Sounds like Webster is gonna start.... and some thoughts

[STOMP]

That is so back asswards. Are you kidding me? So let's play a free-throw battle. I get to shoot 5 shots and you have to shoot 40. If I make all 5 and you miss 5, you will concede I am a much better free-throw shooter than you.

you're being very silly. Both have had plenty of chances to establish what sort of shooter they are. Deal with being wrong.

Just last offseason a regular topic brought up by Webster supporters (prior to his injury) was how Outlaw couldn't shoot a high percentage from deep like he'd done the previous season with fewer shots. The same exact BS argument that you're throwing out now was thrown out then... "Big difference" they claimed. Travis launched about three 3's a game and made 38%... if anything, more opportunities lets guys get into a groove.

Oh, and according to many reports on Nic, he's been working on his 3 ball all summer.

STOMP

 

[MIXUM]

nics threes look great this pre season. that work really payed off.

 

[Nikolokolus]

mags.. most of the posters on this board wanna hear the following.....


5. Sergio has potential

Not to ruin your rant but I can think of maybe 2 or 3 people that think this.

 

[STOMP]

nice job jumping around the question stomp.

they both have the same stats you said? correct? then have some guts and pick batum.

you're ridiculous... we both know it. Why should I play your games when you bury your head in the sand regarding facts?

STOMP

 

[MIXUM]

im backing up webster lol... you are bailing on batum pal

 

[STOMP]

im backing up webster lol... you are bailing on batum pal

good grief... your reading comprehension sucks

okay, bye-bye for a while

STOMP

 

[Blazer4ever]

Look, I like Martel and all, I think he's one of the best players we have coming of the bench, but I think he should in fact come of the bench. He's a do-it-all kind of player on offense which is very much my style of player (like Batum is on defense, BTW). But... he's a good shooter, not as good Rudy. He's a good passer, not as good as Rudy. He could be better than Rudy in going to the hoop but if that's his forte - why put him with Roy and Andre and probably Greg? I see a lot of similarities between Rudy and 'Tell and I think our rotation at SG should be Rudy, then 'Tell, with Bayless getting spot-minutes.

I hate repeating myself but this is the lineup I envision:
Miller/Blake
Rudy/Tell/Bayless
Roy/Outlaw/Batum(also getting minutes at #4 in a small lineup)
LMA/Batum/Twin towers
The Centers

 

[magnifier661]

you're being very silly. Both have had plenty of chances to establish what sort of shooter they are. Deal with being wrong.

Just last offseason a regular topic brought up by Webster supporters (prior to his injury) was how Outlaw couldn't shoot a high percentage from deep like he'd done the previous season with fewer shots. The same exact BS argument that you're throwing out now was thrown out then... "Big difference" they claimed. Travis launched about three 3's a game and made 38%... if anything, more opportunities lets guys get into a groove.

Oh, and according to many reports on Nic, he's been working on his 3 ball all summer.

STOMP

We are talking about Batum vs. Webster right? When did Outlaw come into this debate? I personally think Outlaw is a great Outside shooter, just terrible on D and rebounding.

 

[magnifier661]

Well since you're ratio is all bass ackwards (seriously you think Martell took 8 threes for every one Nic took on a per game or per season basis?) and generating foul shots is a skill unto itself completely separate from the ability to shoot a jump shot from the perimeter, I'd say your analogy doesn't hold much water.

the point is that at 19 years old Nic played a mere 18 minutes per game and about half of his shots were three point attempts of which he made 37%, the worst you can say about Nic is that his sample size of three point shots isn't large enough to make a confident predicition about future success ... Martell's 3 healthy seasons have a plenty large sample and showed me that he's a pretty inaccurate "sharp shooter." Maybe that will change this year, but if I were a betting man I'd feel more confident in continuted success/improvement from Nic than I would a reversal of pretty mediocre shooting statistics from Martell.

Wait a minute. 37% from 3 is bad? Oh my bad.... LOL

 

[MIXUM]

yep and stomp ran away

webster or batum


webster and miller

or

blake and batum



thats the way i see it

 

[magnifier661]

yep and stomp ran away

webster or batum


webster and miller

or

blake and batum



thats the way i see it

I don't get it. Why did he bring up Outlaw on the debate between Webster vs. Batum. Outlaw is the back up PF, not 3. Also, no one said Webster is a better shooter than Outlaw. Regardless, even Stomp posted Webster and Batum both shoot 37% from tre and Webster has taken way more shots. I will even give Stomp the benefit that Batum took far less shots. His argument is still invalid. They shot the same percentage.

 

[alex42083]

I'd love to see Martell in the starting lineup and I think he's looked pretty good so far after missing an entire year, but in terms of 'fit', that second unit of Blake/Rudy/Nicolas/Outlaw/Joel did not look good together last night. There just wasn't enough offense on the floor.
I'd still put Batum as the starter and Andre at PG. And let Rudy be able to work with Martell, I want to see those two together again. It's still a work in progress though and Nate will figure it out.

 

[PapaG]

Heres another question for ya...

Down by 2 with 3 seconds left.... who would you rather take the 3...

Batum or Webster?

Roy

 

[magnifier661]

Roy

I second that. Or maybe Oden down low.

 

[jlprk]

I haven't read this thread, but it's the only one going so far about tonight's game, so I'll post this here.

From 4-6 pm yesterday you could get free tickets to the game in Salt Lake City by printing this site and bringing it to a ticket sales location.

go get 'em! PRINT/SHOW THIS TWEET @One of the 3Locations listed and receive 2-free tix to the Thurs game vs. the Blazers from 4-6 PM TODAY

http://twitter.com/Utah_Jazz

Let's check the other news for the game tonight...

RT @BenBags Kyle Korver is a gametime decision Inflamation in knee/Ronnie Price to start tonight at the 2 for the #UtahJazz.

RT @BenBags CJ Miles was kept in NY an extra day before doctors removed stitches. Miles will fly back to SLC tonight.

 

[magnifier661]

that second unit of Blake/Rudy/Nicolas/Outlaw/Joel did not look good together last night.

I guess I don't believe we will see big minutes with all 5 on the floor. I suspect for the majority of the minutes, you will have a few tweaks here and there. At least keep a couple starters in with that group during most the game.

 

[PapaG]

I've stopped reading your posts. It's just getting too repetitive and boring and silly. I used to find some of your stuff interesting, so maybe I'll try again in a few days.

I know you probably don't care. But just in case you do, I thought I'd let you know.

Hey, if you don't think the Webster needs more shots than Batum, that Miller takes more shots than Blake, and that Oden clearly deserves more touches this year (and certainly more than Przy got as the starter), that's not my problem.

My point is that going to a more offensive starting unit is going to complicate things. If Miller is going to be second on the team in shots, why not move him to the second unit to improve it offensively?

 

[magnifier661]

Hey, if you don't think the Webster needs more shots than Batum, that Miller takes more shots than Blake, and that Oden clearly deserves more touches this year (and certainly more than Przy got as the starter), that's not my problem.

My point is that going to a more offensive starting unit is going to complicate things. If Miller is going to be second on the team in shots, why not move him to the second unit to improve it offensively?

Just an observation, but don't you think they are trying to work Miller in with the system? I doubt you see Miller ever averaging more shot attempts than Roy, Aldridge or even Oden during the regular season. I believe, and this is only my opinion, is Nate is letting Miller do whatever he likes, to feel him out. I don't think Nate even knows 100% everything Miller can do for them.

 

[PapaG]

Just an observation, but don't you think they are trying to work Miller in with the system? I doubt you see Miller ever averaging more shot attempts than Roy, Aldridge or even Oden during the regular season. I believe, and this is only my opinion, is Nate is letting Miller do whatever he likes, to feel him out. I don't think Nate even knows 100% everything Miller can do for them.

That still doesn't change the complications of adding 3 players (Oden, Webster, Miller) would will (and should) demand more shots than the people they are replacing.

I dunno. I'm beginning to wonder if changing 60% of the starting line-up from a 54-win team is the best idea.

 

[magnifier661]

That still doesn't change the complications of adding 3 players (Oden, Webster, Miller) would will (and should) demand more shots than the people they are replacing.

I dunno. I'm beginning to wonder if changing 60% of the starting line-up from a 54-win team is the best idea.

No you have a good point there. But just remember what happened from 1998-99, then 1999-2000. That worked. But one of the factors could be they were all veterans. Seems that could be much easier to work itself out.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Wait a minute. 37% from 3 is bad? Oh my bad.... LOL

37% is pretty close to the league average, when you look at how crappy Martell's other percentages have been on long twos (high 30s) and his high watermark for overall shooting percentage is 42% (with his first two years sub 40%) then yeah, 37% is pretty bad for a shooting specialist.

Nic's a defensive specialist, so his 37% from distance is OK, and his overall 45% on field goals is pretty good considering his role. Make sense now?

Edit:
If you had to project outward, who would you have been more hopeful about?
http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=0&p1=webstma02&y1=2006&p2=batumni01&y2=2009

 

[magnifier661]

37% is pretty close to the league average, when you look at how crappy Martell's other percentages have been on long twos (high 30s) and his high watermark for overall shooting percentage is 42% (with his first two years sub 40%) then yeah, 37% is pretty bad for a shooting specialist.

Nic's a defensive specialist, so his 37% from distance is OK, and his overall 45% on field goals is pretty good considering his role. Make sense now?

37% from 3 is NOT LEAGUE Average. Are you pulling stats out from your ass?

 

[Nikolokolus]

37% from 3 is NOT LEAGUE Average. Are you pulling stats out from your ass?

36% is roughly league average last time I checked ... mostly because better 3 point shooters take more shots than crappy 3 point shooters.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/league_stats.html

I'm trying to find last year's stats, but you get the picture ...

Ah here it is: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2009.html scroll down to see league averages and you're right I was wrong, league average isn't 36% it's 36.7% ... stick that in your ass.

 

[magnifier661]

36% is roughly league average last time I checked ... mostly because better 3 point shooters take more shots than crappy 3 point shooters.

LMAO! Webster's shooting in his last year from behind the arch was 38.8%. I do admire your reaching though. How has he done so far in "pre-season"? How has Batum done? You can play ESPN Classic with me all day long, but what's going on now is what determines how you rate the player.

You sound like one of those old Varisty Football players that is still holding onto their glory days of yesteryear.

 

[magnifier661]

36% is roughly league average last time I checked ... mostly because better 3 point shooters take more shots than crappy 3 point shooters.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/league_stats.html

I'm trying to find last year's stats, but you get the picture ...

Ah here it is: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2009.html scroll down to see league averages and you're right I was wrong, league average isn't 36% it's 36.7% ... stick that in your ass.

LMAO! According to your brilliant logic, Paul pierce is a worst outside shooter than Batum. .366 from behind the arch and .443 FG throughout his career. Batum has outperformed Pierce! HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Mediocre Man]

LMAO! Webster's shooting in his last year from behind the arch was 38.8%. I do admire your reaching though. How has he done so far in "pre-season"? How has Batum done? You can play ESPN Classic with me all day long, but what's going on now is what determines how you rate the player.

You sound like one of those old Varisty Football players that is still holding onto their glory days of yesteryear.

Nice argument.

Webster has lit it up going 2-8 (.250)
Batum has attempted 1, and missed it (.000)

Andre' "dead eye" Miller is shooting .333
Steve Blake is going to set a record .571




3 games into pre-season means shit.

 

[magnifier661]

Nice argument.

Webster has lit it up going 2-8 (.250)
Batum has attempted 1, and missed it (.000)

Andre' "dead eye" Miller is shooting .333
Steve Blake is going to set a record .571




3 games into pre-season means shit.

Exactly! Which is why tossing silly stats means absolutely nothing. I just made a comparison statistically that Boston would trade us Paul Pierce for Batum with that statistically flawed logic.

 

[hasoos]

Great. With Miller jacking up shot after shot this preseason, and with Webster needing shots to be effective, we're looking at some serious problems on offense. Plus, Miller is at best Blake's equal on perimeter defense, and Webster is a downgrade from Batum.

It could be a very interesting season.

Miller has only taken a lot of shots in one game. The same could be said of Websters offensive production, it has only happened for one game, although it was a good one. But remember before Webster went off for like 24 points in a quarter but failed to show up for several games in a row. So we will see how it works out tonight. Utah was the team he tended to have a lot of confidence against for some reason.

So as I was saying, it is really easy to make general statements based off of one game. The only players who I think have showed up every game and played well, are Aldridge and Oden. They are the only guys on the team that can say they have played pretty well in the time they have played every game so far.

 

[magnifier661]

Nice argument.

Webster has lit it up going 2-8 (.250)
Batum has attempted 1, and missed it (.000)

Andre' "dead eye" Miller is shooting .333
Steve Blake is going to set a record .571




3 games into pre-season means shit.

Oh and psst... I seem to remember Webster shooting 41% for most the year in 07/08. Now anyone with any smarts that year would still tell you Webster didn't do well. The same applies for Batum. He only got 11 minutes a game. Many "pro-batum" posters should argue, it's not the statistical numbers, but what they see on the court.

So when you supporters get back to that type of debate, I will take you all seriously. Until then, you guys can toss those "Stats" out the window.

 

[hasoos]

I've felt this way for about 5 years. Outlaw is all "promise," and very little "delivery." He hurts you as much as he helps you, and his game is still woefully raw. We're a dumb team when he's on the floor, and I hate it.

The guy took 5 years to just become a below average player. You should never have to wait 5 years for a player to become "below average". Guys roll into the league every year and make more impact in their first year than Outlaw has in his best year.