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Further said:
You want the opposite, for us to overlook statements because Trump also said something to the contrary. Of course he will try to course correct when he realizes he said something fucked, or when he stays on script he'll be coherent till he ad libs and let's some truth shine through.

If I say barfo is a patriot over and over and then in a momentary laps say barfo is a commie, that's actually something important to note when discussing how I view barfo.

What Trump said? A) the Holt response

and next is reported and not disputed but also not verified -> B) from NYT :
WASHINGTON — President Trump told Russian officials in the Oval Office this month that firing the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, had relieved “great pressure” on him, according to a document summarizing the meeting.

“I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job,” Mr. Trump said, according to the document, which was read to The New York Times by an American official. “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”
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I want honesty and truthfulness.

Virtually all claims should be faced with skepticism by the press.

Clinton used a private email server. Not Clinton broke the law. Day 1, that is. When the truth comes out, report it. It's not gotcha and journalism.

Again, we don't know the context of what was being said. People in the room called it a negotiation tactic. You don't know what he meant by "pressure," either.

The Holt response, directly from the man, on camera, with context.

I just proved to you the NYT is being deceitful by cherry picking the one sentence out of context. Anyone who saw the Holt interview knows what he said. If you rely on NYT or CNN, etc., you know what they want you to believe.
 
barfo said:
Yes, that is one thing that Trump said. He also said a bunch of things that contradict that. Seems like you are indeed demonstrating how cherry picking works.

Who are you going to believe, Lyin' Donald, or Lyin' Trump?

barfo
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No he hasn't, but you wouldn't believe the truth if it bit you.
 
The similarity to Watergate is laughable.

The similarity to McCarthyism is only lost on the uneducated.

"I have proof right here in my briefcase that the government is infested by Russian agents." Only instead of the press saying, "have you no shame?" they're being McCarthy.
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
Sounds nothing like the definition of Treason unless you can prove Trump wanted to win as a way to HURT America. There has never been one instance of anyone saying Trump didn't think he was the greatest person on Earth.
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I guess I was using the broader "Merriam Webster" definition "the action of betraying someone or something." in this particular case; if those allegations are true, Trump or his team would have betrayed the integrity of the electoral process, which is sort of the bedrock of our republican system of government.

I'll grant, that under the provisions of Article Three, the bar is much higher and the definition is much narrower for the act of "treason." I'm no lawyer, but I'm guessing the charges might be closer to: Conspiracy to Commit Election Fraud and/or Espionage. Either way, if this actually happened (which remains to be seen) then that's pretty goddamned alarming. If it was Hillary's campaign in the cross-hairs, people on the right would be howling for her to be strung up, and they'd be right to be mad as hell.
 
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Nikolokolus said:
I guess I was using the broader "Merriam Webster" definition "the action of betraying someone or something." in this particular case; if those allegations are true, Trump or his team would have betrayed the integrity of the electoral process, which is sort of the bedrock of our republican system of government.

I'll grant, that under the provisions of Article Three, the bar is much higher and the definition is much narrower for the act of "treason." I'm no lawyer, but I'm guessing the charges might be closer: Conspiracy to Commit Election Fraud and/or Espionage. Either way, if this actually happened (which remains to be seen) then that's pretty goddamned alarming. If it was Hillary's campaign in the cross-hairs, people on the right would be howling for her to be strung up, and they'd be right to be mad as hell.
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But... but... it's not right for you to say any of that because you don't have any proof.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I guess I was using the broader "Merriam Webster" definition "the action of betraying someone or something." in this particular case; if those allegations are true, Trump or his team would have betrayed the integrity of the electoral process, which is sort of the bedrock of our republican system of government.

I'll grant, that under the provisions of Article Three, the bar is much higher and the definition is much narrower for the act of "treason." I'm no lawyer, but I'm guessing the charges might be closer to: Conspiracy to Commit Election Fraud and/or Espionage. Either way, if this actually happened (which remains to be seen) then that's pretty goddamned alarming. If it was Hillary's campaign in the cross-hairs, people on the right would be howling for her to be strung up, and they'd be right to be mad as hell.
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The House can pretty much charge the president with whatever it deems to be high crimes and misdemeanors. Proving it in a senate trial is required to actually remove the president.

If there is this mythical smoking gun that ties the president to the Russian hacking, I think he's toast. Directing the WikiLeaks document releases? Not so much. But I think he stands zero chance of reelection, or even getting the Republican nomination.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Sometimes I get the feeling that your life is just one giant flashback.

Speaking of flashbacks you going to the Oregon Country Fair?
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I probably won't this year but if you are going stop by and have a beer....I can hear the bass and drums from the main stage on my deck.. Thursday or Friday are the best days to go
 
barfo said:
"this bullshit of losing elections and disrupting the government of the winner".
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True.
I do not recall any disrupting to complain about.
When was Obama investigated without reason?
Who suggested impeachment without a crime?
 
MarAzul said:
When was Obama investigated without reason?
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Donald Trump offered a million bucks for his birth certificate...Obama was stonewalled from day one his first term....how many GOP reps were screaming for his proof of natural birth.....you think that's any different? I don't.....if Obama conducted himself like Trump has...you'd freak out...admit it
 
riverman said:
Donald Trump offered a million bucks for his birth certificate...Obama was stonewalled from day one his first term....how many GOP reps were screaming for his proof of natural birth.....you think that's any different? I don't.....if Obama conducted himself like Trump has...you'd freak out...admit it
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Stonewalled?

Sure, some republicans gave Obama a mild hassle over the birth certificate thing. If Obama simply released it right away, the whole thing would have gone away. Instead, he seemed to enjoy the whole thing and delayed releasing the birth certificate.

I would love to see Trump release his birth certificate. Then they're all even.
 
riverman said:
those suggesting it apparently don't think he's as squeaky clean as you do....
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I'll call for impeachment but only if there's some actual evidence of a high crime or misdemeanor. We're not even close to that. Looks to me like those demanding it now are not using Reason.

If you're honestly looking for a fair investigation of the Russian hacking and where it ultimately leads, we need to investigate this:

 
riverman said:
Obama was stonewalled from day one his first term
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>>> Stonewalled? What transgression against the Constitution is this?

riverman said:
proof of natural birth.....you think that's any different?
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>>> Natural Born is the requirement, not the place of birth.
Chester Arthur,
Charles Hughes
Barry Goldwater
George Romney
John McCain
Ted Cruz

All were investigated to insure Natural Born Status, all Republicans. Obama escaped this officially, even though many private citizens question it, including Trump and myself. I believe his eventual release of his birth certificate proved his place of birth was Hawaii and that he was a Kenyan, by right of decent as his father is listed as a Kenyan.
Therefore, not a Natural Born Citizen. But the country let it slide, no out cry or clamor for impeachment.

riverman said:
.if Obama conducted himself like Trump has...you'd freak out...admit it
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>>> Can not think of a law Trump has failed to enforce. Can not think of a violation of the Constitution. Can not think of failure as Commander in Chief where he let men die while he went on a fund raiser.

riverman said:
Donald Trump offered a million bucks for his birth certificate
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>>> Ha! And Obama finally came through with the document, as all others before him have done. Funny part is, it proved him not to be a Natural Born citizen.
 
Denny Crane said:
I would love to see Trump release his birth certificate.
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trump-nyc-birth-certificate.jpg
 
Trumps birth certificate has never been an issue....his taxes however......Obama 2 Trump 1....no longer even
 
Denny Crane said:
I'll call for impeachment but only if there's some actual evidence of a high crime or misdemeanor
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So would I..I think most people feel the same. See the problem with Trump is that he's made himself unbelievable with his own words and actions..hence...he's going to be under a microscope constantly...he lost a lot of confidence and trust from a lot of demographics....I wish folks would stop thinking it's all about elephants and donkeys and see that concerns are much more widespread. I wish I didn't feel apprehensive about him but he's like a cold that won't go away. My hope would be him resigning rather than impeachment but that's not going to happen unless he is guilty of a crime.
 
riverman said:
So would I..I think most people feel the same. See the problem with Trump is that he's made himself unbelievable with his own words and actions..hence...he's going to be under a microscope constantly...he lost a lot of confidence and trust from a lot of demographics....I wish folks would stop thinking it's all about elephants and donkeys and see that concerns are much more widespread. I wish I didn't feel apprehensive about him but he's like a cold that won't go away. My hope would be him resigning rather than impeachment but that's not going to happen unless he is guilty of a crime.
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The Russia conspiracy thing is unbelievable, and those who pretend there is one have lost all credibility.
 
Denny Crane said:
The Russia conspiracy thing is unbelievable, and those who pretend there is one have lost all credibility.
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What the Russian questions tells me is that Trump is so Machiavellian that he doesn't have a grasp over what is going on around him...he changes positions to suit the polls and seems to be ill equipped to deal with anything that affects his popularity...what I'm seeing from the cheap seats is a guy who will throw his teammates under the bus if it detracts from his popularity. I'd say he's painted himself in a corner and is quickly running out of friends
 
MarAzul said:
Can not think of a law Trump has failed to enforce
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His airport ban of Muslims didn't really go over so well eh? Nor his list of dangerous countries that don't have Trump hotels in them
 
riverman said:
My hope would be him resigning
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Now there you go! The exact difference in approach between you along with most Democrats, and myself.

You want him resign before he has begun as your duly elected President. Certainly before he has done you any harm.
I resigned myself to Obama in the beginning I did not vote for him, nor McCain as I did not see either fit to be President. I did not and still do not believe Obama is a Natural Born Citizen and I believe he showed us exactly why we have the requirement by his actions while President.

But when his term began, I thought, well ok he could do much good, and I hoped he would. Fail, Fail, Fail, every test. Yes I complained much, he harmed me, my wife, people I know, and he failed miserably at enforcing the law, and most egregious, he wrote his own laws beyond any Constitutional authority. He rivals the worst Presidents in history for the honor to the title.
 
riverman said:
What the Russian questions tells me is that Trump is so Machiavellian that he doesn't have a grasp over what is going on around him...he changes positions to suit the polls and seems to be ill equipped to deal with anything that affects his popularity...what I'm seeing from the cheap seats is a guy who will throw his teammates under the bus if it detracts from his popularity. I'd say he's painted himself in a corner and is quickly running out of friends
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You have quite an imagination.
 
riverman said:
His airport ban of Muslims didn't really go over so well eh? Nor his list of dangerous countries that don't have Trump hotels in them
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Yet he received a royal welcome by Muslim leaders of 50+ countries.
 
MarAzul said:
You want him resign before he has begun as your duly elected President
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No....he began being president already....and yes...I would like him to resign ....sooner the better for the country and the world from my perspective. For the thousandth time ........he hasn't earned my trust and actually he could have. I've also stated that this will never happen...he's too narcisistic
 
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