Status Quo...

[Rhal]

OP is kind of annoying, and by kind of I mean really, especially for starting another thread, but there’s some truth to what he’s saying.

The problem I have is we’re blaming the wrong guy. Every move in the past year, year and a half has been financial. Those moves are coming from the top. We’re still paying for 2016.

It’s probably more likely that we try and get under the tax ASAP than make a trade to significantly upgrade the roster. Who’s next to get sacrificed for the absolute disaster contracts Neil handed out? Aminu?

But my main question; why hasn’t Paul fired Olshey yet? Why was he given an EXTENSION if were still paying for the summer of 16? I’m ok with his drafts but the time it’ll take to develop the Collins and the Simons will come at the cost of Lillards prime.

I’m just fed up.

Unlike a lot of other teams that mad disastrous contracts in 2016 we haven't' had to give up assets to get out of those contracts. We would not have had capspace anyways if we didn't sign those players and I really doubt they have made it impossible to do a trade. Sure we maybe didn't take on a bloated contract of a player because of them but in reality what have those contracts cost us?

 

[JoshuaHall]

This thread is not about Kawhi, it’s about Neil’s overall inactivity and another offseason going by with no change... I would settle for any starter being traded or a new coach at this point... just can’t believe we are looking at EXACT same starters and coach after last seasons failure

I agree with this sentiment.

Stotts is a shit coach - I’ll never expect anything from the Blazers as long as he is coach.

 

[BonesJones]

Color me skeptical but CJ, Collins, and our pick is probably a better deal than what the Raptors offered. Raptors likely to win more games than us, making the pick likely to turn into two seconds.

Hell, CJ and DeRozan are VERY similar... it’s almost a wash... especially considering CJ is a significantly better shooter. I’d take Collins 10/10 over Poetl, as well.

DeRozen is better than C.J., and it's not that close. The only thing C.J. has on Derozen is 3pt shooting. DeRozen is much better in pretty much every other area. If DD was a Blazer instead, every Blazer fan would think he's better than C.J. Seth Curry is actually closer to C.J. in production (if you use his 16-17 year) than C.J. is to DeRozen.

Honestly, it seems like you'd take Collins over Poeltl because you're a Blazer fan. Poeltl was a higher pick (9th), has a much more defined and polished offensive game (he shot 66% last year), and provided elite defense (2.9 DBPM, 2.4BLKs Per 36). If Poeltl was a Blazer instead of Collins, you'd probably take Poeltl over Collins.

 

[Scalma]

Also that TPE will cost PA 3x the salary of the player we get back, I know its not fun to have to look at the money when it comes to roster but that is a part. We aren't using the TPE to bring in someone who is only okay at the price they are paid, aka courtney lee, that will only marginally help the team. I was hoping the TPE woudl be used as part of a bigger deal but it will go to waste most likely, I am not okay with that at all but I understand the reasoning behind it.

I don’t care about letting the TPE expire but what was the point of leading the fans on about using it?

I’m more annoyed at Olshey hoarding his players. I’m tired of him mentioning CJ in the same sentence as Lillard. He talks about upgrading the “top 9” but then talks about building the second unit around Evan Turner, hypes Harkless as one of the two main reasons for their surge last year, and talks about Aminu like he’s Draymond Green. So where are these upgrades going to come from? Who is he willing to sacrifice? And we’re surprised when nothing happens. Lol get outta here.

 

[JoshuaHall]

DeRozen is better than C.J., and it's not that close. The only thing C.J. has on Derozen is 3pt shooting. DeRozen is much better in pretty much every other area. If DD was a Blazer instead, every Blazer fan would think he's better than C.J. Seth Curry is actually closer to C.J. in production (if you use his 16-17 year) than C.J. is to DeRozen.

Honestly, it seems like you'd take Collins over Poeltl because you're a Blazer fan. Poeltl was a higher pick (9th), has a much more defined and polished offensive game (he shot 66% last year), and provided elite defense (2.9 DBPM, 2.4BLKs Per 36). If Poeltl was a Blazer instead of Collins, you'd probably take Poeltl over Collins.

I said they are similar. DeRozan is better, but not significantly. DeRozans inability to shoot the 3 also hinders his teammates; in fact, Masai and the Raptors demanded he start launching 3s because it hurt there offense so much when he didn’t. So now he launches more 3s than he should at an ineffective clip. He is also a piss poor defender, just like CJ. As a matter of fact, CJ has a better ts%, assist, and is only worse as a rebounder, according to the statistical evidence. CJ even turns it over less. So I’m not sure what areas you speak of... DeRozan also has a pretty solid defense team around him, unlike CJ, which inflate his defensive numbers in theory... and there still poor.

Incorrect, I would not. I look at overall impact. Poetl is in his second year, I expect Collins to improve as well. I don’t care about Poetl’s shooting percentage - that’s like giving me Ed Davis’ numbers. He gets garbage buckets, so of course it’s inflated. 80% of his shots are dunks \ layups. Poetls limitations are “limited offensive game a repertoire” so Inreally struggle with your comment about him being a polished offensive player... I think you just looked at the stats. He also shoots 4 times per game. Poetl can’t shoot or stretch the floor - as Collins can do - and he’s a poor defensive rebounder for a 7’1 guy.

 

[Reep]

Minimal?

He got traded for a top 15-20 player, a high-level prospect, and a pick.

I appreciate your opinion. I see DD as 20-25 level player, Poeltl as meh and a late 1st round pick. A healthy motivated Kawhi should have brought 50%-100% more.

 

[BonesJones]

I said they are similar. DeRozan is better, but not significantly. DeRozans inability to shoot the 3 also hinders his teammates; in fact, Masai and the Raptors demanded he start launching 3s because it hurt there offense so much when he didn’t. So now he launches more 3s than he should at an ineffective clip. He is also a piss poor defender, just like CJ. As a matter of fact, CJ has a better ts%, assist, and is only worse as a rebounder, according to the statistical evidence. CJ even turns it over less. So I’m not sure what areas you speak of... DeRozan also has a pretty solid defense team around him, unlike CJ, which inflate his defensive numbers in theory... and there still poor.

Incorrect, I would not. I look at overall impact. Poetl is in his second year, I expect Collins to improve as well. I don’t care about Poetl’s shooting percentage - that’s like giving me Ed Davis’ numbers. He gets garbage buckets, so of course it’s inflated. 80% of his shots are dunks \ layups. Poetl can’t shoot or stretch the floor - as Collins can do - and he’s a poor defensive rebounder for a 7’1 guy.

Poeltl projects out as a slimmer, more efficient version of Jusuf Nurkic. He's a good roller and post-up guy, and provides elite rim protection. You say he's a poor defensive rebounder, but if he was a Blazer, then he'd be a "great offensive rebounder"...

C.J. turns it over less because he doesn't try to make plays for others. That's not a positive. Derozen has a 2.36 AST:TO ratio compared to a 1.79 for C.J.

You need to check your facts too..

TS%
CJ - 53.6
DD - 55.5

AST%
CJ - 15.8
DD - 25.0

And you realize advanced defensive stats aren't really affected by having good teammates? And our defense was better than theirs last year according to DRTG (adjusted for opponents offensive strength).

If you polled other GMs, the majority, if not all of them would say DeRozen is better.

 

[Propagandist]

Dame sounding like some of in here: "We came into the offseason saying we want to get better, we want to take steps forward, go after some vets and we tried, I guess, we tried to get guys to come here in free agency. I'm pretty sure we tried everything that we could to try and improve the team..."

Lol.

 

[JoshuaHall]

Poeltl projects out as a slimmer, more efficient version of Jusuf Nurkic. He's a good roller and post-up guy, and provides elite rim protection. You say he's a poor defensive rebounder, but if he was a Blazer, then he'd be a "great offensive rebounder"...

C.J. turns it over less because he doesn't try to make plays for others. That's not a positive. Derozen has a 2.36 AST:TO ratio compared to a 1.79 for C.J.

You need to check your facts too..

TS%
CJ - 53.6
DD - 55.5

AST%
CJ - 15.8
DD - 25.0

And you realize advanced defensive stats aren't really affected by having good teammates? And our defense was better than theirs last year according to DRTG (adjusted for opponents offensive strength).

If you polled other GMs, the majority, if not all of them would say DeRozen is better.

I’ve said Demar is better; don’t know why you’re arguing that.

Also, I’m looking at career numbers - not just last year, since we have multiple seasons to go off of. These players have significant time in the league.

Cj is 55.2%

Demar is 53.6

Nurkic is way better offensively than Poetl. Poetl doesn’t have a post up game, at all. There is a reason Nurkic didn’t get paid big time either, because he can’t shoot. This is also why some of our own fans want Nurk gone for Collins so someone can stretch the floor from the 5. (I’ve seen that posted here, not saying you, or I, said it.)

I also think most GMs would take DeMar; however, with the value 3pt shooting has - I know some GMs would like to see what CJ would do in the “lead” dog role as well.

And defensive stats are undoubtedly affected by team defense. Being able to cover mistakes with elite shot blockers, help defenders, or having the benefit of guarding a non threat all aid in most measures of defense.

 

[blue9]

Stotts is a shit coach.

The only comment worth a damn in this thread.

 

[Scalma]

Dame sounding like some of in here: "We came into the offseason saying we want to get better, we want to take steps forward, go after some vets and we tried, I guess, we tried to get guys to come here in free agency. I'm pretty sure we tried everything that we could to try and improve the team..."

Lol.

Lolol. What a ringing endorsement

Hopefully Paul cans Olshey before it’s too late.

 

[TBpup]

What if I'm not an apologist, what if I actually look at the situation as a realist and understand why Neil makes the moves he does... before he opens his mouth to explain himself.

Utah's big addition this year was Grayson Allen that's kind of a Status Quo move.

Utah's move is to have Gobert healthy. Gobert missed 26 games last year and the Jazz finished 1 game behind the Blazers. Kawhi missed 73 games and the Spurs finished just 2 games behind the Blazers. The Thunder were missing their best defender for 43 games and they finished 1 game behind the Blazers.

Those teams didn't need to do as much if they stayed 'status quo'. If they are healthy, they all finish in front of the Blazers last year.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

As we go into the later part of free agency, it appears that the Blazers have decided to bring back essentially the same roster next season. The TPE that Neil touted so much will expire soon... and will most likely go unused. Also, it appears like no major trades will be made due to Neil’s unwillingness to offer anything of value. So we essentially have status quo... no one held accountable for last seasons epic failure... all the blame placed on Ed Davis, Shabazz Napier, and Pat Connoughton... and as a solution to take this team to the next level, Neil signs a guy that missed all of last season with a major injury, and another guy who couldn’t even stand out for the Nets. How does Neil expect this team to improve? Does he really think we got swept in the playoffs again because of end of the bench guys? And while other teams in the west improved and get healthier, Blazers stay the same again... There is a very good chance this is not a playoff team next season... 7/8th seed at best. Blazers fans deserve better... we need a GM like Toronto’s that can admit things aren’t working and change direction. Neil either has too big of an ego or is just scared to shake things up... either way, it will lead to eternal mediocrity.

Ocean's 11
Ocean's 12
Ocean's 13
Olshey's 15

All four are about the long con, only one ends where no one wins.

 

[Hoopguru]

This thread is not about Kawhi, it’s about Neil’s overall inactivity and another offseason going by with no change... I would settle for any starter being traded or a new coach at this point... just can’t believe we are looking at EXACT same starters and coach after last seasons failure

Hey man the season has started yet, who's to say there won't be a trade coming.
When trades are made in the NBA usually teams give up more than they get in return.

 

[Scalma]

Hey man the season has started yet, who's to say there won't be a trade coming.
When trades are made in the NBA usually teams give up more than they get in return.

Why give Olshey the benefit of the doubt? Has he done anything to deserve it?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Toronto lied to and threw away it's first loyal, franchise player (a guy who represented the town and city very well and did a ton for the community) for a one year rental of a player who doesn't want to be there.

That's not a move that should be praised.

The lying part, I’m not cool with that. I think the move is great for Toronto though. They got swept in the playoffs. There guards were getting older. They had an even worse cap situation than Portland. They probably felt like they were going no where fast. Even if Kahwi leaves there. So situation starts to get better.

Kahwi could be the best player in the conference next year.

 

[Hoopguru]

Why give Olshey the benefit of the doubt? Has he done anything to deserve it?

Gees Louise....the team finished the season with the 7th best record in the nba. I know they laid an egg during playoffs but they have improved some each of the last few years.
Plus its possible he did well in the draft this year and even took a risk with Simons. Hell GTjr. could end up a Terry Porter/Jerom Kersey type 2 round selection.
He's going into the 4th year of a 5 year rebuild and I agree the weighting for next year is way up. Lets see what happens.
I'll be on board with a change if we do regress this year, including replacing Neil, trading Dame CJ or both no sacred cows.

 

[CupWizier]

DeRozen is better than C.J., and it's not that close. The only thing C.J. has on Derozen is 3pt shooting. DeRozen is much better in pretty much every other area. If DD was a Blazer instead, every Blazer fan would think he's better than C.J. Seth Curry is actually closer to C.J. in production (if you use his 16-17 year) than C.J. is to DeRozen.

Honestly, it seems like you'd take Collins over Poeltl because you're a Blazer fan. Poeltl was a higher pick (9th), has a much more defined and polished offensive game (he shot 66% last year), and provided elite defense (2.9 DBPM, 2.4BLKs Per 36). If Poeltl was a Blazer instead of Collins, you'd probably take Poeltl over Collins.

Actually I bet if you asked all the GM's in the league they would project Derozan and CJ as pretty close and seriously, because Poeltl was taken 9th that means he is better than a 10 selection? To me they are probably very similar and Poeltl has played 2 seasons where as Collins is 2 years younger and only played one season.

 

[Scalma]

Gees Louise....the team finished the season with the 7th best record in the nba. I know they laid an egg during playoffs but they have improved some each of the last few years.
Plus its possible he did well in the draft this year and even took a risk with Simons. Hell GTjr. could end up a Terry Porter/Jerom Kersey type 2 round selection.
He's going into the 4th year of a 5 year rebuild and I agree the weighting for next year is way up. Lets see what happens.
I'll be on board with a change if we do regress this year, including replacing Neil, trading Dame CJ or both no sacred cows.

But do you think that success last year was because of Olshey or because of Stotts and the players taking defense more seriously? The roster didn’t really change.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Fired their coach, traded a star player... and Toronto was better than Portland but realized they had peaked. Neil decides to bring back exact same starters and coach and expects different results

You may have a point, except that our top 7 guys were 27. 26. 27. 23, 23, 29 and 19. If you think they've "peaked", when LAL just brought in a 33y/o and HOU signed one to a 4/160M contract, I guess we disagree.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Yes, because nothing has changed... Neil has done absolutely NOTHING! Everything is being swept under the rug and no one has been held accountable for last season epic failure. And seeing all the moves Toronto has made is a reminder that Neil has done NOTHING!

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Why give Olshey the benefit of the doubt? Has he done anything to deserve it?

I struggle with this one. When do I become grins and just go ok screw this get him out of here. I’ve put this TPE thing in my head that, that is his deadline but reality is even that’s not even close to the end of summer...
The Blazers always seem to be a team “interested” in the big names but never land them. Now to be fair that’s true of a lot of teams.

 

[KingSpeed]

As we go into the later part of free agency, it appears that the Blazers have decided to bring back essentially the same roster next season. The TPE that Neil touted so much will expire soon... and will most likely go unused. Also, it appears like no major trades will be made due to Neil’s unwillingness to offer anything of value. So we essentially have status quo... no one held accountable for last seasons epic failure... all the blame placed on Ed Davis, Shabazz Napier, and Pat Connoughton... and as a solution to take this team to the next level, Neil signs a guy that missed all of last season with a major injury, and another guy who couldn’t even stand out for the Nets. How does Neil expect this team to improve? Does he really think we got swept in the playoffs again because of end of the bench guys? And while other teams in the west improved and get healthier, Blazers stay the same again... There is a very good chance this is not a playoff team next season... 7/8th seed at best. Blazers fans deserve better... we need a GM like Toronto’s that can admit things aren’t working and change direction. Neil either has too big of an ego or is just scared to shake things up... either way, it will lead to eternal mediocrity.

Everyone said this last year and then we went from 8 seed to 3 seed. We are bringing back core that won 49 games. It's more likely that we win 50 than it is that we miss the playoffs. We have a fucking All NBA First Team point guard!!!

 

[KingSpeed]

Utah's move is to have Gobert healthy. Gobert missed 26 games last year and the Jazz finished 1 game behind the Blazers. Kawhi missed 73 games and the Spurs finished just 2 games behind the Blazers. The Thunder were missing their best defender for 43 games and they finished 1 game behind the Blazers.

Those teams didn't need to do as much if they stayed 'status quo'. If they are healthy, they all finish in front of the Blazers last year.

We had injuries too.

 

[TBpup]

We had injuries too.

Yes we did....but not NEARLY to the extent of losing someone the quality of Kawhi all season or the defensive impact Gobert had.

 

[Scalma]

Hell yeah Neil is the best! Hope he stays forever!

 

[KingSpeed]

Hell yeah Neil is the best! Hope he stays forever!

Did you expect more than 49 wins three years after losing Aldridge for nothing? Neil has been great. Gets no credit for bringing a guy like Ed Davis in and then gets crucified when it's time to let him go now that he's brought in young talent to take his place. Aminu was a great signing. Nurkic trade was the best trade in the NBA two seasons ago. He's made some good draft picks. He picks up people like Harkless and Baldwin IV off the garbage heap.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Awesome.

Same bullshit. Same people. New thread.

Getting pretty lame.....

 

[theprunetang]

I like turtles.

 

[santeesioux]

Do you remember when Cho was here and we called it "status Cho"?