Switchability

[PtldPlatypus]

We've talked for years about having a roster full of versatile, switchable wings/forwards that minimize deficiencies and reduce the impact of mismatches. Was last night evidence that we finally actually have (a slightly short version of) what we've been calling for? Hart, Winslow, Sharpe, Nas, Grant all seem to be able to fill multiple roles and offer tons of lineup configurations. Keon and Walker didn't play, but they have the potential to offer similar value, and GPII and Watford should fit into that group as well when available.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

We've talked for years about having a roster full of versatile, switchable wings/forwards that minimize deficiencies and reduce the impact of mismatches. Was last night evidence that we finally actually have (a slightly short version of) what we've been calling for? Hart, Winslow, Sharpe, Nas, Grant all seem to be able to fill multiple roles and offer tons of lineup configurations. Keon and Walker didn't play, but they have the potential to offer similar value, and GPII and Watford should fit into that group as well when available.

But Joe sells snake oil, screwed the pooch on his main trade and made us worse!!!!!

 

[illmatic99]

I am cautious about projecting too much about that lineup after only seeing them against the Kings who kinda just imploded with stupid decision making down the stretch. There were a few instances where Dame/Ant ended up behind Sabonis and the Kings' guards couldn't get him the ball.

 

[Hoopguru]

But Joe sells snake oil, screwed the pooch on his main trade and made us worse!!!!!

If hart plays like that all year he alone was worth the CJ trade.

 

[Hoopguru]

We've talked for years about having a roster full of versatile, switchable wings/forwards that minimize deficiencies and reduce the impact of mismatches. Was last night evidence that we finally actually have (a slightly short version of) what we've been calling for? Hart, Winslow, Sharpe, Nas, Grant all seem to be able to fill multiple roles and offer tons of lineup configurations. Keon and Walker didn't play, but they have the potential to offer similar value, and GPII and Watford should fit into that group as well when available.

And its appears we may have both forward positions able to score off the dribble which we haven't seen for a while.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I am cautious about projecting too much about that lineup after only seeing them against the Kings who kinda just imploded with stupid decision making down the stretch. There were a few instances where Dame/Ant ended up behind Sabonis and the Kings' guards couldn't get him the ball.

Understood. There's a reason I used the word "evidence" rather than "proof".

 

[illmatic99]

Understood. There's a reason I used the word "evidence" rather than "proof".

i also wish they were all like an inch taller. Hart especially. Dude does so much with his frame just because he has a nose for the ball. Imagine if he were a legit 6'6 with a 7' winspan and his tenacity/skill, he'd be a 20 mil+ player.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

If hart plays like that all year he alone was worth the CJ trade.

im not being over the top i dont think in saying that Platy brings up possibly the most significant impact this team can have to improve throughout the season. Switchability only works well when players are locked in with one another. Player hesitation, spacing and placement can break the defense down instantly. So what platy is touching on i feel is the biggest reason we have high hopes of significant improvement to become a playoff team and possible a good one with a consolidation trade for at star a the deadline.
As the players and coaches learn more aBout each other i fully expect this to improve

Sorry, but bye Nurk. We need a mobile center that fits better with this vastly improved switchability we have.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

i also wish they were all like an inch taller. Hart especially. Dude does so much with his frame just because he has a nose for the ball. Imagine if he were a legit 6'6 with a 7' winspan and his tenacity/skill, he'd be a 20 mil+ player.

And then we never would have been able to get him. And I think the same could be said of all the guys in the OP.

• 6'10" Jerami Grant? All-star.
• 6'7" Justise Winslow? Likely never leaves Miami
• 6'7" Nassir Little? Probably starts at UNC, doesn't drop to us.
• 6'7" Shaedon Sharpe? Slots in at SF, maybe Indy takes him over Mathurin.

I tend the think that the reason we have all the players mentioned in the OP is that they're just an inch or two shorter than they should be in order to be top-notch in their roles.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

And then we never would have been able to get him. And I think the same could be said of all the guys in the OP.

• 6'10" Jerami Grant? All-star.
• 6'7" Justise Winslow? Likely never leaves Miami
• 6'7" Nassir Little? Probably starts at UNC, doesn't drop to us.
• 6'7" Shaedon Sharpe? Slots in at SF, maybe Indy takes him over Mathurin.

I tend the think that the reason we have all the players mentioned in the OP is that they're just an inch or two shorter than they should be in order to be top-notch in their roles.

So if Joe would just invest in one of these, we are championship bound?

 

[BankTeller]

i also wish they were all like an inch taller. Hart especially. Dude does so much with his frame just because he has a nose for the ball. Imagine if he were a legit 6'6 with a 7' winspan and his tenacity/skill, he'd be a 20 mil+ player.

My guess is he can/may likely be playing himself into a $20+m/yr contract this season anyway even at his size.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

My guess is he can/may likely be playing himself into a $20+m/yr contract this season anyway even at his size.

They should skimp on the center position and pay Hart to be honest. Do what Toronto has done and just continue to collect really good wings and figure out the PT later.

 

[PCmor7]

And then we never would have been able to get him. And I think the same could be said of all the guys in the OP.

• 6'10" Jerami Grant? All-star.
• 6'7" Justise Winslow? Likely never leaves Miami
• 6'7" Nassir Little? Probably starts at UNC, doesn't drop to us.
• 6'7" Shaedon Sharpe? Slots in at SF, maybe Indy takes him over Mathurin.

I tend the think that the reason we have all the players mentioned in the OP is that they're just an inch or two shorter than they should be in order to be top-notch in their roles.

I agree with your first two examples, but Nas not starting at UNC wasn't because of his height and Sharpe didn't drop to us because of an inch in height.

 

[blazerfan11]

I am cautious about projecting too much about that lineup after only seeing them against the Kings who kinda just imploded with stupid decision making down the stretch. There were a few instances where Dame/Ant ended up behind Sabonis and the Kings' guards couldn't get him the ball.

Stupid decision-making is common in the NBA.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

After all the "Nurk and Simons are killing us" talk, I just keep coming back to this thread here. It's a long season, and they're not even tradeable yet anyway, but I just can't help but think that if those two could be swapped out for guys who fit better into this switchability mold--a bigger guard and a more mobile big--we could really have something here.

 

[B-Roy]

After all the "Nurk and Simons are killing us" talk, I just keep coming back to this thread here. It's a long season, and they're not even tradeable yet anyway, but I just can't help but think that if those two could be swapped out for guys who fit better into this switchability mold--a bigger guard and a more mobile big--we could really have something here.

Sharpe is a starter in waiting. If we could somehow trade Simons + Nurk and upgrade the center position (Ayton?), that would do wonders for the team.

But I don't think Simons is getting traded this season. They are going to give it at least one full season with Dame/Ant to see if it can work.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Sharpe is a starter in waiting. If we could somehow trade Simons + Nurk and upgrade the center position (Ayton?), that would do wonders for the team.

But I don't think Simons is getting traded this season. They are going to give it at least one full season with Dame/Ant to see if it can work.

Agreed on all counts. Still, I can't help but think about it.

Given that Vucevic is heading into a free agent year, I wonder if they would be interested in a center swap. Would Nurk/Simons for Vuc/Caruso and our pick back be a ridiculous overpay given their ages and skillsets?

 

[B-Roy]

Agreed on all counts. Still, I can't help but think about it.

Given that Vucevic is heading into a free agent year, I wonder if they would be interested in a center swap. Would Nurk/Simons for Vuc/Caruso and our pick back be a ridiculous overpay given their ages and skillsets?

View attachment 51169

What the fuck please no. Vucevic is a disaster on defense. Worst pick and roll big defender in the league by the stats. Caruso and Payton are duplicate players.

The only center out there that I would be open to is Ayton, but Ant would need to go to a third team, or CP could retire, lul.

 

[Blazinaway]

What the fuck please no. Vucevic is a disaster on defense. Worst pick and roll big defender in the league by the stats. Caruso and Payton are duplicate players.

The only center out there that I would be open to is Ayton, but Ant would need to go to a third team, or CP could retire, lul.

Hartenstein is the guy I'd target, likely getable for a reasonable price

 

[Cugel]

The market for Nurk has to be practically non-existent; I think Dame wanted him re-signed. Seriously, what team would want Nurk and his contract? He is worth 10 a year max.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Hartenstein is the guy I'd target, likely getable for a reasonable price

Knicks just signed him with their MLE. He's 4th on that team in minutes, has started 1/3 of their games (due to Robinson's injury issues), and is contributing well. What makes you think he'd be available?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

What the fuck please no. Vucevic is a disaster on defense. Worst pick and roll big defender in the league by the stats. Caruso and Payton are duplicate players.

The only center out there that I would be open to is Ayton, but Ant would need to go to a third team, or CP could retire, lul.

Can't imagine why Phoenix would be interested in dealing Ayton though. Seems like they're doing pretty OK, and now they've got him locked up for 4 years. But y'know, maybe they regret re-signing him and want to get out of the deal...

 

[B-Roy]

Can't imagine why Phoenix would be interested in dealing Ayton though. Seems like they're doing pretty OK, and now they've got him locked up for 4 years. But y'know, maybe they regret re-signing him and want to get out of the deal...

View attachment 51170

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4278129/deandre-ayton

Check his stats, he's not exactly lighting it up this year. Their fanbase is mostly out on Ayton, and Ayton has a history of issues with the Suns franchise.

But regardless, I'm mostly saying this is the type of player I would trade for from our side, not necessarily saying the Suns would. Just looking up and down the centers in the NBA, besides the obvious ones, there's no one else I really think is an upgrade besides Ayton and maybe Turner/Poeltl.

 

[HansenYang]

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4278129/deandre-ayton

Check his stats, he's not exactly lighting it up this year. Their fanbase is mostly out on Ayton, and Ayton has a history of issues with the Suns franchise.

But regardless, I'm mostly saying this is the type of player I would trade for from our side, not necessarily saying the Suns would. Just looking up and down the centers in the NBA, besides the obvious ones, there's no one else I really think is an upgrade besides Ayton and maybe Turner/Poeltl.

Ayton is a SLIGHT upgrade over Nurk, but also 2x the money.
On a contribution/cost evaluation - Nurk is the better value.

 

[B-Roy]

Ayton is a SLIGHT upgrade over Nurk, but also 2x the money.
On a contribution/cost evaluation - Nurk is the better value.

Disagree but it's all hypothetical anyways.

Fit is important and a center that plays effective rim and switching defense and finishes everything at the rim is the ideal center on this team. Like if we could somehow get Poeltl I'd be super stoked as well.

 

[OneSport3]

Sharpe is a starter in waiting. If we could somehow trade Simons + Nurk and upgrade the center position (Ayton?), that would do wonders for the team.

But I don't think Simons is getting traded this season. They are going to give it at least one full season with Dame/Ant to see if it can work.

Simons AND Nurk for Ayton is a HUGE overpay.

And if you think watching Nurk is frustrating, you’re just going to get more of the same from Ayton. There is a reason why the Suns didn’t really want him back and why the Nets didn’t want him in any KD trade discussions.

 

[B-Roy]

If you want something to be concerned about, our starting line up which has played the most minutes as a 5 man lineup BY FAR has a negative net rating:

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?slug=advanced&TeamID=1610612757

And it's not even like a little bit of a negative. It's -5.8. 111.6 ORTG and 117.4 DRTG. Our overall offensive rating is 111.9 and our DRTG is 109.4. So it's on par with our league average offense and significantly worse than our top 10 overall defense.

Our next most used comp is the starting line up, but with Eubanks instead of Nurkic. The DRTG is worse by one point, but the ORTG skyrockets from 111.6 to 125.7. Makes sense, Eubanks is objectively a worse defender, but the offense skyrockets. Probably he doesn't throw dumbass passes and he finishes everything at the rim that he gets.

Now it's early, but this is something I'm actively monitoring for the rest of the season.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

If you want something to be concerned about, our starting line up which has played the most minutes as a 5 man lineup BY FAR has a negative net rating:

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?slug=advanced&TeamID=1610612757

And it's not even like a little bit of a negative. It's -5.8. 111.6 ORTG and 117.4 DRTG. Our overall offensive rating is 111.9 and our DRTG is 109.4. So it's on par with our league average offense and significantly worse than our top 10 overall defense.

Our next most used comp is the starting line up, but with Eubanks instead of Nurkic. The DRTG is worse by one point, but the ORTG skyrockets from 111.6 to 125.7. Makes sense, Eubanks is objectively a worse defender, but the offense skyrockets. Probably he doesn't throw dumbass passes and he finishes everything at the rim that he gets.

Now it's early, but this is something I'm actively monitoring for the rest of the season.

That's interesting.

 

[BankTeller]

Can't imagine why Phoenix would be interested in dealing Ayton though. Seems like they're doing pretty OK, and now they've got him locked up for 4 years. But y'know, maybe they regret re-signing him and want to get out of the deal...

View attachment 51170

Ehh, I think I’m good. Ayton is a nice player, but on a max contract?

I’d rather deal for Turner, and I really don’t want to deal for Turner.

Seems like the best move these days is to find and develop your own starting C.

 

[wizenheimer]

Ehh, I think I’m good. Ayton is a nice player, but on a max contract?

I’d rather deal for Turner, and I really don’t want to deal for Turner.

Seems like the best move these days is to find and develop your own starting C.

or simply go shopping in the discount bin...the MLE & less big-man market

in this new NBA, I don't think there is a position group a team should spend less on than C, especially traditional C's