Summer upgrades

[ebott]

I'm really hoping we just blow it up. This team has done as well as one could hope with what they have. I'd rather be utterly bad and have some shred of hope for the future than be doomed to mediocrity for the next decade.

 

[theprunetang]

Cash Considerations was huge off the bench for us in game 3.

 

[BonesJones]

What the actual fuck are you talking about??

He said we need BIG changes and possibly a new coach and that my post was bullshit.

I brought up that in July my post will be closer to reality than his wishlist.

You decided to argue that, and said it won’t be.

You weren't exactly clear at all. So basically you implied context without actually implying it. Nice.

We're straying from the fact that this is Stotts fault and you haven't told me how your additions will fix the problems with how the team plays.

 

[hoopsjock]

Who says no?

CJ and pick 24 (has to be included because they owe their 2019 pick to Boston) to LAC
for
Tobias Harris/Filler (Boban?)/Pick 12 and 13

 

[Scalma]

You weren't exactly clear at all. So basically you implied context without actually implying it. Nice.

We're straying from the fact that this is Stotts fault and you haven't told me how your additions will fix the problems with how the team plays.

I don’t have a problem with Stotts, nor how he uses the players he has. When he had an actual post presence he ran the entire offense through him. I do know he favors threes, and adding someone like Ellington would help, almost as much as adding Mirotic would have. He’s a more dynamic (not just a set) shooter than anyone we currently have outside of Dame and CJ. His presence alone would also change the way teams defend our pick and roll. It would free up space for Nurkic and take pressure off our backcourt. These are some of the same points I made for acquiring Mirotic. It’d be a game changing addition even if he’s not necessarily a game changing name.

 

[Scalma]

Time for Ed to recruit.

 

[hoopsjock]

How about this one:

CJ to Philly (they'd still have some wiggle room for a run at LeBron too)

Robert Covington, Jerryd Bayless (filler), TLC or Richaun Holmes, and the #10 pick

 

[BonesJones]

I don’t have a problem with Stotts, nor how he uses the players he has. When he had an actual post presence he ran the entire offense through him. I do know he favors threes, and adding someone like Ellington would help, almost as much as adding Mirotic would have. He’s a more dynamic (not just a set) shooter than anyone we currently have outside of Dame and CJ. His presence alone would also change the way teams defend our pick and roll. It would free up space for Nurkic and take pressure off our backcourt. These are some of the same points I made for acquiring Mirotic. It’d be a game changing addition even if he’s not necessarily a game changing name.

If you don't see a problem with our lack of ball movement, stagnant offense, lack of off-ball mobement, especially in regards to action/cuts towards the rim, as well as the fact that we don't push in transition with a team that's built to run in order to settle for this halfcourt stagnation, then that explains why you want to keep Stotts.

 

[hoopsjock]

CJ to the Knicks
for
Tim Hardaway Jr, Filler, and pick 9

Then they also give us Courtney Lee for the TPE.

 

[BonesJones]

Who says no?

CJ and pick 24 (has to be included because they owe their 2019 pick to Boston) to LAC
for
Tobias Harris/Filler (Boban?)/Pick 12 and 13

They don't do that. I think we have to give up more, and I wanna keep 24 for Hutchison.

Maybe:
LAC Gets: 10th Pick, 26th Pick, 2019 POR 1st,
POR Gets: 12th Pick, Tobias Harris, Robert Covington, Jerryd Bayless
PHI Gets: CJ McCollum

Trade 12, two future 2nds, and Harkless for 9 and Lee
Trade Aminu for something

Draft Mikal Bridges and Chandler Hutchison.

Lillard / Baldwin
Lee / Hutchison
Covington / Bridges
Harris / Collins /
Nurkic / Davis / Leonard

 

[H.C.]

My biggest problem with the current roster is Portland doesn't have a player outside of Lillard who can create for others.
If that's scheme then the scheme should change.
If that's lack of talent, then the talent needs to change.

I hate to say this again... Due to how much I hated Batum's tenure as a Blazer...
But Batum could make the P&R work with a less skilled, less mobile, really less everything big in Rolo.
Their P&R was a staple of Portland offense, teams had to game plan for it as you knew it was going to happen at least three times a game.
Yet Turner, can't make it work with Nurk?
I mean I don't recall too often these two even being put in baseline/elbow P&R.
Turner was brought in to create when teams take Lillard out of the game. Why is he not being put in a situation at least three times a game to run a P&R with Nurk?
Can he not make that pocket pass? Can he not hit Nurk on a lob?
Or shit why don't we see Turner/Collins baseline/elbow P&R?

The only thing Turner does when he's in a P&R is take a 10-15ft jumper.
That's not good enough. Scoring is not good enough.
Cool you can make that shot, and if you get to your spot. The defense can't stop it.
Cool....
That does not take pressure off Lillard to create for others.

Frankly, it's bullshit.
I could show you a 5th grader who could make that pass.

 

[Mediocre Man]

 

[Scalma]

If you don't see a problem with our lack of ball movement, stagnant offense, lack of off-ball mobement, especially in regards to action/cuts towards the rim, as well as the fact that we don't push in transition with a team that's built to run in order to settle for this halfcourt stagnation, then that explains why you want to keep Stotts.

Those problems to me are rooted in the personnel, not coaching. Stotts has had a top 10 offense every year he’s been in Portland save this one and his first year. The similarities between the two? Talent. Where is it? You want ball movement? We have ONE guy that knows how to pass out of a pick and roll. Our center is probably our second best passer. Terry has always preached ball movement. When we had Wes, LA, and Batum we were top 10 in assists.

Our team is built for transition? What? Have you seen these guys in the open court? Which one was ever good in transition? Harkless is the closest but he’s not a power finisher either.

Is Terry perfect? Nope. Is he the best coach for Portland? Imo yes. It’s funny, not long ago people were bitching that Terry could only coach offense. Then we get an anchor in Nurkic and all of a sudden the defense changes. Point is, we need better offensive players, not a new coach.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

How about this one:

CJ to Philly (they'd still have some wiggle room for a run at LeBron too)

Robert Covington, Jerryd Bayless (filler), TLC or Richaun Holmes, and the #10 pick

Have to believe that RoCo is actually worth more than CJ at this junction in their careers...

 

[Scalma]

My biggest problem with the current roster is Portland doesn't have a player outside of Lillard who can create for others.
If that's scheme then the scheme should change.
If that's lack of talent, then the talent needs to change.

I hate to say this again... Due to how much I hated Batum's tenure as a Blazer...
But Batum could make the P&R work with a less skilled, less mobile, really less everything big in Rolo.
Their P&R was a staple of Portland offense, teams had to game plan for it as you knew it was going to happen at least three times a game.
Yet Turner, can't make it work with Nurk?
I mean I don't recall too often these two even being put in baseline/elbow P&R.
Turner was brought in to create when teams take Lillard out of the game. Why is he not being put in a situation at least three times a game to run a P&R with Nurk?
Can he not make that pocket pass? Can he not hit Nurk on a lob?
Or shit why don't we see Turner/Collins baseline/elbow P&R?

The only thing Turner does when he's in a P&R is take a 10-15ft jumper.
That's not good enough. Scoring is not good enough.
Cool you can make that shot, and if you get to your spot. The defense can't stop it.
Cool....
That does not take pressure off Lillard to create for others.

Frankly, it's bullshit.
I could show you a 5th grader who could make that pass.

I don’t care about Batums shooting percentages in Charlotte, I’d do anything to get him back. God that trade still pisses me off. I’d have to think Charlotte would be open to moving him, but I don’t know what we could offer that’d be fair. Aminu, Turner, and a pick?

 

[tester551]

Have to believe that RoCo is actually worth more than CJ at this junction in their careers...

Agreed. I don't think its close either.

 

[hoopsjock]

Have to believe that RoCo is actually worth more than CJ at this junction in their careers...

That is a severe reaction to CJ's current struggles and and not watching RoCo as closely on a day to day basis. CJ isn't close to RoCo defensively, but RoCo isn't close to CJ offensively. We're talking about a "shooter" who's under 40% shooting for his career in the NBA. In my theoretical trade they would only include RoCo anyway because that would free up the necessary money for LeBron too. If they had LeBron, Simmons, Fultz, and CJ then RoCo is expendable. CJ would kill in that lineup with those three passers. A starting lineup of Fultz, CJ, Simmons, LeBron, and Embiid would be lethal. Substitute Saric for LeBron in the starting lineup if he didn't come and they'd still have $30 million in cap space to add to the bench.

 

[CupWizier]

I gotta respond again... this is the most idiotic fucking post I have ever read... after what you just saw you want to bring back the Dame and CJ pairing with Stotts as coach??! What’s the F is wrong with you bro!!!

So you don't allow others to have an opinion? How Trumpish of you.

 

[Scalma]

I’ve thought about philly/CJ, but the guy id want in return is Saric. Don’t know how that would work financially though.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

That is a severe reaction to CJ's current struggles and and not watching RoCo as closely on a day to day basis. CJ isn't close to RoCo defensively, but RoCo isn't close to CJ offensively. We're talking about a "shooter" who's under 40% shooting for his career in the NBA. In my theoretical trade they would only include RoCo anyway because that would free up the necessary money for LeBron too. If they had LeBron, Simmons, Fultz, and CJ then RoCo is expendable. CJ would kill in that lineup with those three passers. A starting lineup of Fultz, CJ, Simmons, LeBron, and Embiid would be lethal. Substitute Saric for LeBron in the starting lineup if he didn't come and they'd still have $30 million in cap space to add to the bench.

That's fine--just saying that I doubt that Philly would agree to that offer, for the reason I gave. If we could get Roco, JB, TLC AND the 10 for CJ, I'd jump on that in a heartbeat.

 

[BonesJones]

I’ve thought about philly/CJ, but the guy id want in return is Saric. Don’t know how that would work financially though.

Saric?... He's overrated.

 

[Scalma]

Saric?... He's overrated.

How is he overrated?

 

[BonesJones]

I don’t care about Batums shooting percentages in Charlotte, I’d do anything to get him back. God that trade still pisses me off. I’d have to think Charlotte would be open to moving him, but I don’t know what we could offer that’d be fair. Aminu, Turner, and a pick?

I hope you mean a 2nd round pick, because nobody was giving up a 1st round pick and a starter for Batum and that was before he was overpaid.

 

[BonesJones]

How is he overrated?

Edit: Just looked at his stats, and he improved a lot this year. Last year he was overrated as he wasn't good at all but he made more progress this year than I thought.

 

[blue9]

OP lost me with the first sentence.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Irrational and reactionary??! We are down 3-0 to a team missing their 2nd best player after home court advantage... and just got blown out in a must win game... this team is pathetic and fooled fans by beating teams with their best players out to have a mirage 3rd seed... what a fucking joke... such a flawed roster

But you want to make a trade JUST to make a trade, regardless of whether it improves us or not.

Yes. You are reactionary.

 

[hoopsjock]

I’ve thought about philly/CJ, but the guy id want in return is Saric. Don’t know how that would work financially though.

Yeah, I would take Saric but I don't think they'd give up the #10 pick then (making it harder for us to replace CJ) and that would really hurt their big man depth. Since you were trying to take a realistic approach, so was I.

On a side note with Zach Collins aboard, I'd be surprised if a stud PF was who we went after to bolster the lineup.

 

[Scalma]

Yeah, I would take Saric but I don't think they'd give up the #10 pick then (making it harder for us to replace CJ) and that would really hurt their big man depth. Since you were trying to take a realistic approach, so was I.

On a side note with Zach Collins aboard, I'd be surprised if a stud PF was who we went after to bolster the lineup.

My theoretical thinking with Saric was that Collins is so athletic he could guard wings while Dario takes ballhandling duties on offense. Kind of why I thought Mirotic and Collins could’ve played together. Mirotic isn’t the ballhandler Saric is but he can create.

 

[BonesJones]

Those problems to me are rooted in the personnel, not coaching. Stotts has had a top 10 offense every year he’s been in Portland save this one and his first year. The similarities between the two? Talent. Where is it? You want ball movement? We have ONE guy that knows how to pass out of a pick and roll. Our center is probably our second best passer. Terry has always preached ball movement. When we had Wes, LA, and Batum we were top 10 in assists.

Our team is built for transition? What? Have you seen these guys in the open court? Which one was ever good in transition? Harkless is the closest but he’s not a power finisher either.

Is Terry perfect? Nope. Is he the best coach for Portland? Imo yes. It’s funny, not long ago people were bitching that Terry could only coach offense. Then we get an anchor in Nurkic and all of a sudden the defense changes. Point is, we need better offensive players, not a new coach.

"Lack of skill" is the biggest cop out possible.

He's had a top 10 offense because he's had either a top 5 offensive big man and top 5 offensive guard, or a top 5 offensive guard and a top 10 offensive guard. He's had legitimate offensive talent, especially in the Aldridge days. We we're top 10 in assists during the Aldridge era, as well actually moved the ball around the horn, used Aldridge to collapse the defense, and played from there. But Nurkic is a better passer than RoLo.... CJ is a better passer than Wes was (not saying much)... Dame is a better passer than he used to be... Turner is a better passer than Dorell Wright, even though his APG have been cut in half since he came here (which is indicative of the problem)... So how can you sit here and say that the Aldridge teams we're top 10 in assists because they knew how to pass, but we're LAST in assists because somehow, we're THAT bad at passing?

His offense is easily defended in the playoffs in the post-Aldridge era. His offense stagnates under any sort of pressure. I've noted this two years ago and it's gotten even worse. Watch the film.

FYI, not everything has to be pick n roll. Ball movement doesn't mean threading the needle or making tricky passes. It means hitting the open guy, making the extra pass, driving against the seams and kicking out. You really think we have the worst passing team in the league in terms of skill? Even then, a good team would have sets that would utilize basic passing that would get us more assists per game than we do. If somebody is sprung open on a curl, any NBA player can deliver them the ball.

We ARE built to run. Who said Harkless should be pushing on the fast break?? We have two guards that should be pushing the ball. Both are great ball handlers, both can pullup from 3, mid-range, or get to the rim and finish crafty lay-ins. We have two fast, long, athletic wings in Harkless and Aminu that would be great running the lanes. You believe that, to be great in transition, we need "power finishers"? Golden State didn't have anyone like that when they had Harrison Barnes at SF (pre-Durant) yet they we're still the best transition/fast break team in the league. These guys don't know how to run a fastbreak because of coaching. They're not coached to. They don't have principles in place based on transition and fast break offense. They don't have a coach that will get on them for not running. How many times have you heard Terry Stotts emphasize running the break in the huddle?

Do we need better offensive players? Probably. But that's not the problem. Even with poor offensive players, we can still run an offensive system that has more than 2 passes in a possession, that attempts to get something other than jumpshots, and that has some level of player movement with cuts that aren't away from the rim.

 

[hoopsjock]

That's fine--just saying that I doubt that Philly would agree to that offer, for the reason I gave. If we could get Roco, JB, TLC AND the 10 for CJ, I'd jump on that in a heartbeat.

Okay, so take RoCo out and Philly could still do it but then they wouldn't have as much cap space. Keep in mind, part of the trade is getting Bayless off their books who they need gone for cap room too which is why we'd get extra for that but let's say they wouldn't give up RoCo.

CJ for #10, #26, Bayless, Richaun Holmes, and TLC?

I'd probably still consider that.