Starting Oden is a joke

[The Sebastian Express]

So that's it? It's the surgery? We gave him a whole year to recover. He did pilates. Did rehab. Played a preseason. Played November, December, and January. And still only grabs 4 rebounds against the Mavs? Zach Randolph played better than that this after his MF surgery.

Zach also had played in the NBA before and never relied on his athleticism really.

Zach also said during that whole year back that he still had trouble trusting his knee.

Zach also had the offense ran through him on a 21-61 team, wasn't it?

 

[KingSpeed]

Well, it just sucks that he needed the MF surgery to begin with. When we got the #1 pick, that's not what we were hoping for. I suppose I'm just supposed to wait two years. But in the meantime, I still watch every game so it gets frustrating. I can't understand going into a shooting slump. Or turning the ball over. Those are rookie problems. But to not rebound?? Not play defense?

 

[The Sebastian Express]

2005–06 Portland 74 71 34.4 .436 .291 .714 8.0 1.9 .8 .2 18.0

Those are Zach's stats the year he came back from microfracture. 44% shooting and only eight rebounds (in 34 minutes on a 21-61 team) yet we consider that a successful year for a man who had previously played in the NBA (and thus wasn't a rookie adjusting as well) and was having the offense ran through him.

 

[KingSpeed]

2005–06 Portland 74 71 34.4 .436 .291 .714 8.0 1.9 .8 .2 18.0

Those are Zach's stats the year he came back from microfracture. 44% shooting and only eight rebounds (in 34 minutes on a 21-61 team) yet we consider that a successful year for a man who had previously played in the NBA (and thus wasn't a rookie adjusting as well) and was having the offense ran through him.

Good point.

 

[free_lafrentz]

How has he shown growth?

When he came back from his foot injury, he got 3 double doubles in his first 5 games including a 22/10 game. He also had 14 blocks over those 5 games.

In his last 5 games, he has only 1 double double and only 5 blocks.

He's lost confidence and given up on shotblocking. And he is still having games where he doesn't rebound. 4 rebounds for a starting center is horrible, especially one of his height and strength. People said he'd get better as the season went on. But he really hasn't.

its amazing how little patience people have.

Wait a year or two before you pass judgement on the big fella, holy crap...

 

[KingSpeed]

its amazing how little patience people have.

Wait a year or two before you pass judgement on the big fella, holy crap...

That seems to be the consencus. Just wait for a couple years. I'll still be watching Blazers games in two years so okay.

 

[free_lafrentz]

That seems to be the consencus. Just wait for a couple years. I'll still be watching Blazers games in two years so okay.

I have no problem with fans, nba watchers considering Oden a bust, but the problem is everyone is jumping the gun.

the Kid is 21. He has a decade and a half or so of potential NBA ball infront of him. Don't pass judgment on a guy until he has a few years under his belt. Even then, with Oden, he will be 23 or 24 with still another solid decade of hoops to go (arguably). But, yes, i would say a fair timeframe for his success would be by the end of his rookie contract.

People just expect him to be some sort of wonderkid. Unfortunately Greg's NBA career doesnt appear to be taking that path.

Only time will tell. But give him time.

 

[free_lafrentz]

That seems to be the consencus. Just wait for a couple years. I'll still be watching Blazers games in two years so okay.

And i would also argue that Blazer fans have enjoyed alot of success over the years and are spoiled with a franchise that has been a rather consistent playoff contender.

Even with our rebuilding process we had over the last few seasons was pretty short, considering most franchises are stuck in rebuild mode for half a decade or more it seems (Chicago, Memphis, etc).

Portland rebuilt in 2-3 years leading many to expect instant results from Greg. Demanding he produce and be some sort of almighty force.

Greg will probably need 2-3 years to be at his best, if not more. Sadly, I don't know if people have that much patience.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Uh...we're all saying "wait 2-3 years" and "it's the MF"...

Greg is leading all rookies not named Marresse Speights in PER. He is leading in FG%. As the previous poster put it (better than I can), he's getting over half of his shots without being assisted (that means that the number-y stat-things prove that he's not being passed the ball in a position to score).

He's not getting rebounds or playing defense? That rebound rate number is a pretty solid indicator, even if you don't quite understand it. Top 10 (at last check) in the entire league. Here's another one: 20% more blocks per game than either LMA or Przy. (1.1 to 0.9)

How about on offense? Here're the totals for games where Greg has 7 or more shot attempts:
11/15 @Min W 88-83 24min 4-8 8reb 13pt
11/18 @GsW L 111-106 30min 8-12 10reb 22pt
11/19 Chi W 116-74 17min 3-7 .10reb 11pt
12/7 @Tor W 98-97 28min 3-10 10reb 10pt
12/12 Lac L 120-112 42min 6-10 15reb 15pt
12/27 Tor W 102-89 28min 5-7 10reb 16pt
12/30 Bos W 91-86 36min 5-9 11reb 13pt
1/4 @LAL L 100-86 35min 3-7 4reb 10pt
1/10 Gsw W 113-100 26min 4-8 8reb 10pt
1/12 @Chi W 109-95 26min 5-7 13reb 17pt
1/17 @Cha L 102-97 18min 3-7 3reb 8pt
1/19 Mil W 102-85 35min 9-14 15reb 24pt
1/24 Was W 100-87 39min 6-10 14reb 18pt
1/26 @Lac W 113-88 26min 7-7 6reb 16pt
1/28 Cha W 88-74 30min 4-9 14reb 14pt

15 games with 7 shots or more. 11-4 in those games (losses to L*kers, bogus Clipper loss, etc). 10 double-doubles, averaging 14pts and 10 reb.

Perhaps thtes

 

[MickZagger]

We lose a 5 game winning streak to a playoff bound team at their place and the sky is falling... The fickleness cracks me up.

 

[blue32]

Yeah, I go to bed kinda annoyed about the lack of effort on the defensive end, expecting to wake up to some threads about the wing/guard defense, and am bombarded with threads about Oden??

Come on really? It wasn't Oden's fault last night; it was the guards (and Travis) not staying in front of their men.

Numerous times Kidd blew by Sergio and often times Travis lost his guy or let Josh Howard go to the rim.

Our TEAM defense is fucked. I'll say what I've always said this year, we need a better damn coach, OR some defensive help in terms of coaching or player(s). But I've said that from the beginning of this year...

BTW: Greg should have played more minutes, and the guards need to give him more touches, or McMillan does..

 

[Tortimer]

I get so fucking tired of all this shit about Oden. Just a few games ago mostly the same people were going crazy about how good Oden is playing. I think Oden should get as many minutes as he can until he fouls out. I also think our team just doesn't get Oden the ball after he works hard to get into position. It also depends on the match up. I doubt to many true centers can guard Dirk if he is playing center. If I was Oden I would be depressed like hell because of how the team uses him and never even try's to get the ball to him even when he shows that he can dominate the opposing center. Part of this is the coach's fault and part is just the players. The only thing I have to sort of complain about Oden is that he at least not in public which is good doesn't demand the ball and start telling the coach and players when he works hard to get in position get me the fucking ball!!!!!!!! He also gets those cheap fouls that are sometimes questionable and really can't afford to go after every block. IF WE ARE EVER GOING TO BE A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM ODEN NEEDS TO DEVELOP AND PLAY AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AND SENDING HIM TO THE D LEAGUE WON'T HELP.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[alex42083]

We lose a 5 game winning streak to a playoff bound team at their place and the sky is falling... The fickleness cracks me up.

Agreed. +1. Repped. Whatever you want to call it.

 

[mook]

Last night when the Blazers fed him in the post it worked. He embarrassed Dampier by muscling him down (how many guys can do that?) and scoring on a chippy. After that he got Damp so focused on not getting humiliated again it opened up driving lanes for Roy. Then we just inexplicably stopped going to Oden.

If I had the chance, I'd ask McMillan two questions:

1. Why do we run our offense through Aldridge instead of Oden? Oden is a better and more willing passer, he gets guys in foul trouble, and when fed on the offensive end he becomes much more aggressive on defense. Aldridge's 15 foot game doesn't really create for others, and it can easily come off of Oden in the post. I swear, last night I think the Mavs looked visibly relieved that we ignored Oden so much. And we couldn't get him the ball when he was covered by Nowitzki or Brandon Bass? Please.

2. What is the disadvantage in letting Oden play through fouls? So what if he fouls out by the end of the third quarter a few times. I think there'd be a big psychological boost for Oden if he didn't have to worry about constantly getting yanked out for a ticky-tack foul. Besides, it forces refs to have to call that 6th foul, something they're less inclined to do on a big ticket draw like Oden.

 

[PapaG]

One night doesn't mean a lot... the stock market went up pretty consistently for decades without going up every single day. Or every single week. Or even every single month.

Oden did not have a good game tonight, but I don't think that it is very significant. The flashes of brilliance he's displayed are much more indicative than the games tonight where he only gets six shots.

Finally: I didn't see Oden mope tonight. Or fail to hustle. Blaming his poor game on some sort of faulty mental approach is wrongheaded, IMO.

Ed O.

Oden's last 3 games, all against teams with mediocre centers (since Chandler was out).

Utah - 5 pts, 1 reb, 1 block, 2 steals, 5 fouls in 11 minutes. Also had 2 FT attempts
NO - 6 pts, 6 reb, 4 fouls in 18 minutes, 0 FT attempts
Dallas - 6 pts, 4 reb, 2 fouls in 21 minutes, 0 FT attempts

 

[hasoos]

If Shaq had the guards not throw him the ball like they are not throwing it to Oden when he is open, he would have simply beat their ass by now.

 

[blue32]

^^ Agreed.
he really needs to yell at em.

 

[illmatic99]

^^ Agreed.
he really needs to yell at em.

Maybe that's one thing Oden should learn from Bynum.

[video=youtube;6mOzQnwhqFE]

 

[PapaG]

If Shaq had the guards not throw him the ball like they are not throwing it to Oden when he is open, he would have simply beat their ass by now.

That's a great point. Perhaps Greg isn't an "Alpha Dog" by nature?

 

[Shooter]

Oden's last 3 games, all against teams with mediocre centers (since Chandler was out).

Utah - 5 pts, 1 reb, 1 block, 2 steals, 5 fouls in 11 minutes. Also had 2 FT attempts
NO - 6 pts, 6 reb, 4 fouls in 18 minutes, 0 FT attempts
Dallas - 6 pts, 4 reb, 2 fouls in 21 minutes, 0 FT attempts

Thanks for pointing this out. I hadn't gone back to check, but I knew Oden was struggling in his last few games. Rep points to you.

 

[bobf]

I noticed the -14 and the +2 almost immediately.

For the season, prior to yesterday's game...<table width = 500><tr><td>PlayerName</td><td>+/- Per 48</td><td>+/- Total</td><td>Games 48</td></tr>
<tr><td>Aldridge, LaMarcus</td><td>+7.3</td><td>+258</td><td>35.2</td></tr><tr><td>Roy, Brandon</td><td>+6.3</td><td>+203</td><td>32.4</td></tr><tr><td>Batum, Nicolas</td><td>+5.8</td><td>+99</td><td>17.2</td></tr><tr><td>Blake, Steve</td><td>+5.4</td><td>+131</td><td>24.3</td></tr>
<tr><td>Bayless, Jerryd</td><td>+4.7</td><td>+36</td><td>7.6</td></tr><tr><td>Oden, Greg</td><td>+4.5</td><td>+86</td><td>19.1</td></tr><tr><td>Fernandez, Rudy</td><td>+4.3</td><td>+105</td><td>24.6</td></tr><tr><td>Przybilla, Joel</td><td>+4.0</td><td>+85</td><td>21.4</td></tr><tr><td>Rodriguez, Sergio</td><td>+1.9</td><td>+30</td><td>15.4</td></tr><tr><td>Outlaw, Travis</td><td>+1.5</td><td>+38</td><td>25.0</td></tr><tr><td>Frye, Channing</td><td>-3.8</td><td>-31</td><td>8.2</td></tr></table>

 

[ABM]

Time For Oden To Sit

I don't think he's starter material.............right now.

Too inconsistent; his personality/psyche hasn't matured at the rate I had hoped. Appears to be in "sulk mode" again. Oh, and the fact that, invariably, Greg leaves the game...early....with two fouls and the Blazers behind.

Not to mention, from the couple of recent games I've watched, Bayless' drive and force/dish style of play really seems to compliment Greg's game very nicely. I could see good things happening with that tandem.


I believe starting Joel will shore-up the above issues....not to mention that it will take a LOT of pressure off Greg, helping him to become more comfortable out there, while also playing with a bit more aggression and without the fear of whistles.

 

[ucatchtrout]

Re: Time For Oden To Sit

NO.

Time to get him the freakin ball.

Over and over again.

 

[tlongII]

Re: Time For Oden To Sit

He needs to stay in the starting lineup. No question about it.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Re: Time For Oden To Sit

He's developing and very up and down.

I take that back, he's not really developing anything other than gaining experience.

Nate uses him like a 7'0" paper weight in our system. How are we supposed to develop Greg when he doesn't get the ball? He needs twice as many touches as he's getting. If he doesn't shoot a high percantage, so what! at least he's developing his offense.

 

[free_lafrentz]

Re: Time For Oden To Sit

you, sir, need to have your brain checked. Oden needs to start. It's the only way he will ever develop.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Re: Time For Oden To Sit

If you think taking Greg out of the starting lineup (losing his job essentially) will take pressure off of him that's pretty silly to be honest. All it will do is make a lot of national writers call him a bust and he'll put even more pressure on himself.

The team gets behind because they concede mismatches to the other team and start out generally shooting jump-shots instead of establishing the low post. That isn't Greg's fault, that is a philosophy issue that is implemented by the coach.

Just look in either the thread that Shooter or Kingspeed started, about five or six pages into each one. A poster has some amazing statistics about how Greg is efficient on the offensive end but gets so little help from his teammates. It is a damn shame that a guy who has the ability to draw fouls the way he does and who shoots a high percentage gets so few touches and plays ran for him in the game. The fact that we miss him when he is wide open under the basket is criminal and mind-boggling.

 

[ucatchtrout]

Re: Time For Oden To Sit

If you think taking Greg out of the starting lineup (losing his job essentially) will take pressure off of him that's pretty silly to be honest. All it will do is make a lot of national writers call him a bust and he'll put even more pressure on himself.

The team gets behind because they concede mismatches to the other team and start out generally shooting jump-shots instead of establishing the low post. That isn't Greg's fault, that is a philosophy issue that is implemented by the coach.

Just look in either the thread that Shooter or Kingspeed started, about five or six pages into each one. A poster has some amazing statistics about how Greg is efficient on the offensive end but gets so little help from his teammates. It is a damn shame that a guy who has the ability to draw fouls the way he does and who shoots a high percentage gets so few touches and plays ran for him in the game. The fact that we miss him when he is wide open under the basket is criminal and mind-boggling.

EXACTLY....

The only reason Bayless is starting to look good is because he actually HAS the ball in his hands. Oden has to wait for a pass.

 

[ABM]

Re: Time For Oden To Sit

If you think taking Greg out of the starting lineup (losing his job essentially) will take pressure off of him that's pretty silly to be honest. All it will do is make a lot of national writers call him a bust and he'll put even more pressure on himself....

Pressure? This ain't nuthin. Just wait until the playoffs start and the REAL national attention begins.

I think bringing him off the bench now...then letting the team adjust to Joel starting and Greg coming off the bench.....will be ample time heading into the playoffs.

It will be best for all for "this" season.

 

[rocketeer]

Re: Time For Oden To Sit

are all these threads that say the exact same thing really necessary?