having a brain.

 

[oldguy]

I'm not a mod. Fail.

Did you get fired? Good job admins!

If a non-Blazer fan pointing out the idiocy behind someone else's thoughts is trolling, well whatever helps you sleep at night.

Actually, no. I call it trolling when a non-Blazers fan comes to the Blazers board and says something stupid, like:
"I was actually mocking you and every other simple-twit that has their panties wadded up over Darius Miles and the Grizzlies, as if you guys are actually entitled to that cap space and above the principle of shitty luck."

Oh yeah, nice to see 'slow' edited in my post when its been allowed to fly countless times in the past. Nice one Ed.

ED O is Da Man!

 

[The_Lillard_King]

it could easily be explained that he meant that portland needs a pg and they would be dumb to dismiss memphis as an option just because of the miles situation when memphis has a pg that it has been rumored in the past that portland was interested in.

OK but he said Blazers would be screwing themseves by not dealing with Memphis because they have a PG the Blazers need so much.

Doesn't that say that in his opinion, the Blazers need Conley so much?

At the very least could you understand why MM would think that is what he said (because he said it . . . maybe poorly worded and not what he meant, but he said it) . . . and then JE jumps all over him for being slow . . . when in reality JE doesn't know how to express himself.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Gold star for having a brain.

So am I safe to assume you have no stars . . . gold or otherwise?