Exclusive |Swept| So it begins - 2017 offseason

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

This was the first season where I have ever not watched each and every game in it's entirety. Every single second.
At times this season, the play was so putrid I'd duck out to the kitchen for a sandwich or a coffee - something that would be sacrilege with previous incarnations of the Blazers.

It was a clusterfuck mix of Stotts, Meyers, Crabbe, Going to have to add Harkless - have been a big fan but he just didn't look like he gave a fuck recently. The cherry on top was a 'home' broadcast team that forced me towards watching the away broadcast more times than not, with it's sucktitude.

Dark Days indeed - but if there is not wholesale changes this offseason (Stotts, Meyers, Crabbe etc) - then I can, for the first time ever, see myself being less-attached and involved about the Blazers games next season. And that makes Will a sad man!
 
This was the first season where I have ever not watched each and every game in it's entirety. Every single second.
At times this season, the play was so putrid I'd duck out to the kitchen for a sandwich or a coffee - something that would be sacrilege with previous incarnations of the Blazers.

It was a clusterfuck mix of Stotts, Meyers, Crabbe, Going to have to add Harkless - have been a big fan but he just didn't look like he gave a fuck recently. The cherry on top was a 'home' broadcast team that forced me towards watching the away broadcast more times than not, with it's sucktitude.

Dark Days indeed - but if there is not wholesale changes this offseason (Stotts, Meyers, Crabbe etc) - then I can, for the first time ever, see myself being less-attached and involved about the Blazers games next season. And that makes Will a sad man!
This is amazing to me that you wouldn't watch a Blazer game. Ignore the fact I HAVE to watch every game. I don't think from the time I could walk and talk until I started working the games did I ever miss a game. Regardless of who was playing or how they were playing.
 
It's amazing to me aswell HCP, that I'd even consider this - believe me, that's why I'm upset about it.
( Realistically there's no way I"m going to miss a game though :p )

I just really don't like the style/way we play currently. Prob least enjoyable style to watch out of our modern era Blazer teams.
 
This is amazing to me that you wouldn't watch a Blazer game. Ignore the fact I HAVE to watch every game. I don't think from the time I could walk and talk until I started working the games did I ever miss a game. Regardless of who was playing or how they were playing.

I missed games, too, even when I wasn't working.

I've been a bad, bad fan. Punish me.
 
My thoughts:

Dame and CJ could work. However, since they are not that great of passers/ball handlers, I still think Evan Turner is the best solution with them in the game. But since Turner's game is limited offensively, the Blazers need a PF who can hit the 8-10 foot jumper over people. Another thing that Nurk is kind of deficient in.

I liked Harkless' hustle for much of the season, but he seemed to mail it in during the playoffs and totally fucking disappeared. I want him gone. Torn on Crabbe vs. Aminu. Crabbe has the stroke to be a top 3 point shooter in the league, and we will miss that when he is gone. He is very very paid though considering our team's makeup. So I guess I would say we keep Aminu as a backup 3.

Keep:
Dame
CJ
Turner
Nurk
Vonleh (Backup PF)
Meyers (not gonna be able to give him away)
Aminu
Shabazz

Out:
Harkless
Crabbe
Connaughton
Draft Pick or two

In:
PF who can shoot midrange jumpers and is a decent rebounder
Energy guy at whatever Position
Backup Center (maybe draft)

God that team still sucks. I give up.
 
We will not be able to move too many of our terrible contracts. Even Crabbe who looked mildly transferable even 3-4 months ago looks completely useless now. We could maybe send Harkless somewhere who would bite but it stops at that. Players like Leonard we would probably not be able to send anywhere even if we added a no. 1 pick, he's this useless.

The key is drafting this year. We can get 3 players in, and we should use that opportunity to bring in some potential. I know people are saying we are a young team anyway but there's no potential in our young players, Nurkic aside. CJ and Lillard are pretty much ready-now, developed players, the rest will not improve much beyond what they have shown so far. That's why we need to address that and get 3 young players who can get better and provide us with some answers to our issues. If we got out of this draft with someone like Anunoby/Ferguson/Jackson to put at SF, I would probably advocate immediately giving them 20-25 minutes per game because long term that might work better than playing someone who has probably reached their ceiling or got close. Likewise at power forward, if we got Isaiah Hartenstein or one of Collinses, it's better to develop them and see where it takes us than keep playing Aminu out of position or hoping that Vonleh suddenly becomes good.

We are not going to get a player through a trade that will solve our problems, unless we hit the lottery. Draft is maybe a place where we could hope to find something, and honestly this is the only way we can succeed in the future. Warriors would never be where they are if they traded no. 11 pick from 2011 (Thompson) or no. 36 from 2012 (Green) which is what a lot of guys on here are saying we should do. Thing is, we shouldn't. Getting an average player who is slightly better than what we have is no solution at all as they won't bring us any closer to the championship that is so far away.
 
Last edited:
Carmello for Crabbe would be pretty money for both teams tbh. Melo needs out of a big market.

He probably goes to clippers though when the lose Blake Griffin. I bet Dwayne wade ends up there too. And maybe LeBron in 3 years.
 
the more i think about it the more i think we need a different type of coach.

reading the 'meyers fuckin sucks thread' it's mindboggling that a guy who was basically all about playing D and dunks, turns into a weak af 7 foot sg since joining the team. nobody in their right mind would encourage that. combined with some of the 'strategy' stotts has as far as laco of calls and oddball subs etc, im not sure he's the right fit.

scott skiles would be interesting.

trade meyers, crabbe, turner, davis, aminu, harkless and pick if needed, but get most of these fuckin guys OFF the team.

I used to love Davis and Harkless but they'v changed so much as far as play style and effectiveness - its mega disappointing.
 
the more i think about it the more i think we need a different type of coach.

reading the 'meyers fuckin sucks thread' it's mindboggling that a guy who was basically all about playing D and dunks, turns into a weak af 7 foot sg since joining the team.
Agreed. And observe Vonleh's perimeter play of late. Disappointingly he has adopted the Stotts(Meyers) stand at the top of the key when receiving the ball and don't even look to be a threat. Just self-neuter any attacking chance and immediately look to offload/defer to one of the guards.

It essentially reduces our offense to 4-on-5, and is not pretty to watch.
That's on the coach. Even Stevie Wonder would eventually see that it's not effective & make an adjustment.
 
We will not be able to move too many of our terrible contracts. Even Crabbe who looked mildly transferable even 3-4 months ago looks completely useless now. We could maybe send Harkless somewhere who would bite but it stops at that. Players like Leonard we would probably not be able to send anywhere even if we added a no. 1 pick, he's this useless.

The key is drafting this year. We can get 3 players in, and we should use that opportunity to bring in some potential. I know people are saying we are a young team anyway but there's no potential in our young players, Nurkic aside. CJ and Lillard are pretty much ready-now, developed players, the rest will not improve much beyond what they have shown so far. That's why we need to address that and get 3 young players who can get better and provide us with some answers to our issues. If we got out of this draft with someone like Anunoby/Ferguson/Jackson to put at SF, I would probably advocate immediately giving them 20-25 minutes per game because long term that might work better than playing someone who has probably reached their ceiling or got close. Likewise at power forward, if we got Isaiah Hartenstein or one of Collinses, it's better to develop them and see where it takes us than keep playing Aminu out of position or hoping that Vonleh suddenly becomes good.

We are not going to get a player through a trade that will solve our problems, unless we hit the lottery. Draft is maybe a place where we could hope to find something, and honestly this is the only way we can succeed in the future. Warriors would never be where they are if they traded no. 11 pick from 2011 (Thompson) or no. 36 from 2012 (Green) which is what a lot of guys on here are saying we should do. Thing is, we shouldn't. Getting an average player who is slightly better than what we have is no solution at all as they won't bring us any closer to the championship that is so far away.

So let me get this straight: We won't be able to make any trades for contracts nobody wants. Our current young players have reached their ceiling and won't be able to help move the needle in the short team. The youngest team gets even younger while drafting players that could take up to three to four years to develop. We go into next season with essentially the same roster add three kids. Wow! I think the New York Jets will have a better off season.
 
I wonder what it would take to get PG from the Pacers? He is most definitely gone and it would be a huge risk because if we didn't have a good season he would probably leave for the Lakers. Maybe something like Harkless/our 3 1st and whoever else they want for PG and a bad contract like Thaddius Young or Al Jefferson.
I don't want to move CJ but if we could use him to get Butler i'd do that as well.

Have to keep CJ. He once was trash material(on this forum) a couple of years ago but became integrated and part of the "best backcourt in the NBA". I would prefer CJ over Butler. I would rather see Turner traded for Butler if the contracts are similar. Paul George would throw us over the cap for sure and he may not want to be in Oregon as he could star in the rookie/young star nest in LA. . Why mention TY or AJ when not relevant? Next year, we have the CJ DL JN core no matter what happens.IMO
 
Have to keep CJ. He once was trash material(on this forum) a couple of years ago but became integrated and part of the "best backcourt in the NBA". I would prefer CJ over Butler. I would rather see Turner traded for Butler if the contracts are similar. Paul George would throw us over the cap for sure and he may not want to be in Oregon as he could star in the rookie/young star nest in LA. . Why mention TY or AJ when not relevant? Next year, we have the CJ DL JN core no matter what happens.IMO
I mentioned TY and AJ because Indy is going to want to throw in bad contracts to whoever gets PG. I don't think Chicago would take Turner no matter what we threw in for Butler, it would cost us CJ if we got Butler. We are already over the lux cap next year if we stand pat and as for PG leaving, yes thats a risk but its one i'd be willing to take.
 
So let me get this straight: We won't be able to make any trades for contracts nobody wants. Our current young players have reached their ceiling and won't be able to help move the needle in the short team. The youngest team gets even younger while drafting players that could take up to three to four years to develop. We go into next season with essentially the same roster add three kids. Wow! I think the New York Jets will have a better off season.

Yes, that's actually what I am saying. I don't think there is a quick fix for where Portland are at the moment and making panic moves will only add problems instead of solving them. We could witness it last year when we could not get our targets in free agency (thank God Parsons went to Memphis but still) we went to Evan Turner and offered him a crazy contract, which does not help us at all now. A lot of teams fell into the same trap last season and hardly any of those contracts are now considered even mildly realistic: Parsons, Bazemore, Noah, Deng, Mozgov and even flavor of the playoffs Biyombo are all considered trash, impossible to move contracts. Would all these teams prefer to have $20M in cap space available to them this year? Yes, they would.

There are IMO only a select few viable options:

1) Trade for good players who become available due to their team situation and don't necessarily clog the cap space (see Nurkic). Problem with that is that there are few players like that and to get them, you need to offer some sort of value to the other team. We hit the jackpot with Nurkic while offering a player who wasn't really that strong but it won't happen too often. This is however possible and we should exploit that possibility but IMO only if the player we get still has the room to develop and fits my idea of 'let's compete in 3-4 years' project. So Richaun Holmes, not Thad Young.

2) Use draft picks to get prospects that you can develop into something better. This is a viable option for us because a) we own three of them, b) best prospects available when we are drafting will almost certainly be players in positions which we desperately need to strengthen i.e. small forwards and power forwards. Again, I don't buy the argument that you need 5 years before your young player can play well. We've seen players in the last 3 years making an impact even in their rookie year that would probably elevate us to a new level had it been here. Some of the players who got drafted in 2012-2013 have now been stars for a couple of years or more. If you integrate them properly and they show the potential from the beginning, playing in an environment like Portland where you can get minutes and develop in your best position could quickly unleash the potential in them.

3) Try to flog our high contracts to become a player in free agency and move for players like James Johnson who would maybe consider us. Problem with that is that you would probably need to move 4-5 contracts to do that and you need to find someone who will take those deals. You will also likely find buyers for the better players first, but then could be left with the terrible ones and still no cap space. This is IMO as good as gone opportunity.

4) Try to pretend that players like Crabbe, Turner and Leonard have value across the league and swap them for players who will be more fit for our needs. Again, I doubt this can happen. Crabbe on $8M a year would be easily tradeable. Crabbe at $20M a year is not.

People have come up with solutions like 'trade CJ for PG13' which is basically a one-year rental that could put you in even deeper shit after that year when George inevitably leaves. Unless we manage to truly hit the jackpot, Nurkic like, three times in a row, we won't be competing for championship next year or the year after. It's about putting ourselves in position to compete when it's possible, not making panic moves to maybe get 3-5 more wins next season and then be in even more shit.
 
Yes, that's actually what I am saying. I don't think there is a quick fix for where Portland are at the moment and making panic moves will only add problems instead of solving them. We could witness it last year when we could not get our targets in free agency (thank God Parsons went to Memphis but still) we went to Evan Turner and offered him a crazy contract, which does not help us at all now. A lot of teams fell into the same trap last season and hardly any of those contracts are now considered even mildly realistic: Parsons, Bazemore, Noah, Deng, Mozgov and even flavor of the playoffs Biyombo are all considered trash, impossible to move contracts. Would all these teams prefer to have $20M in cap space available to them this year? Yes, they would.

There are IMO only a select few viable options:

1) Trade for good players who become available due to their team situation and don't necessarily clog the cap space (see Nurkic). Problem with that is that there are few players like that and to get them, you need to offer some sort of value to the other team. We hit the jackpot with Nurkic while offering a player who wasn't really that strong but it won't happen too often. This is however possible and we should exploit that possibility but IMO only if the player we get still has the room to develop and fits my idea of 'let's compete in 3-4 years' project. So Richaun Holmes, not Thad Young.

2) Use draft picks to get prospects that you can develop into something better. This is a viable option for us because a) we own three of them, b) best prospects available when we are drafting will almost certainly be players in positions which we desperately need to strengthen i.e. small forwards and power forwards. Again, I don't buy the argument that you need 5 years before your young player can play well. We've seen players in the last 3 years making an impact even in their rookie year that would probably elevate us to a new level had it been here. Some of the players who got drafted in 2012-2013 have now been stars for a couple of years or more. If you integrate them properly and they show the potential from the beginning, playing in an environment like Portland where you can get minutes and develop in your best position could quickly unleash the potential in them.

3) Try to flog our high contracts to become a player in free agency and move for players like James Johnson who would maybe consider us. Problem with that is that you would probably need to move 4-5 contracts to do that and you need to find someone who will take those deals. You will also likely find buyers for the better players first, but then could be left with the terrible ones and still no cap space. This is IMO as good as gone opportunity.

4) Try to pretend that players like Crabbe, Turner and Leonard have value across the league and swap them for players who will be more fit for our needs. Again, I doubt this can happen. Crabbe on $8M a year would be easily tradeable. Crabbe at $20M a year is not.

People have come up with solutions like 'trade CJ for PG13' which is basically a one-year rental that could put you in even deeper shit after that year when George inevitably leaves. Unless we manage to truly hit the jackpot, Nurkic like, three times in a row, we won't be competing for championship next year or the year after. It's about putting ourselves in position to compete when it's possible, not making panic moves to maybe get 3-5 more wins next season and then be in even more shit.
In reference to #3: Why can't we attach the hard to move contracts 1st?

If SAC is willing to give something for Harkless, why can't we trade them Turner as well, as their price to pay for Harkless?

They need young talent, and won't have their 2019 1st. They have tons of cap space, but no one will want to go there, so money doesn't matter. Turner won't hurt them in the long run, so why not accept that? They might even be willing to take Meyers/Davis as well
 
Carmello for Crabbe would be pretty money for both teams tbh. Melo needs out of a big market.

He probably goes to clippers though when the lose Blake Griffin. I bet Dwayne wade ends up there too. And maybe LeBron in 3 years.
Griffin will leave, then the Bulls will trade for Melo, subsequently trying to sign CP3 to complete 3/4 of the wonder group (LBJ, Wade, Melo, CP3).

I could also see the Mavs trading Barnes and their pick to get Wade and Melo, and then trying to land CP3 and/or Lebron.

I don't think Paul stays though. I could see NOP trading 2 future 1sts to SAC to get them to take on all their salary except for Cousins, Davis, and anyone making less than $2M. Paul returning to New Orleans to join that frontcourt would be very interesting.
 
Olshey has to get to work and find trades for Crabbe, Turner, Aminu etc. No high hopes for Meyers, he is honestly a waste of money. I'm sure he wouldn't find a place even in DLeague.

Crabbe+a pick for Courtney Lee and O'Quinn?

Maybe we can manage to sell "this 2nd best 3% in the league" and get something decent. Even in this forum I have seen many people buying that. They didn't care he only makes 1.4 threes which is far from elite. I prefer a 38% shooter that is aggressive and can get me 12-13 pts than a 45% shooter that only shoots when wide open and cannot create himself. It really doesn't make a difference if you only need the perfect setup to score. And I could stomach your uselessness if you could at least defend, pass or rebound the ball.

So much money wasted last summer. Fucking disaster.
It has been. I said this last offseason, and people on this board were cussing at me for asking of Neil's seat should be warming up after making all these bad moves. Of course, Paul Allen must have okayed them, but many saw long ago that these were bad moves. It's not just 20/20 hindsight.

Some Neil apologists like Denny Crane spent the whole year trying to convince people they were good moves, "keeping assets", but I think it's clear now the the vast majority of the fanbase what utter HORSESHIT that is.
 
In reference to #3: Why can't we attach the hard to move contracts 1st?

If SAC is willing to give something for Harkless, why can't we trade them Turner as well, as their price to pay for Harkless?

They need young talent, and won't have their 2019 1st. They have tons of cap space, but no one will want to go there, so money doesn't matter. Turner won't hurt them in the long run, so why not accept that? They might even be willing to take Meyers/Davis as well

We can but them it's a net zero change for us really, isn't it? We don't get anything of value back, we get rid of one player that doesn't help us but need to send someone/something that does help us in order to do that. It might work but is a bit desperate IMO. Under no circumstances would I attach a pick to get rid of contract, we are not in position where it makes sense. People suggested offering someone ours or Memphis pick to offload Leonard which is absolutely crazy.
 
Nobody will take garbage like Crabbe, Harkless, Meyers or Turner without sending back equally bad players on long contracts. Without attaching draft picks to move contracts, you are just swapping crap. Expect Brandon Knight, Joakim Noah, Asik, Chandler Parsons and Ian Mahinmi to be the level of player available.
 
I see Durant says we need a wing with some length who can handle the ball. And obviously who can shoot. Who the hell like that is available?

I keep looking at Aminu, Harkless and Turner; three guys being asked to shoot threes and isn't it becoming obvious that none of the three is ever going to be a consistent three point shooter? Because of that we basically play 2 against 5 on offense.
Either at least two of them need to go (and it would be Turner and Harkless for me) or we need to play a different system.
 
I see Durant says we need a wing with some length who can handle the ball. And obviously who can shoot. Who the hell like that is available?

I keep looking at Aminu, Harkless and Turner; three guys being asked to shoot threes and isn't it becoming obvious that none of the three is ever going to be a consistent three point shooter? Because of that we basically play 2 against 5 on offense.
Either at least two of them need to go (and it would be Turner and Harkless for me) or we need to play a different system.

I took that as a passive aggressive jab at us for not drafting him.

A wing with size who can shoot you say? Lol
 
2017 offseason plans? The first order of business to recreate this billboard with Meyers, Turner and Crabbe.

wallpaper_20081208075103_4862254822.jpg
Haha! I see what you did there. ;)
 
Another thing. There is absolutely no reason to keep Crabbe because we don't really use him. He averages about 8 field goal attempts a game. I just don't believe that this is due to him being not assertive enough. He was the go-to guy on his college team. He is very active out there. But when Lillard drives he is often so focused on getting to the basket, he really doesn't see anyone to pass too. And I understand this is maybe right; other teams focus on him so much that he needs to do everything perfect as he approaches the basket. It's more or less the same with CJ, he has to focus so much on his moves that he doesn't see anyone. I understand that these guys are our most competent and efficient scorers. But if you don't get everyone involved regularly they will never become competent efficient scorers. Did you see Draymond Green driving a couple times; he got close enough to the basket while being guarded by our undersized guys that he could have easily thrown it in, but he chose to pass to open three point shooters. (yeh, yeh, I understand these are proven three point shooters).
Anyway back to Crabbe. He often runs a little route around the outside and then circles towards the basket. He often gets a full yard ahead of his guy, but he never gets the ball. Often it seems it is a bad angle between him and Damon but could it also be Damon is pretty short (as is our entire team; how the hell did that happen?!!)
But to reiterate; we haven't found a way to use Crabbe in all these years, so let's trade him. I think there must be a team out there that realizes he can be utilized better.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top