Summer upgrades

[BonesJones]

Okay, so take RoCo out and Philly could still do it but then they wouldn't have as much cap space. Keep in mind, part of the trade is getting Bayless off their books who they need gone for cap room too which is why we'd get extra for that but let's say they wouldn't give up RoCo.

CJ for #10, #26, Bayless, Richaun Holmes, and TLC?

I'd probably still consider that.

That's selling low IMO. The ONLY valuable piece back is the 10th pick.

 

[hoopsjock]

My theoretical thinking with Saric was that Collins is so athletic he could guard wings while Dario takes ballhandling duties on offense. Kind of why I thought Mirotic and Collins could’ve played together. Mirotic isn’t the ballhandler Saric is but he can create.

See I feel the exact opposite. I don't like Saric as much handling the ball and I certainly don't like him guarding a center in the post. I'm not saying Collins is better than Saric or Mirotic because he isn't at this point but I like Collins with a traditional big and then sometimes as the center in small lineups. If we got Richaun Holmes that might be a better fit with Collins in my opinion. That would be some crazy length and defense. I also still like Nurk too though.

 

[Scalma]

"Lack of skill" is the biggest cop out possible.

He's had a top 10 offense because he's had either a top 5 offensive big man and top 5 offensive guard, or a top 5 offensive guard and a top 10 offensive guard. He's had legitimate offensive talent, especially in the Aldridge days. We we're top 10 in assists during the Aldridge era, as well actually moved the ball around the horn, used Aldridge to collapse the defense, and played from there. But Nurkic is a better passer than RoLo.... CJ is a better passer than Wes was (not saying much)... Dame is a better passer than he used to be... Turner is a better passer than Dorell Wright, even though his APG have been cut in half since he came here (which is indicative of the problem)... So how can you sit here and say that the Aldridge teams we're top 10 in assists because they knew how to pass, but we're LAST in assists because somehow, we're THAT bad at passing?

His offense is easily defended in the playoffs in the post-Aldridge era. His offense stagnates under any sort of pressure. I've noted this two years ago and it's gotten even worse. Watch the film.

FYI, not everything has to be pick n roll. Ball movement doesn't mean threading the needle or making tricky passes. It means hitting the open guy, making the extra pass, driving against the seams and kicking out. You really think we have the worst passing team in the league in terms of skill? Even then, a good team would have sets that would utilize basic passing that would get us more assists per game than we do. If somebody is sprung open on a curl, any NBA player can deliver them the ball.

We ARE built to run. Who said Harkless should be pushing on the fast break?? We have two guards that should be pushing the ball. Both are great ball handlers, both can pullup from 3, mid-range, or get to the rim and finish crafty lay-ins. We have two fast, long, athletic wings in Harkless and Aminu that would be great running the lanes. You believe that, to be great in transition, we need "power finishers"? Golden State didn't have anyone like that when they had Harrison Barnes at SF (pre-Durant) yet they we're still the best transition/fast break team in the league. These guys don't know how to run a fastbreak because of coaching. They're not coached to. They don't have principles in place based on transition and fast break offense. They don't have a coach that will get on them for not running. How many times have you heard Terry Stotts emphasize running the break in the huddle?

Do we need better offensive players? Probably. But that's not the problem. Even with poor offensive players, we can still run an offensive system that has more than 2 passes in a possession, that attempts to get something other than jumpshots, and that has some level of player movement with cuts that aren't away from the rim.

I’m going to ignore all the pseudo coach talk, but thanks for explaining basketball to me anyway.

On a more serious note, I don’t know how you can honestly say “skill level is a cop out.” I’ve maintained for awhile that this is one of the least talented rosters relative to their success in the league. That’s a credit to Stotts and the coaching staff. These role players aren’t going to go elsewhere and play better. Quite the opposite actually. Players come here and play their best basketball. But a coach can only do so much. At some point the players need to take responsibility, and the GM needs to upgrade the talent pool. Collins was a start. More of that and Portland will be fine.

People forget that this is still the youngest team in the playoffs. Numerous guys in the rotation are experiencing this for the first time; the same guys that New Orleans is daring to beat them.

 

[hoopsjock]

That's selling low IMO. The ONLY valuable piece back is the 10th pick.

It would potentially free up a ton of salary in the Summer of 2020 when Anthony Davis is a free agent and Dame still has a year left on his deal though. Ahhhh, I can dream right?

Realistically though they could combine 24 and 26 to make sure they got Hutchinson or if he fell to 24 we could use 26 to try and dump Leonard (or any number of possibilities) and take Mikal Bridges at 10. I know that the whole deal would then hinge on what those two draft picks became but even if just one of them is really good I think it would work out. It would also put us in a better position financially.

Dame, Baldwin, Bayless
Bridges, Hutchinson, Harkless, Turner, TLC
Collins, Aminu, Swanigan
Nurk, Holmes, PapaG

Davis, Napier, and PC still out there as free agents too and other trades likely as well. I don't know, just trying to get a good player via the draft because I don't think CJ is going to bring back an established star.

 

[BonesJones]

I’m going to ignore all the pseudo coach talk, but thanks for explaining basketball to me anyway.

On a more serious note, I don’t know how you can honestly say “skill level is a cop out.” I’ve maintained for awhile that this is one of the least talented rosters relative to their success in the league. That’s a credit to Stotts and the coaching staff. These role players aren’t going to go elsewhere and play better. Quite the opposite actually. Players come here and play their best basketball. But a coach can only do so much. At some point the players need to take responsibility, and the GM needs to upgrade the talent pool. Collins was a start. More of that and Portland will be fine.

People forget that this is still the youngest team in the playoffs. Numerous guys in the rotation are experiencing this for the first time; the same guys that New Orleans is daring to beat them.

Pseudo coach talk? More like educated analysis.

We play an awful style. Teams with less talent play a better style of basketball, even if it's less successful. A style that if we adopted, we'd be much better and would be able to achieve some postseason success.

The lack of adjustments to? I'm sure that's a talent problem and Dame needs to find a way to drop 40 points on double and triple teams?

 

[Scalma]

See I feel the exact opposite. I don't like Saric as much handling the ball and I certainly don't like him guarding a center in the post. I'm not saying Collins is better than Saric or Mirotic because he isn't at this point but I like Collins with a traditional big and then sometimes as the center in small lineups. If we got Richaun Holmes that might be a better fit with Collins in my opinion. That would be some crazy length and defense. I also still like Nurk too though.

Why would Saric guard a center?

In my scenario it would be Collins and Saric at forward with Nurkic at center.

 

[Scalma]

Pseudo coach talk? More like educated analysis.

We play an awful style. Teams with less talent play a better style of basketball, even if it's less successful. A style that if we adopted, we'd be much better and would be able to achieve some postseason success.

The lack of adjustments to? I'm sure that's a talent problem and Dame needs to find a way to drop 40 points on double and triple teams?

There's a reason why New Orleans has focused their entire defensive strategy on ONE player. Lillard is the only guy that scares anyone. And we do have plenty of off the ball movement. Our wings are in constant motion and set down screens all the time. Nurk and Collins hit cutters form the high post all the time, but they're our bigs! When CJ misses wide open cutters is that a coaching issue, or is he just selfish? I'll go with B. When Napier misses wide open cutters, is that a coaching issue, or is he just selfish? I'll go with B. When Turner makes a bad pass every other possession is that a coaching issue? Those are three of our four primary ball handlers. Out of the four, do you trust anyone outside Dame? I don't. Won't even mention Aminu. That's not a coaching issue. That's talent. Two of our best and least selfish passers are bigs, one of them a rookie, the other a full time starter for the first time.

 

[BonesJones]

There's a reason why New Orleans has focused their entire defensive strategy on ONE player. Lillard is the only guy that scares anyone. And we do have plenty of off the ball movement. Our wings are in constant motion and set down screens all the time. Nurk and Collins hit cutters form the high post all the time, but they're our bigs! When CJ misses wide open cutters is that a coaching issue, or is he just selfish? I'll go with B. When Napier misses wide open cutters, is that a coaching issue, or is he just selfish? I'll go with B. When Turner makes a bad pass every other possession is that a coaching issue? Those are three of our four primary ball handlers. Out of the four, do you trust anyone outside Dame? I don't. Won't even mention Aminu. That's not a coaching issue. That's talent. Two of our best and least selfish passers are bigs, one of them a rookie, the other a full time starter for the first time.

You're making it more and more evident that you're not paying enough attention.

They're trapping Lillard off pick n rolls... So why do we have Nurkic and Aminu setting ball screens at halfcourt and then standing around while Dame gets trapped? And this is in Game 3, after we've seen this defense 2 games in a row. Where's the adjustment? Why are we bringing the trap to Dame at halfcourt where he can't escape dribble, with the only outlet to relieve pressure being our Center 30ft away from the rim? Is this not on Stotts either?

The only basket-cuts we have is out of our Horns set (which Is the most well known offense that almost every team uses and one we run less and less of) and improvised backcuts when teams overplay (which we use less and less of). Do you know what Horns is? Honest question. (It's not "pseudo coach talk" if you don't know..)

We don't have plenty of off ball movement. I don't know what you're watching if you think that. Theres very little. Watch whatbI post later today amd try to tell me their is offball movement.

There's no wide open cutters. What set gets cutters wide open? And by cutters, I mean guys going towards the basket, not away. Anyone could V-cut to get open.

Turner was a 5apg guy in Boston. Why has he regressed in that area? Are you really about to say he lost his ability to pass?

Players are selfish because our coach allows them to be. Our coach allows guys to consistently play bullshit hero-ball without yanking them. Our coach obviously doesn't emphasize ball movement enough, and I still don't think your paying enough attention to the minimal sets that we DO run.

 

[Scalma]

You're making it more and more evident that you're not paying enough attention.

The only cuts we have is out of our Horns set (which we run less and less of) and improvised backcuts when teams overplay (which we use less and less of).

We don't have plenty of off ball movement. I don't know what you're watching you think that.

There's no wide open cutters. What set gets cutters wide open? And by cutters, I mean guys going towards the basket, not away.

Turner was a 5apg guy in Boston. Why has he regressed in that area? Are you really about to say he lost his ability to pass?

Players are selfish because our coach allows them to be. Our coach allows guys to consistently play bullshit hero-ball without yanking them. Our coach obviously doesn't emphasize ball movement enough, and I still don't think your paying enough attention to the minimal sets that we DO run.

CJ and Napier miss so many open guys every game (whether they’re off pick and rolls or cutters is insignificant, point is they’re open) Id need more than my two hands to count. Shit I’ll chart it tomorrow and post it if you’d like.

And yes it’s Terrys fault when Evan makes his patented unforced turnover. He’s giving him too much freedom! His assist numbers are down because in Boston he was pretty much a point guard. He had the ball in his hands a lot more. That’s one adjustment Terry could theoretically make, but I personally don’t want to see Evan handle the ball MORE. Do you?

And who is Stotts gonna yank these guys for exactly?

 

[BonesJones]

CJ and Napier miss so many open guys every game (whether they’re off pick and rolls or cutters is insignificant, point is they’re open) Id need more than my two hands to count.

And yes it’s Terrys fault when Evan makes his patented unforced turnover. He’s giving him too much freedom! His assist numbers are down because in Boston he was pretty much a point guard. He had the ball in his hands a lot more. That’s one adjustment Terry could theoretically make, but I personally don’t want to see Evan handle the ball MORE. Do you?

And who is Stotts gonna yank these guys for exactly?

But most of the time thwy miss open guys, ita when they drive 1v1 after pounding the ball 20 times where they dont make the right read after defenses collapse. Its very rare that they miss a rim-cutter as part of a designed set.

Terry Stotts giving players too much freedom is one of the biggest problems I have with him. Aminu can dribble whenever he wants, Lillard and CJ can shoot from wherever they want, whenever they want, Nurkic can shoot whatever mid-range jumpshot he wants, Napier can pound the ball into the floor for 15 seconds whenever he feels like it, Turner can throw whatever BS pass he wants...

Thing is, this is basic, correctable stuff. If Stotts is coaching these guys not to do this, and they still are, then he's lost the team. If he ISNT telling guys to knock this crap off, then he's not holding them accountable enough. Both are damning.

 

[H.C.]

It would potentially free up a ton of salary in the Summer of 2020 when Anthony Davis is a free agent and Dame still has a year left on his deal though. Ahhhh, I can dream right?

Realistically though they could combine 24 and 26 to make sure they got Hutchinson or if he fell to 24 we could use 26 to try and dump Leonard (or any number of possibilities) and take Mikal Bridges at 10. I know that the whole deal would then hinge on what those two draft picks became but even if just one of them is really good I think it would work out. It would also put us in a better position financially.

Dame, Baldwin, Bayless
Bridges, Hutchinson, Harkless, Turner, TLC
Collins, Aminu, Swanigan
Nurk, Holmes, PapaG

Davis, Napier, and PC still out there as free agents too and other trades likely as well. I don't know, just trying to get a good player via the draft because I don't think CJ is going to bring back an established star.

This is an example of making a trade, just to make a trade.
AD's not coming here in 2020.

 

[CupWizier]

I don’t care about Batums shooting percentages in Charlotte, I’d do anything to get him back. God that trade still pisses me off. I’d have to think Charlotte would be open to moving him, but I don’t know what we could offer that’d be fair. Aminu, Turner, and a pick?

That contract is horrendous though.

 

[hoopsjock]

Why would Saric guard a center?

In my scenario it would be Collins and Saric at forward with Nurkic at center.

So Collins would be the SF? Or are you saying that is the rotation at PF?

 

[hoopsjock]

This is an example of making a trade, just to make a trade.
AD's not coming here in 2020.

Did you not read the sentence after that? I thought it was pretty clear I was caught in dreamland for a moment.

 

[Scalma]

So Collins would be the SF? Or are you saying that is the rotation at PF?

Yeah since this is just a fantasy scenario. Collins is probably better suited to defend wings than centers right now.

 

[CupWizier]

Have to believe that RoCo is actually worth more than CJ at this junction in their careers...

I see Covington as a slight upgrade over Harkless but he isn't worth more than McCollum and I bet every NBA GM would agree.

 

[hoopsjock]

Yeah since this is just a fantasy scenario. Collins is probably better suited to defend wings than centers right now.

Yikes, that would be a terrible idea. He does fine getting switched onto a guard in certain situations but I wouldn't purposely make him a wing player. I still think he's a PF moving forward and wouldn't force him into any other position.

 

[H.C.]

I see Covington as a slight upgrade over Harkless but he isn't worth more than McCollum and I bet every NBA GM would agree.

I agree with you that every GM would agree that CJ is worth more than Roco.
But I also think Roco is a vastly better player than Harkless.

 

[Scalma]

I agree with you that every GM would agree that CJ is worth more than Roco.
But I also think Roco is a vastly better player than Harkless.

Covington is actually a good player for Harkless to model himself after. If Harkless can be that consistent 3&D wing, it would be huge going forward. I’m actually encouraged by what I’ve seen from Moe ever since he got put back in the rotation. Covington took years to develop into what he is now. Moe still has time on his side and I think he did some maturing this season.

 

[Lanny]

I gotta respond again... this is the most idiotic fucking post I have ever read... after what you just saw you want to bring back the Dame and CJ pairing with Stotts as coach??! What’s the F is wrong with you bro!!!

This is simply ironic.

 

[CupWizier]

I agree with you that every GM would agree that CJ is worth more than Roco.
But I also think Roco is a vastly better player than Harkless.

ok, what does vastly mean to you? Defensively they are very similar. Shooting wise Harkless is a better percentage shooter by a decent margin. Covington scored more and rebounded a bit better this year but he also shot more than twice as many shots and played more minutes per game. Covington is a better ball handler but neither are what I would consider passing small forwards so what is he vastly superior at in your opinion? Mo is also 3 years younger.

 

[H.C.]

Covington is actually a good player for Harkless to model himself after. If Harkless can be that consistent 3&D wing, it would be huge going forward. I’m actually encouraged by what I’ve seen from Moe ever since he got put back in the rotation. Covington took years to develop into what he is now. Moe still has time on his side and I think he did some maturing this season.

I don't think we'll ever see Moe attempt 7 threes a game. That's just not his game.
Where Roco has attempted 6+ every year he's been in the league. (outside of his rookie season when he only played in 7 games)

 

[chzbrgr]

Come back in July and see which one of us was closer to reality.

Just cause that is the more likely outcome doesn’t mean it’s the best thing to do. The status quoe has been inconsistent and mediocre so far, and you think it’s best to double down?

 

[Scalma]

Just cause that is the more likely outcome doesn’t mean it’s the best thing to do. The status quoe has been inconsistent and mediocre so far, and you think it’s best to double down?

It may not be the best thing to do, I’m not saying my opinion is right. But yes, I believe in what’s being built. I believe in Zach Collins developing into an impact player. I believe in Harkless’ maturation. I believe in Terry’s ability to coach up players. Blowing it up now wouldn’t make much sense to me.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Neil really fucked this roster!

 

[Scalma]

Anyways back on topic.

Who’s excited for Wayne Ellington to be a Blazer I am.

But on a serious note I think we need more veterans in the locker room. Guys like Gerald Henderson make more of an impact than we realize. Ellington and Vince would not only help on the court, but their impact would go beyond, especially Carter. The only real sounding board we have is Ed Davis, but our guards could use another guy that plays their position and can relate better.

 

[dviss1]

They don't do that. I think we have to give up more, and I wanna keep 24 for Hutchison.

Maybe:
LAC Gets: 10th Pick, 26th Pick, 2019 POR 1st,
POR Gets: 12th Pick, Tobias Harris, Robert Covington, Jerryd Bayless
PHI Gets: CJ McCollum

Trade 12, two future 2nds, and Harkless for 9 and Lee
Trade Aminu for something

Draft Mikal Bridges and Chandler Hutchison.

Lillard / Baldwin
Lee / Hutchison
Covington / Bridges
Harris / Collins /
Nurkic / Davis / Leonard

So Fultz comes off the bench next year? I don't think Philly does that. I don't think they get rid of Covington.

Edit: also, look at your lineup like you put it together on 2K. Who's gonna handle the ball besides Lillard? No one besides Lillard would have more than a 72 Ball Control.

 

[Labinot41]

Blazers need a completely new Offensive playbook. They need a Lot more passing to involve every Player and a faster pace. Just like the Raptors. To be honest we play the same ISO Basketball shit just like the Raptors from last years. Look at the Basketball the 76ers playing, that's so Great

 

[hoopsjock]

Anyways back on topic.

Who’s excited for Wayne Ellington to be a Blazer I am.

But on a serious note I think we need more veterans in the locker room. Guys like Gerald Henderson make more of an impact than we realize. Ellington and Vince would not only help on the court, but their impact would go beyond, especially Carter. The only real sounding board we have is Ed Davis, but our guards could use another guy that plays their position and can relate better.

Speaking of Gerald Henderson, he should be healed and cheap.

 

[Scalma]

Speaking of Gerald Henderson, he should be healed and cheap.

I’m for it, why not?