Tank for Wembanyama

[Mediocre Man]

It feels to me that the casual fans I talk to are the one most comfortable trading Dame vs the die-hard NBA people who get how difficult it is to replace/fill the void of a top 75 all-time player.

A top 75 player that can’t put a team on his back to advance deep into the playoffs consistently. He’s an undersized ball dominant guard who plays zero defense

 

[tykendo]

We traded Drexler and were back in the WCF in just a few years. And that Drexler trade was fucking awful.

The team that traded Clyde for used up Otis Thorpe was a completely different roster when they got to the WCF. Trader Bob had gone to the merry band of mercenaries by then. Banged up , hanging in there , Arvydas Sabonis from the 1995-96 season and Jermaine O'Neal were the only drafted key contributors to those teams. It's not like that team was made up of homegrown talent.

 

[Tince]

We traded Drexler and were back in the WCF in just a few years. And that Drexler trade was fucking awful.

The CBA is a lot different than it was 3 decade ago. Can't rebuild the way Paul/Trader Bob did back then.

 

[Natebishop3]

The team that traded Clyde for used up Otis Thorpe was a completely different roster when they got to the WCF. Trader Bob had gone to the merry band of mercenaries by then. Banged up , hanging in there , Arvydas Sabonis from the 1995-96 season and Jermaine O'Neal were the only drafted key contributors to those teams. It's not like that team was made up of homegrown talent.

That's all irrelevant. We dealt a top 75 player and completely rebuilt the team and went young. We acquired Rider, Sheed, Briant Grant, Kenny Anderson, and Alvin Williams. We blew up the Clyde/Terry/Kersey team and completely started over, and that's what we need to do now.

 

[Natebishop3]

The CBA is a lot different than it was 3 decade ago. Can't rebuild the way Paul/Trader Bob did back then.

And we could get a hell of a lot more for Dame than we got for Clyde. That's not the point. The point is that sometimes it's better to move on.

 

[Tince]

A top 75 player that can’t put a team on his back to advance deep into the playoffs consistently. He’s an undersized ball dominant guard who plays zero defense

No player outside of top 5 all-timers could ride Harkless, Aminu, and Kanter to the NBA finals.

And for all the negative qualities you listed, he's still highly likely to be better than anyone else currently on the roster or who we draft in the next decade.

 

[Tince]

And we could get a hell of a lot more for Dame than we got for Clyde. That's not the point. The point is that sometimes it's better to move on.

And sometimes it's better to stick with what you've got. Glad that we've cleared up those two possibilities!

 

[wizenheimer]

We traded Drexler and were back in the WCF in just a few years. And that Drexler trade was fucking awful.

completely different CBA back then. Not the trade restrictions of today, and almost no limits on signing players. And that was back in the days when PA was spending like crazy. Genesis of SPAM

 

[blazerkor]

I think if we land Wemby at #1 then it actually will keep Dame here. At that point we've secured our future with Shae and Wemby. So we can then address our present because Shae and Wemby will contribute immediately and even more down the road.

We would then be able to guarantee the Bulls either the 23rd pick in this draft or an unprotected first next year... then trade up to 4 first round picks Ant and Nurk to get a second established all star and improve the bench. We could re-sign Jerami solidifying our starting lineup, re-sign Matisse further building our bench. We could take an upperclassman with the 43rd pick to fill a whole on the bench and use the TPMLE to fill another hole on the bench.

I'm not saying that if we land the number one pick that we can't go into a total youth rebuild what I'm saying is that the number one pick seems to be the only one we could keep and still satisfy Dame which would therefore mean being in win now mode... like the David Robinson Spurs.

 

[wizenheimer]

And we could get a hell of a lot more for Dame than we got for Clyde. That's not the point. The point is that sometimes it's better to move on.

Clyde asked to be traded; if he hadn't Portland would not have traded him

 

[blazerkor]

Clyde asked to be traded; if he hadn't Portland would not have traded him

This idea that we trade Dame when he desperately wants to stay is hilarious. We would have a terrible reputation. If we use both picks and that is not what Dame wanted then the team could trade him while seemingly respecting him and he could get traded while claiming he wanted to finish his career here. That works but if he's cool with the direction the team is headed and the team trades him anyway it will be a PR nightmare.

 

[Mediocre Man]

No player outside of top 5 all-timers could ride Harkless, Aminu, and Kanter to the NBA finals.

And for all the negative qualities you listed, he's still highly likely to be better than anyone else currently on the roster or who we draft in the next decade.

At scoring

 

[BIG Q]

Dame is set to make $250 mil in the next four seasons. That contract is virtually untradable. He knew that when his agent asked for the extension. This is all so silly. Play out the ping pong balls. That was the goal the last month. That is the path.

 

[Tince]

At scoring

One of his many amazing qualities

 

[blazerkor]

Dame is set to make $250 mil in the next four seasons. That contract is virtually untradable. He knew that when his agent asked for the extension. This is all so silly. Play out the ping pong balls. That was the goal the last month. That is the path.

The goal the last two months was to get the best asset possible out of the draft. I think Joe saying that sometimes you have to live with the risk that you might be trading a 19 year old that could be great down the road is something you have to do sometimes, means that if it's not Wemby, the pick is on its way out. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I can tell you this though, you are wrong if you think Dame after what he did this season is untradable. The guy is very tradable but I think that the first option that Joe will explore is how to keep Dame here and happy... and the only way to do that is to get us much much closer to contention than we have been basically in Dame's entire career.

 

[Tince]

Dame is set to make $250 mil in the next four seasons. That contract is virtually untradable. He knew that when his agent asked for the extension. This is all so silly. Play out the ping pong balls. That was the goal the last month. That is the path.

Dame makes $4m/year more than Ruby Gobert, who got traded for young talent and a bunch of firsts just a year ago. No clue how you could call him untradable.

 

[Tince]

The goal the last two months was to get the best asset possible out of the draft. I think Joe saying that sometimes you have to live with the risk that you might be trading a 19 year old that could be great down the road is something you have to do sometimes, means that if it's not Wemby, the pick is on its way out. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I can tell you this though, you are wrong if you think Dame after what he did this season is untradable. The guy is very tradable but I think that the first option that Joe will explore is how to keep Dame here and happy... and the only way to do that is to get us much much closer to contention than we have been basically in Dame's entire career.

Yes, exactly!

Look at your assets, look at what you can get for your assets, and then make the best deal(s) possible. No need to be set on a fixed outcome of Dame having to be traded or having to play the next 5 years in Portland.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

It feels to me that the casual fans I talk to are the one most comfortable trading Dame vs the die-hard NBA people who get how difficult it is to replace/fill the void of a top 75 all-time player.

I don't see that at all. A large portion of posters here have made comments that's their ok with trading Dame, and everyone here I'd call a die hard fan.

Personally I'm ok keeping Dame as well as trading him. I just want either direction executed well. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc follow up moves need to be long term good decisions with a balanced risk/reward profile.

Trading or not trading Dame isn't a failure or success on its own. There are many ways to screw up either direction or have success with either direction.

 

[Tince]

I don't see that at all. A large portion of posters here have made comments that's their ok with trading Dame, and everyone here I'd call a die hard fan.

Personally I'm ok keeping Dame as well as trading him. I just want either direction executed well. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc follow up moves need to be long term good decisions with a balanced risk/reward profile.

Trading or not trading Dame isn't a failure or success on its own. There are many ways to screw up either direction or have success with either direction.

I very much agree with the last part in doing what's best for the franchise and that trading or not trading Dame isn't going to be enough to compete.

What I find odd is the a lot of "die-hard" fans on here that are opening to trading Dame are the same ones who think ownership sucks, the GM sucks, and the coaching sucks. So they want to get rid of the best leader and player in the organization, and put all the faith in the hands of ownership/front office/coaching staff to maximize the return for Dame, then identify, acquire, develop, and retain young talent. That doesn't make any sense to me.

If I thought the organization was setup in a way that we could do all those things, I think I'd be much higher on the trade Dame camp. Then again, if the organization was successful in all three of those areas, Dame would already have a contender around him.

 

[Natebishop3]

I very much agree with the last part in doing what's best for the franchise and that trading or not trading Dame isn't going to be enough to compete.

What I find odd is the a lot of "die-hard" fans on here that are opening to trading Dame are the same ones who think ownership sucks, the GM sucks, and the coaching sucks. So they want to get rid of the best leader and player in the organization, and put all the faith in the hands of ownership/front office/coaching staff to maximize the return for Dame, then identify, acquire, develop, and retain young talent. That doesn't make any sense to me.

If I thought the organization was setup in a way that we could do all those things, I think I'd be much higher on the trade Dame camp. Then again, if the organization was successful in all three of those areas, Dame would already have a contender around him.

What’s the alternative? Wait for Jody to sell the team? Dame will only have high value for another couple or three years at most. We don’t have the luxury of time.

 

[Tince]

What’s the alternative? Wait for Jody to sell the team? Dame will only have high value for another couple or three years at most. We don’t have the luxury of time.

I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not, but I'll answer it assuming it is:

The alternative to trading Dame is not trading Dame and capitalizing on his talents, leadership, loyalty, and potential recruiting ability. It appears you put little value in what Dame brings to the franchise and only see the value he could net in a trade. It's possible Sharpe and Ant's trade value is at its highest right now too, but that doesn't automatically mean they should be traded in my opinion.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

 

[BonesJones]

No, the Blazers won't trade the #1 pick and even Dame realizes that despite Wembanyama being young, he's also very good and can make a big difference now.

Getting the #1 pick allows the Blazers to play both timelines to the fullest extent. It solves many issues at once.

 

[BonesJones]

What’s the alternative? Wait for Jody to sell the team? Dame will only have high value for another couple or three years at most. We don’t have the luxury of time.

A ton of rebuilds have had nothing but time and never gotten off the ground. Getting a top 10 player that wants to be in Portland is extremely difficult. Most teams need years to have enough chances at draft and development to get obtain one. These who want to trade Dame to find a window with more time overestimate the chances of finding another Dame-caliber player in that span. And even if that's accomplished, who's to say that won't be a team that makes a couple 2nd rounds and a WCF and that's all?

Youth can be good. This team is built to improve by internal development for the first time in ages. They have more assets to swing a big win-now trade than they've had in maybe a decade. That "alternative" isn't as bad as it's made out to be.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I very much agree with the last part in doing what's best for the franchise and that trading or not trading Dame isn't going to be enough to compete.

What I find odd is the a lot of "die-hard" fans on here that are opening to trading Dame are the same ones who think ownership sucks, the GM sucks, and the coaching sucks. So they want to get rid of the best leader and player in the organization, and put all the faith in the hands of ownership/front office/coaching staff to maximize the return for Dame, then identify, acquire, develop, and retain young talent. That doesn't make any sense to me.

If I thought the organization was setup in a way that we could do all those things, I think I'd be much higher on the trade Dame camp. Then again, if the organization was successful in all three of those areas, Dame would already have a contender around him.

Yes you do have a valid point, it's definitely a concern of mine that Cronin/Jody will screw up a Dame trade or the actions after. I'm not saying any of these two paths are ideal options. Ideally we'd have a different owner who would hire a good experienced GM. But that ideal option appears extremely unlikely in the next year or two.

So we're left with two possibly shitty options we have to choose of below average execution in win now moves with Dame or below average moves trading Dame and rebuilding.

The big advantage of going young and rebuilding, even if the moves are poorly executed, is the team should have more talent and draft picks in the future for good management to come on board and then later possibly build a contender.

If the team does a bunch of terrible win now moves and ships out their future picks, they could dig this franchise into a hole that will take over a decade to dig out of.

I have argued the team could do a hybrid approach of rebuilding but keeping Dame on the roster. However Dames comments may indicate he won't accept that, and short of a magical trade offer becoming available that makes the Blazers an immediate contender in the next few months, would likely push me to the trade Dame camp.

Overall I'm most concerned the team makes stupid moves that drastically harm this franchise long term. Unfortunately I find that vastly more likely than the team executing great moves to build a contender soon.

 

[blazerkor]

A ton of rebuilds have had nothing but time and never gotten off the ground. Getting a top 10 player that wants to be in Portland is extremely difficult. Most teams need years to have enough chances at draft and development to get obtain one. These who want to trade Dame to find a window with more time overestimate the chances of finding another Dame-caliber player in that span. And even if that's accomplished, who's to say that won't be a team that makes a couple 2nd rounds and a WCF and that's all?

Youth can be good. This team is built to improve by internal development for the first time in ages. They have more assets to swing a big win-now trade than they've had in maybe a decade. That "alternative" isn't as bad as it's made out to be.

I like that people in here point to OKC as an example of a youth rebuild working... those dudes are maybe an 8 seed and maybe still in the lotto. That's the good example but then you have Houston and Detroit who have been in the tank for three or more seasons with no guarantee that they won't be in it again next season. I mean you have the Magic who look like they might have a team that might be able to maybe compete for a play-in spot next season and with the exception of two gentlemans' sweeps have basically been in youth rebuild mode for a fucking decade.

People don't trust Joe to put a competent team around Dame but trust him to start a much more dicey process. Kind of weird.

 

[Pinwheel1]

As more and more freshmen apply for the draft, I think the NY pick looks better and better. These young players will take n extra year to help a team, but a smart GM will know the value. Look at Amari Bailey who is projected to go at 52. That kid has a high ceiling IMO. I think trading that pick has more value this year than giving it to Chicago just so we can use next year's pick in a trade.

https://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

 

[Natebishop3]

As more and more freshmen apply for the draft, I think the NY pick looks better and better. These young players will take n extra year to help a team, but a smart GM will know the value. Look at Amari Bailey who is projected to go at 52. That kid has a high ceiling IMO. I think trading that pick has more value this year than giving it to Chicago just so we can use next year's pick in a trade.

https://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

Yeah I really don't want to just toss it to Chicago. I think it could have good value to help acquire talent immediately.

 

[wizenheimer]

Yeah I really don't want to just toss it to Chicago. I think it could have good value to help acquire talent immediately.

another factor is that the 23rd pick could be about a 4-year/13.5M rookie-scale contract starting next season. A chance at a prospect on a 3.3M/year deal is a worthwhile gamble. Also, if they choose right the Blazers would have a player they control for the next 7 seasons

that's some significant value to give up, especially for a team that has wasted 6 first round draft picks since 2016 and still owes Chicago a pick

 

[Tince]

A ton of rebuilds have had nothing but time and never gotten off the ground. Getting a top 10 player that wants to be in Portland is extremely difficult. Most teams need years to have enough chances at draft and development to get obtain one. These who want to trade Dame to find a window with more time overestimate the chances of finding another Dame-caliber player in that span. And even if that's accomplished, who's to say that won't be a team that makes a couple 2nd rounds and a WCF and that's all?

Youth can be good. This team is built to improve by internal development for the first time in ages. They have more assets to swing a big win-now trade than they've had in maybe a decade. That "alternative" isn't as bad as it's made out to be.

I agree with this.