Starting Vonleh?

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HolyBackboard said:
I would be shocked if they were showcasing Vonleh. They are doing the right thing by giving the young guy minutes. This season is not about wins and losses; it's about player development.

He really just needs more playing time to improve, because this is essentially his rookie year. You can tell he picks up quite a bit of silly fouls, but that is the case with most young players. But what I love are the flashes of potential he shows. The knock-down triple, followed by the fast break lob was the highlight of the game.
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i know it's OT but i like your pod :popcorn:
 
riverman said:
What we have now over most NBA teams is court time..young talented players will realize they'll see the court in Portland for a couple of years. That's the selling point now along with actually being able to like you teammates and coach.
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I think another selling point the Blazers might have going into next year ... in addition to a lot of money ... is that Dame and CJ are showing more and more they will give up the ball and they can create scoring opportunities for other players because they are threats to shoot from very deep, drive and distribute. I think having Batum here the last few years and our reliance on him as an entry passer ... something he was great at, take nothing away from him ... actually held back Lillard's development in that part of the game. Being on this team with little pressure has really helped Dame mature in ways he might not have been able to do whenever any miscue could cost you a seeding slot in the playoffs.

Dame and CJ are far from finished products as passers, but they've done some things in recent games that give me a lot of optimism for how their skillsets are evolving. And that could get the attention of a young big with a smart agent and some forward thinking.
 
honestly, i think we need that energy/hustle/muscle in the starting lineup. as far as spacing, i think he has more ability to do that than myers has ability to be able to bang and be a force of anything on the inside.

I get the point about zero ego, but people notice things and eventually he'll get the feeling (if he keeps playing like he is) that he should be a starter, when what? adios ed? fuckin hope not....

on the flip side, we've started myers and vonleh and had a mix of ugh and quick benching and lotsa minutes ending up with Ed, at what point does he get the chance? or are we piling all the chips on a non re-signed myers and a raw 20yr old PF at this point?

All im saying, is reward the performers - there is ZERO wrong with competition for spots.... there is LOTS wrong with not getting the fruits of the labor.
 
Bump.

Starting but still playing maybe 10 mpg.

Extremely raw but has shown flashes.

However I think he's showing flaws...

He is very slow laterally. I know he bulked up a lot since his days at Indiana and that's likely the problem. He's not Kendrick Perkins-slow (laterally) but he's not too far off.
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
Bump.

Starting but still playing maybe 10 mpg.

Extremely raw but has shown flashes.

However I think he's showing flaws...

He is very slow laterally. I know he bulked up a lot since his days at Indiana and that's likely the problem. He's not Kendrick Perkins-slow (laterally) but he's not too far off.
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I haven't even noticed any flashes. He's one of the least productive players in the league right now. For a player that does so little, it might look like a flash everytime they make a basket. But he's shooting 44% from 2pt range, 7 points per 36 minutes, a paltry 8 rebounds with a very low rebounding %.

He looks really slow and lumbering, and plays with the fire and energy of Nic Batum.
 
Sinobas said:
I haven't even noticed any flashes. He's one of the least productive players in the league right now. For a player that does so little, it might look like a flash everytime they make a basket. But he's shooting 44% from 2pt range, 7 points per 36 minutes, a paltry 8 rebounds with a very low rebounding %.

He looks really slow and lumbering, and plays with the fire and energy of Nic Batum.
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He's trash plain and simple. He has no confidence and plays with absolutely no passion. He doesn't even look like he wants to impress himself let alone prove to others he will be a future star one day.

People love to say "oh he's so young" look at Julius Randall their nearly the same age AND Randall even missed the whole season last year yet hes averaging 13-10 over the last 10 games,
if we count randle as a rookie and let's be honest he pretty much is hes:

t4th in ppg
9th in fg%
t1st in rpg
7th in apg
6th in spg
7th in bpg

randle is in the top 10 in every major stat for rookies.

Vonleh sucks
 
Vonleh is in school right now and I think it's great Stotts has him thrown in the fire against veteran PFs. I love that our bench can come in and build a lead and even outscore the starting unit.
 
Tunchi said:
He's trash plain and simple. He has no confidence and plays with absolutely no passion. He doesn't even look like he wants to impress himself let alone prove to others he will be a future star one day.

People love to say "oh he's so young" look at Julius Randall their nearly the same age AND Randall even missed the whole season last year yet hes averaging 13-10 over the last 10 games,
if we count randle as a rookie and let's be honest he pretty much is hes:
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Yeah, those youth arguments don't impress me much. If he sucks now, he might one day be a decent backup, but his ceiling is obviously nothing like what we were hoping. Even Thomas Robinson showed more, at least he's a great rebounder and makes plays with his extreme athleticism. Joel Freeland was a much better player than Vonleh.
 
Sinobas said:
Yeah, those youth arguments don't impress me much. If he sucks now, he might one day be a decent backup, but his ceiling is obviously nothing like what we were hoping. Even Thomas Robinson showed more, at least he's a great rebounder and makes plays with his extreme athleticism. Joel Freeland was a much better player than Vonleh.
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What else do we have to hang our hat on?

I mean, everyone wanted Meyers out of here the first couple years, now we have a freaking post from someone thinking he could be a potential superstar.

If that's the case, we can trade CJ and Meyers for a superstar. Right?
 
Strenuus said:
What else do we have to hang our hat on?

I mean, everyone wanted Meyers out of here the first couple years, now we have a freaking post from someone thinking he could be a potential superstar.

If that's the case, we can trade CJ and Meyers for a superstar. Right?
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Yeah but even Meyers as a clueless rookie was more productive in terms of numbers than Vonleh.

I don't think Von is a lost cause, but people should temper their expectations. He's not a guaranteed star like some people act like....
 
The other day I was ridiculed for saying - somewhat tongue in cheek - that he's been Ha Seung-jin bad. So today I was going to say that he's been very Kwame Brown. But after doing a player comparison, he's quite a bit worse than Kwame, and the Ha comparison per36 is fairly spot-on except Ha shot about 20% better.
 
blue9 said:
The other day I was ridiculed for saying - somewhat tongue in cheek - that he's been Ha Seung-jin bad. So today I was going to say that he's been very Kwame Brown. But after doing a player comparison, he's quite a bit worse than Kwame, and the Ha comparison per36 is fairly spot-on except Ha shot about 20% better.
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Makes sense why CHA bailed on him now huh
 
Sinobas said:
[Vonleh] plays with the fire and energy of Nic Batum.
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If only.



It's lucky for Olshey that somehow everyone's convinced themselves that Batum was going to leave at the end of this season, because otherwise Olshey would be getting more heat for a really crappy trade.
 
I think we're seeing now why he didn't get much pla
Rastapopoulos said:
If only.



It's lucky for Olshey that somehow everyone's convinced themselves that Batum was going to leave at the end of this season, because otherwise Olshey would be getting more heat for a really crappy trade.
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Neither Henderson nor Vonleh are impressing in the least, but I was so ready to move on from Batum.
 
I see some of you haven't learned much from all the Meyers, CJ and Crabbe bashing that's been done in years past, only to be proven wrong. Hard to believe young players actually get better. Vonleh's numbers are still higher than Leonard's were his second year and Vonleh at least looks like he's played organized ball before, more than I can say for Leonard at that point in his career.
 
noknobs said:
I see some of you haven't learned much from all the Meyers, CJ and Crabbe bashing that's been done in years past, only to be proven wrong. Hard to believe young players actually get better. Vonleh's numbers are still higher than Leonard's were his second year and Vonleh at least looks like he's played organized ball before, more than I can say for Leonard at that point in his career.
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I feel like I have to say this again, as I did in my original comparison several days back: I'm not saying anything about Vonleh's future, only commenting on his present. He could very well become a good player some day, but right now he's not good by any stretch of the imagination - there's really no denying that. Beyond that, I'm not making any predictions about him.
However, as to your assertion about Vonleh/Meyers, it's not really true:
http://bkref.com/tiny/igszH
 
noknobs said:
I see some of you haven't learned much from all the Meyers, CJ and Crabbe bashing that's been done in years past, only to be proven wrong. Hard to believe young players actually get better. Vonleh's numbers are still higher than Leonard's were his second year and Vonleh at least looks like he's played organized ball before, more than I can say for Leonard at that point in his career.
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Or Jermaine. I made that mistake with Jermaine, writing him off too soon. I was THRILLED with the Dale Davis trade.
 
blue9 said:
However, as to your assertion about Vonleh/Meyers, it's not really true:
http://bkref.com/tiny/igszH
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Neither is good but looks true to me... Don't throw that worthless 'Per 36 minutes' stat at me. Neither are playing nearly that amount in their 2nd year so trying to extrapolate what they'd be producing with 36 minutes a piece is pointless.
 
noknobs said:
Neither is good but looks true to me... Don't throw that worthless 'Per 36 minutes' stat at me. Neither are playing nearly that amount in their 2nd year so trying to extrapolate what they'd be producing with 36 minutes a piece is pointless.
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Not even looking at their Per 36, but just at per game, there isn't a single category where Noah is meaningfully better than Meyers. Yet he's playing 5 minutes more to get the same numbers...except for being a -5% on FG%. How exactly is Noah better than Meyers in his second year?
 
blue9 said:
Not even looking at their Per 36, but just at per game, there isn't a single category where Noah is meaningfully better than Meyers. Yet he's playing 5 minutes more to get the same numbers...except for being a -5% on FG%. How exactly is Noah better than Meyers in his second year?
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All I know is one of the reasons Meyers played less was because he was a massive liability on the floor with extremely fragile confidence. At 20 years old the same can't be said of Vonleh. You should believe Neil and CO scouted him well before the trade and have earned respect as good talent evaluators. I think there's enough empirical evidence at this point to roll the dice with another Olshey project, it's not like this year is about winning anyway so why the f not?
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
He showed flashes.

Although these are rare it should give you hope.

His defense was awesome. He took away KP's angles like a vet.
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If he actually got some fucking playing time... His last five games:

7 points 2-2 shooting, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, and 2 steals in 17 minutes.

2 points 1-1 shooting, 5 rebounds, 1 assist in 17 minutes.

2 points 1-1 shooting, 4 rebounds in 11 minutes.

6 points 3-5 shooting, 7 rebounds, 1 assist in 14 minutes.

4 points 2-4 shooting, 3 rebounds, 1 assist, and 1 steal in 15 minutes.

Averages would be 4.2 points, 69% shooting, and 4.8 rebounds in 14.8 minutes per game.
 
Meyers Leonard may or may not be fool's gold, but I think Vonleh will be the real thing. Let him play!
 
Leonard is not fool's gold, he's nowhere near gold for anybody.
 
I think it's pretty obvious that he's improving gradually with consistent playing time. So............. how bout some more?
 
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