Speaking of no talent U.S. born white centers

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RoyToy said:
It still applies, and it depends on how you rate the players.

Teams could rate Lamb higher but still take Leonard because he's a center.

We're still talking about lottery picks here
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Success rates drop with each lotto spot. So there's a huge difference between #1 and #11. That's very well known, but on common knowledge, but I know someone posted the stats leading up to the last draft.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
And I don't disagree. Same thing, I just expanded it. Figured it might help explain to the dissenter to arrive at a different conclusion, but I was wrong.

Of course, I don't think the dissenter disagrees with the general gist. I just think he rates Lamb and Leonard, and their current talent levels and future potential differently than we do. His opinion would go against popular thinking, obviously (this thread is proof). And his arguments are weak. But this is a message board, and this is subjective topic.
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Problem is, and what I don't think you guys get, is that you seem to rate Leonard higher mostly because he's a center. Thinking that way is silly.

You rate the talent of the players, not their position. The more you factor position into the decision the farther I think you get away from bpa, and it's what led to some of the biggest draft blunders of all-time throughout the draft.

You saw someone like Jordan Hill get drafted over players like Jennings/Holiday/Lawson/etc. Holiday and Lawson went 17 and 18.

Also, big man is synonymous with "high ceiling" players. Teams who value length and athleticism can miss on guys who are sitting there just begging to be selected (Roy for example).

It's all the same.
 
yes roy toy values wings higher than centers, and hates batum

makes perfect sense :crazy:
 
It's like watching Bismack Biyombo go 7 and Klay thompson go 11.

Chowned.
 
3RA1N1AC said:
yes roy toy values wings higher than centers, and hates batum

makes perfect sense :crazy:
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You almost troll me more than Mickzagger

Almost

That said, you're both good at adding no value to threads.
 
care to actually tell me im wrong?

make some sense please, you get called out on your bs and you yell "troll!"

its sad
 
In terms of athleticism, talent, ability, it's not hard to argue in favor of Leonard. You could argue Lamb too, though. Then toss is how rare centers are while guys like Lamb are very common (thus, it's more likely he'll flame out without ever showing anything because he has a ton of competition at his positions) and Leonard's athleticism and agility with his size are a are combo, and then it's not even worth arguing the point.

Then, factor in drafting BPA is very subjective and not alway the best strategy, and it's just laughable that you're arguing in favor of Lamb.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
In terms of athleticism, talent, ability, it's not hard to argue in favor of Leonard. You could argue Lamb too, though. Then toss is how rare centers are while guys like Lamb are very common (thus, it's more likely he'll flame out without ever showing anything because he has a ton of competition at his positions) and Leonard's athleticism and agility with his size are a are combo, and then it's not even worth arguing the point.

Then, factor in drafting BPA is very subjective and not alway the best strategy, and it's just laughable that you're arguing in favor of Lamb.
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Leonard isn't that rare of a player. There are guys like him scattered all across the league. Just stop with that.

And it's nice you have Lamb flaming out at the age of 20 before he is even given playing time. I think that is what's laughable here.
 
RoyToy said:
Problem is, and what I don't think you guys get, is that you seem to rate Leonard higher mostly because he's a center. Thinking that way is silly.

You rate the talent of the players, not their position. The more you factor position into the decision the farther I think you get away from bpa, and it's what led to some of the biggest draft blunders of all-time throughout the draft.

You saw someone like Jordan Hill get drafted over players like Jennings/Holiday/Lawson/etc. Holiday and Lawson went 17 and 18.

Also, big man is synonymous with "high ceiling" players. Teams who value length and athleticism can miss on guys who are sitting there just begging to be selected (Roy for example).

It's all the same.
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No, you see someone like Hill get picked higher because he was an 18/11 guy in college. There were plenty of questions about Jrue coming out, after one season of 9/4/4, and plenty of questions about Lawson because he was a midget.
It's always easy with hindsight to say oh, how did so and so go so low. But then when you select someone like Jrue in the lottery, and he doesn't pan out, after one season of not even running the point in college, when there were definite questions, you have someone like Bayless, and people say oh, how did you pass on so and so. It works both ways, Hill over Lawson looks bad. So does Augustin over Brook Lopez. Hindsight. Something we have to judge.
 
RoyToy said:
Leonard isn't that rare of a player. There are guys like him scattered all across the league. Just stop with that.

And it's nice you have Lamb flaming out at the age of 20 before he is even given playing time. I think that is what's laughable here.
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I don't know many actual athletic 7 footers that can bang down low in the NBA. How many are there? Please provide a list.

And don't twist my words. When people do that, it usually indicates someone with their back to the wall, being defensive and changing the point of the argument. I said earlier I like Lamb, but he scares me. I said it's more likely he flames out than Leonard. More likely. More likely. More likely. I can't believe you disagree that point. I've seen far more wings flame out than 7 footers. Capable 7 footers alway have a home in the NBA. 7 footers that can breathe and walk at the same time have a very easy time at least getting onto NBA rosters.
 
Everyone talks about how the center position is dead, but that simply isn't true. It's just dead compared to the glory days.

You can run down the list of good centers in the NBA

Chandler
Jordan
Cousins
Lopez
Howard
Pekovic
Hibbert
Monroe
Nene
Noah
Gasol
Jefferson
Gortat

Those are just some of the bigger names.

Then you have the younger guys/not quite big names Drummond/Vucevic/McGee/Asik

They are out there, and let's be honest, Leonard isn't exactly standing out
 
I didn't even list the injured bums like Byunm and Bogut (who because of position was taken over Chris Paul and Deron Williams)
 
Now tell me how many if them are a legit 7 feet.

Then compile a list of wings. There are FAR more wings in the league than legit centers. That's an indisputable fact. And then there's an even bigger lost that simply don't make it and they flame out because they're a dime a dozen. Any old scout, NBA GM, coach, etc would tell you that.

But that's besides the point for me. I feel Leonard has more potential to be an impact player, an above-average player at his position than Lamb does. Then factor is the rest, and of course I take Leonard.

It's very apparent you value talent differently than many here. And that's cool. It's a injector matter. But I'm not rating Leonard ahead of Lamb just because Leonard's a center. I already rate him higher. The fact that Leonard is a center just gives him the bigger nod.
 
Does it really matter if you're 6-10, 6-11 or 7-0? Uh, no.

And that's fine. You rate Leonard higher, I rate Lamb higher. Lamb was my 2nd favorite player in the draft after Lillard, and I think his ceiling is a Kevin Martin type. The talent is there.

I think Leonard will settle in nicely, but I don't think he'll be all that awesome.
 
RoyToy said:
Does it really matter if you're 6-10, 6-11 or 7-0? Uh, no.

And that's fine. You rate Leonard higher, I rate Lamb higher. Lamb was my 2nd favorite player in the draft after Lillard, and I think his ceiling is a Kevin Martin type. The talent is there.

I think Leonard will settle in nicely, but I don't think he'll be all that awesome.
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Yes... It does.
 
RoyToy said:
Does it really matter if you're 6-10, 6-11 or 7-0? Uh, no.

And that's fine. You rate Leonard higher, I rate Lamb higher. Lamb was my 2nd favorite player in tbhe draft after Lillard, and I think his ceiling is a Kevin Martin type. The talent is there.

I think Leonard will settle in nicely, but I don't think he'll be all that awesome.
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6-10, 6-11, 7-0 does matter. Weren't you talking about the length of Lamb earlier? The taller you are, the more length you likely have.

My opinion is pretty much reverse of yours. I think in a couple of years, Leonard will be a very solid center. Lamb has solid potential, but there's just so much with him that makes me believe he'll never reach his potential.

I guess the Martin comparison doesn't excite me because I've never been a huge fan. He's pretty much just a scorer and that's it. His scoring numbers are solid. He doesn't strike me as someone that makes his mates better, but I don't think he makes them worse. He's never carried a good team, and I suspect coaches haven't been super-impressed, because despite his scoring ability, he's never been to the ASG. This is the first season I've liked his performance and his role. He's not going to carry a team (at least not a good team), but he's a solid piece and big contributor on a team like OKC.
 
Dwight Howard has been the best center in the NBA for years now and he's not a true 7 footer. Just stop it. Besides, the majority of the players I listed are listed at at least 6-11 I believe.
 
RoyToy said:
Dwight Howard has been the best center in the NBA for years now and he's not a true 7 footer. Just stop it. Besides, the majority of the players I listed are listed at at least 6-11 I believe.
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Most aren't I don't believe if you go by pre-draft measurements. But you ignored my question: it really does matter. Like I said, wasn't that one of your pro-Lamb arguments? His length?

D-Ho has long been overrated IMO. And the last season or two has supported this.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Most aren't I don't believe if you go by pre-draft measurements. But you ignored my question: it really does matter. Like I said, wasn't that one of your pro-Lamb arguments? His length?
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That "discussion" with brainiac had to do with him saying Lamb was taller than the players he was going against, when what he was really trying to say was length. I pointed it out to him and he's been trolling me since.

That's what that was.
 
RoyToy said:
That "discussion" with brainiac had to do with him saying Lamb was taller than the players he was going against, when what he was really trying to say was length. I pointed it out to him and he's been trolling me since.

That's what that was.
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:lol:

please

care to elaborate why you like wings better than centers, yet think batum sucks? im actually curious as to your reasons, who knows, maybe you have something poignant to say

although i doubt it
 
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Sometimes I don't speak too bright
But yet I know what I'm talking about
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
 
As for Lamb, I know it's only the D League, and guys like Babbitt put up good numbers there, but his last three games have been ridiculous

33/8/3
30/9/8
30/8/2

Shooting
66% from the field
59% from 3pt
93% from FT

Consistent PT in the NBA, and this kid has a chance to be a very good player
 
Mediocre Man said:
As for Lamb, I know it's only the D League, and guys like Babbitt put up good numbers there, but his last three games have been ridiculous

33/8/3
30/9/8
30/8/2

Shooting
66% from the field
59% from 3pt
93% from FT

Consistent PT in the NBA, and this kid has a chance to be a very good player
Click to expand...

Wtf?! A lotto pick in the d league? What's wrong with him?
 
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