Politics Supreme Court Lets Trump Proceed on Wall Plans Amid Legal Fight

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GhostOfPGA said:
We blow money on way more frivolous shit.. I don’t buy that argument
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You don't have to buy the argument for it to be someones argument. Especially when you'd dismiss any counter argument possible.
 
GhostOfPGA said:
Idc, there are some murdering assholes that come across, you know a better way to curtail that than trying to eliminate any and all entrants possible?
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The # of the people who are coming to the US illegally, and murder, is significantly lower than the # of people who are here legally, and murder (or commit crimes).
 
There are so many historical reasons why building a fence/wall has a basis in racism, that's it not even funny. It's hard to ignore that the land that the wall is on used to be someone elses land (that we stole from the Mexicans/Natives), and it used to be that we welcomed these people coming into the US (to do seasonal work, etc), and then we changed our minds and blamed them for stuff that was wrong with the country because of racism.

So even discounting those facts, let's just talk about how the wall is a needless contraption done to distract people from real issues. Most of the people who come to the US, via this method, aren't criminals. Drugs are not coming via this route at the rate implied. Most of the people who are here illegally, did not come through this route and their #'s won't decrease due to a wall.

IF illegal immigration was the actual issue, the government would tackle is where it actually happens (people over staying their visas), but they don't want to. They just want to further divide us as a country (after all, it's easier to blame the other).

Sure, there are murders that happen due to illegal immigration, and sure there are crimes that occur perpetrated by illegal immigrants and illegal immigration. But their #'s are much lower than that of the legal citizens of this country. And I'm sure people will be able to provide anecdotal evidence "proving" the need for the wall/blame it on illegal immigration...but facts will say otherwise.

This is no different then the lie about voter fraud. It's meant to distract us, and also create a distrust of the "other". And the fact that people fall for it on a regular basis, is telling.
 
julius said:
There are so many historical reasons why building a fence/wall has a basis in racism, that's it not even funny. It's hard to ignore that the land that the wall is on used to be someone elses land (that we stole from the Mexicans/Natives), and it used to be that we welcomed these people coming into the US (to do seasonal work, etc), and then we changed our minds and blamed them for stuff that was wrong with the country because of racism.

So even discounting those facts, let's just talk about how the wall is a needless contraption done to distract people from real issues. Most of the people who come to the US, via this method, aren't criminals. Drugs are not coming via this route at the rate implied. Most of the people who are here illegally, did not come through this route and their #'s won't decrease due to a wall.

IF illegal immigration was the actual issue, the government would tackle is where it actually happens (people over staying their visas), but they don't want to. They just want to further divide us as a country (after all, it's easier to blame the other).

Sure, there are murders that happen due to illegal immigration, and sure there are crimes that occur perpetrated by illegal immigrants and illegal immigration. But their #'s are much lower than that of the legal citizens of this country. And I'm sure people will be able to provide anecdotal evidence "proving" the need for the wall/blame it on illegal immigration...but facts will say otherwise.

This is no different then the lie about voter fraud. It's meant to distract us, and also create a distrust of the "other". And the fact that people fall for it on a regular basis, is telling.
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Many great points here, I especially like the mention of the divide between this country being created/accelerated by this and many other current events.

This wall that is being built, not only a physical wall along the border - but a metaphorical wall between the people of this country.
 
I've always wanted to El Chapo to pay for the wall. I think we've got his billions...somewhere. Why can't that happen? Now, how many of you would be in agreement of that notion?
 
ABM said:
I've always wanted to El Chapo to pay for the wall. I think we've got his billions...somewhere. Why can't that happen? Now, how many of you would be in agreement of that notion?
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Well, his "net worth" is a drop in the bucket for the total cost. And it doesn't change that the wall doesn't provide us protection from the reasons associated with justifications for building the wall.
 
ABM said:
I've always wanted to El Chapo to pay for the wall. I think we've got his billions...somewhere. Why can't that happen? Now, how many of you would be in agreement of that notion?
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Taking his money - sure. Wasting it on a stupid wall? No thanks.

barfo
 
GhostOfPGA said:
For those against a wall, what does it hurt to have one? If it even saves one life from an illegal alien it’s worth it.
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Really, you are willing to spend billions of tax dollars to save one life?

Think how high your taxes will be when we spend quadrillions to save all the other lives that need saving.

People-killed-by-things-other-than-immigrants lives matter.

There are a few million people who die every year in the US, I believe. Million x billion = quadrillion. It's a large number...

But to answer your question: it hurts the economy, it hurts the environment, it hurts foreign policy, it hurts people along the border.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Taking his money - sure. Wasting it on a stupid wall? No thanks.

barfo
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Can't have it both ways. No wall, no El Chapo's money. LOL

Seriously, though, I could see a wall as a means to centralize other security/detection technologies and/or resources. A wall in and of itself is not enough.
 
Here’s an another idea.... bus all the illegals to Canada for their “asylum”
 
jonnyboy said:
So we have to wait a billion years to see if your statistics are correct?
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No, we just need to use google. A million times a billion is called a quadrillion.
 
GhostOfPGA said:
Here’s an another idea.... bus all the illegals to Canada for their “asylum”
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Canada has always promoted immigration and citizenship to their country. One of the big difference however, they must have money to gain entrance to become a citizen. Those that migrated from Hong Kong were required to invest nearly 1/2 million Canadian in a business or non profit. Canada needs people as they only have approx. 1/10th of our population bit they want people that can invest and support their economy before entrance and application for citizenship.
 
Hoopguru said:
Canada has always promoted immigration and citizenship to their country. One of the big difference however, they must have money to gain entrance to become a citizen. Those that migrated from Hong Kong were required to invest nearly 1/2 million Canadian in a business or non profit. Canada needs people as they only have approx. 1/10th of our population bit they want people that can invest and support their economy before entrance and application for citizenship.
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What about “asylum” seakers?
 
ABM said:
Well, drugs is a start. Apart from the illegals, I don't want them making their way into my country. That said, I think it will take more than a wall in and of itself. it's gonna take technology, and human resources, as well.
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90% of the illegal drugs come in through our ports of entry. A great deal of the rest comes in by boat, tunnel and small plane. How in the world is an expensive wall going to make a dent in the drug problem?
 
PDXFonz said:
We build fences around our yards...Why?

For privacy, to keep people out, to keep things (children, pets) in.

We build gates attached to them so that we the owners may come and go as we please, or decide who we open it up to, to let in and out.

How is this wall any different?

The government controls the gate, which means they can tell you that you may not pass just as easily as they can say the same to inhabitants of Mexico.

So in short, as someone opposed to the wall - One bad thing about it is that it infringes on the very freedom that this Nation was built on, and was made to represent.
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A fence around your yard is totally different. No one is going to tunnel under my fence for one.
 
GhostOfPGA said:
For those against a wall, what does it hurt to have one? If it even saves one life from an illegal alien it’s worth it.
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H0w about spending that money on health care for the disadvantaged? Would saving twice as many lives by putting the money saved from not building a wall to providing health care be worth it?
 
Hoopguru said:
sure, they allow asylum seekers but Im not totally sure about their criteria or policy.
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Time to find out then. Send them to Canada’s border and let them deal with the problem.
 
Lanny said:
A fence around your yard is totally different. No one is going to tunnel under my fence for one.
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Well I’m glad to hear you dont have gopher or mole problems.
 
PDXFonz said:
Well I’m glad to hear you dont have gopher or mole problems.
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I certainly have none that are trying to smuggle drugs or people nor are they seeking asylum. In fact, even the dogs next door don't try to dig under.
But back to the issue, if you want to try to stem the tide there are multiple ways to do that better than a stupid nearly useless wall.
The Wall is strictly a campaign promise that Mexico was suppose to gladly pay for. Now, if Mexico gladly pays for the Wall then who am I to complain about how they voluntarily spend their hard earned money. Until then, I oppose such a ridiculous way of getting us even further into debt.
How about allowing people to shower and use a toothbrush for starters? How about reuniting children with their families? How about adjudicating assylum seekers in a more rapid manner? How about strengthening border patrol mainly at our checkpoints?
And there is a near desperate need for money for social purposes like schools, roads, bridges, mass transit, water works, sewage treatment plants, recycling, federal parks, electric power distribution, clean renewable energy, etc. etc. etc.
 
Lanny said:
I certainly have none that are trying to smuggle drugs or people nor are they seeking asylum. In fact, even the dogs next door don't try to dig under.
But back to the issue, if you want to try to stem the tide there are multiple ways to do that better than a stupid nearly useless wall.
The Wall is strictly a campaign promise that Mexico was suppose to gladly pay for. Now, if Mexico gladly pays for the Wall then who am I to complain about how they voluntarily spend their hard earned money. Until then, I oppose such a ridiculous way of getting us even further into debt.
How about allowing people to shower and use a toothbrush for starters? How about reuniting children with their families? How about adjudicating assylum seekers in a more rapid manner? How about strengthening border patrol mainly at our checkpoints?
And there is a near desperate need for money for social purposes like schools, roads, bridges, mass transit, water works, sewage treatment plants, recycling, federal parks, electric power distribution, clean renewable energy, etc. etc. etc.
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Let me know when you see the parallels of the metaphor for the wall and a fence for the back yard.

That is if you can relax long enough to realize you’re trying to argue with someone who takes the same stance on the subject as you...
 
PDXFonz said:
Let me know when you see the parallels of the metaphor for the wall and a fence for the back yard.

That is if you can relax long enough to realize you’re trying to argue with someone who takes the same stance on the subject as you...
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I see the stretching of any reasonable metaphor beyond all recognition. That's what I see. Comparison? Practically none.
My fence is in my yard in my state in my country. The Wall separates two countries. Once asylum seekers or smugglers get into the United States they have no further need for breaching any sort of wall or fence.
The main reason for my fence is to keep cats and dogs out. If I could do that with a fence patrol costing even less than my fence I guess I'd do that, so long as they didn't want anything off my grill when I'm cooking out there.
 
PDXFonz said:
Well I’m glad to hear you dont have gopher or mole problems.
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I have a fence in my backyard so that my dogs don't escape and get in harms way. I also paid for it and built it myself. I guess I should have taken the bill to my neighbors and insisted they pay for it like trump is doing.
 
CupWizier said:
I have a fence in my backyard so that my dogs don't escape and get in harms way. I also paid for it and built it myself. I guess I should have taken the bill to my neighbors and insisted they pay for it like trump is doing.
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Well, it is usually kosher for neighbors to pay for a common fence.
 
ABM said:
Do the libs really think our country is gonna be a sieve for ANYONE at ANYTIME to just trot on in to our country and set up shop or hang out without any sort of due process?

Folks, this ain't your granddaddy's Ellis Island world we're living in.

Good on Trump. BUILD THAT WALL!!
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Sorry, been busy, we won the Media Division in the Rip City 3 on 3 tournament. Hurrah for the good guys!

But now I have a little time to jump into this.

No, a wall doesn't do anything to fix the problem of illegal immigration. All it does is deflect from the real problems and issues.

A wall is not a solution, it's an obstacle. Nothing more, nothing less.

If we want to fix illegal immigration then lets do it. Right now we're only addressing half the issue.

1. Make hiring illegals illegal. It's very simple, increase the penalties and enforcement for hiring illegals. Whether you're a business or a consumer let's ramp this shit up. You want to put a dent in things, $10,000 fine per illegal, you want to crush it, 1 year in jail per illegal hired. I mean come on, while the war on drugs isn't one of our most successful wars at least we arrest and punish both the user and dealer. In this case we're only arresting the users. We're not going after the "dealers" of jobs to illegals. Farmers, roofers, landscape maintenance, restaurants, lots of places depend on an illegal workforce. If you're in real estate you see it. From landscapers, to construction, repair. Lots of those places depend on illegals.

2. Make profiting off of illegals illegal. How fucked up is it that we claim that we don't want them here but banks and financial institutions are allowed to lend to them. They can finance cars, they can get a home mortgage, sure, the interest rates are considerably higher but so fucking what. If they are so fucking terrible then lets stop profiting off of them. Again, you can't fix the problem if there are no penalties from profiting off of them.

3. Let's call them what they are, an exploitable work force. They're not "taking our jobs!" they are being hired by people who don't want to pay things like workers comp and health insurance. We are just fucking these people over, intentionally, for profit. That's the plain truth. All these terrible things we say about them, they clog up our emergency rooms, they don't pay taxes. We're doing that, we're causing that problem.

4. Let's spend some money and effort and stop them as a work force. Then we'll finally understand how much this country needs an exploitable workforce. Hell, maybe we don't need them. But right now we don't know. Right now we have no way of legally hiring vital workers for some of the industries that I've mentioned.

5. If you're a Christian, if you're really a conservative you will support and understand what I'm advocating. If you're someone who just wants to abuse and fuck over brown people then you want a wall.
 
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