Tank for Wembanyama (1 Viewer)

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

You're overrating their impact, IMO. If you use winshares as a gauge and look at what RoCo and Nance have given the Clippers and Pelicans:

RoCo + Nance = 9.3 winshares for 27M

Watford + Eubanks = 10.7 winshares for 4.3M

RoCo + Nance = 2.9M/winshare

Watford + Eubanks = 0.4M/winshare

and added context is that the Clippers/Pelicans have averaged several more wins over that time frame so there were more winshares to go around. The issue isn't what Portland received for RoCo/Nance, but what Olshey paid for them. The cost was the fucked up part of the equation
I personally didn't care about dumping RoCo at all. He was never going to re-sign here after the season. I was mostly pissed about dumping Norm for a pile of garbage.
 
I personally didn't care about dumping RoCo at all. He was never going to re-sign here after the season. I was mostly pissed about dumping Norm for a pile of garbage.

I get that

I just look at last season's trade deadline in a different manner. I don't separate the two trades, I look at them as parts of the same operation, and that includes adding Grant. Mainly it was the long overdue dismantling of the crappy dysfunctional roster. So in my mind it was CJ+Nance+Powell+RoCo for Grant+Hart+Eubanks+Winslow+2nd's. And yeah, the Hart part turned into Thybulle+Knox+Reddish+23rd pick. Eubanks may have been added in any event but it's doubtful if the Blazers hadn't dropped below the tax line

in other words, I kind of look at it as a year-long multi-part transaction where the Blazers traded those 4 players for
Grant+Eubanks+Winslow+Keon+2nd's+Thybulle+Knox+Reddish+23rd pick.

it's not great but it's not bad either. And I think it's pretty clear that at last season's trade deadline the Vulcans were driving the bus more than Cronin was

so, in terms of the Powell part of the trade I think he was just sunk cost from the mismanagement and malpractice by Olshey
*******************************************************************

I'm curious, so I decided to gauge the trades in/out by winshares

CJ 6.9 + Nance 5.3 + Powell 4.2 + RoCo 4.0 = 20.4 winshares @ 91M = 4.5M/winshare

Grant 4.1 + Hart 4.2 + Eubanks 6.4 + Winslow 0.6 +Thybulle 0.9 + Reddish 0.3 + Knox 0.1 = 16.6 winshares @ 44.8M = 2.7M/winshare

and that Blazer winshare number is skewed because the Blazers spent a lot of time tanking with thos players
 
You're overrating their impact, IMO. If you use winshares as a gauge and look at what RoCo and Nance have given the Clippers and Pelicans:

RoCo + Nance = 9.3 winshares for 27M

Watford + Eubanks = 10.7 winshares for 4.3M

RoCo + Nance = 2.9M/winshare

Watford + Eubanks = 0.4M/winshare

and added context is that the Clippers/Pelicans have averaged several more wins over that time frame so there were more winshares to go around. The issue isn't what Portland received for RoCo/Nance, but what Olshey paid for them. The cost was the fucked up part of the equation
The complaint when I said guys that gave their teams minutes or in Ariza's case his salary was used to match an acquired starter, were about the guys that we gave up along with the picks for the two role players that we eventually sent out for virtually nothing. I get why RoCo went for so little and why Nance was just an addendum in his deal (I would have called RoCo the same but we didn't get shit for Norm either)... I am still just livid that we gave up three FRPs for such minimal upgrades that we ended up just dumping.
 
Making the playoffs isn’t the same every year or for every team.

Squeaking into the playoffs for OKC, for instance, was probably a good thing because they’re on the rise.

OKC didn’t squeak into the playoffs. They lost to the Timberwolves. We were one of the youngest teams in the league this year, by the way. Does OKC have a better young player than Sharpe?
 
incomplete history....Blazers have had several top-5 picks, and four #1 picks

1971 2 Sidney Wicks
1972 1 LaRue Martin
1974 1 Bill Walton
1976 5 Wally Walker
1978 1 Mychal Thompson
1984 2 Sam Bowie
2006 4 Tyrus Thomas (↳CHI---> 2 LMA)
2007 1 Greg Oden

Walton got Portland it's only title. Mychal Thompson was a pretty good player....he actually averaged 21-12-4 one season; but he was never an all-star

LaRue Martin was a total bust and Portland's 1st big draft fuck-up:

1 LaRue Martin
2 Bob McAdoo
10 Paul Westphal
12 Julius Erving

Wally Walker at 5 was a big miss too:

5 POR Wally Walker
6
BUF Adrian Dantley
8 GSW Robert Parish
20 POR Major Jones
23
MIL Alex English
29 SEA Dennis Johnson
I know, thought about that after i already did post. Knew LaRue was truly the 1st, and Bill came after. But i guess i give the Blazers Mgmt. a break for LaRue, because soon after they got Bill and we all know how that turned out. But wear the real Big Man mess up began was with the Bowie pick. Then the Blazers not having deep medical info on Oden was second. So hoping , if we get lucky, Wemby is the charm.
 
OKC didn’t squeak into the playoffs. They lost to the Timberwolves. We were one of the youngest teams in the league this year, by the way. Does OKC have a better young player than Sharpe?
SGA is expected to be 1st team All NBA. Williams had a tremendous rookie season & we'll see next year what Chet brings... big upside there.

Outside of Ant Sharpe and Matise, what young Trailblazers do you think have a real shot at being part of a good team's rotation?

STOMP
 
Last edited:
I’ll put it to you this way:

I’m more excited for the draft then I was for the playoffs with Stottsy.
Wow. More excited than to be in the playoffs? A draft pick? You can have that shit.
 
Wow. More excited than to be in the playoffs? A draft pick? You can have that shit.

We would've gotten dog-walked in the playoffs. Not very exciting. No potential to change the direction of the franchise.

There is a reason the Mavs intentionally missed even trying for the playoffs.

Making the playoffs as the 7th / 8th seed in my opinion just isn't that exciting with the current direction of the franchise.
 
OKC didn’t squeak into the playoffs. They lost to the Timberwolves. We were one of the youngest teams in the league this year, by the way. Does OKC have a better young player than Sharpe?

They made it to the "play-in". They could've easily did what we did and went fishing for a top pick. They didn't do that.

And yes, he's known as "SGA".
 
OKC didn’t squeak into the playoffs. They lost to the Timberwolves. We were one of the youngest teams in the league this year, by the way. Does OKC have a better young player than Sharpe?
They both had injury issues last year AND yes, you need depth. But it's easier to address "depth" when you have two of the best players in the NBA already.

We don't have 1 player on the caliber of a (healthy) AD or Lebron, let alone 2.

And if you say Dame, you can save it.

AD, on the rare occasions he's healthy, can impact the game on BOTH ends of the floor MASSIVELY.

And even if I granted you Dame was "on that level" (although both of those players are so super defensively, I'll be lenient), we are FAR, FAR, FAR away from having a 2nd player at that level.
 
I'm much more invested in the May 16th ping pong balls than many years of doomed to lose playoffs.
The last time I had some optimism (albeit not alot) when the Blazers hit the playoffs, Aldridge was on the team. They've clearly been undermanned ever since. Finally firing Soapy gave me at least a glimmer of hope that they might not continue to be mismanaged and somewhere down the line they could become relevant again.

What happens with the ping pong balls 5/16 will of course be of note, but other then winning the VW lotto it will be telling what they decide to do afterwords. Failing to get #1, I'm completely open to being blown away by a lopsided trade in PDXs favor that vaults them into contention, but without dealing Dame or SS it seems very unlikely that they can just reshuffle their underwhelming deck to hold a winning hand in 2023-4. The surround me with a contending level vet cast now line Dame has drawn in the sand seems unattainable without dealing Shaedon and no one wants to see that happen. Dame has to know this, but again I'm open to him orchestrating personnel moves that seem out of reach. My guess is that no such behind the scenes moves will be possible and Lillard will let management know he's open to a trade. The clock is ticking on Dame time & I won't fault him for wanting the opportunity to go out on top elsewhere.

STOMP
 
The last time I had some optimism (albeit not alot) when the Blazers hit the playoffs, Aldridge was on the team. They've clearly been undermanned ever since. Finally firing Soapy gave me at least a glimmer of hope that they might not continue to be mismanaged and somewhere down the line they could become relevant again.

What happens with the ping pong balls 5/16 will of course be of note, but other then winning the VW lotto it will be telling what they decide to do afterwords. Failing to get #1, I'm completely open to being blown away by a lopsided trade in PDXs favor that vaults them into contention, but without dealing Dame or SS it seems very unlikely that they can just reshuffle their underwhelming deck to hold a winning hand in 2023-4. The surround me with a contending level vet cast now line Dame has drawn in the sand seems unattainable without dealing Shaedon and no one wants to see that happen. Dame has to know this, but again I'm open to him orchestrating personnel moves that seem out of reach. My guess is that no such behind the scenes moves will be possible and Lillard will let management know he's open to a trade. The clock is ticking on Dame time & I won't fault him for wanting the opportunity to go out on top elsewhere.

I generally agree with you here, although when we had CJ and Dame, I always deluded myself into thinking they could both get hot in a series and we could beat anyone. One year I was kinda right, but otherwise... nope.

I'm not sure that even if we trade Sharpe that we'd be able to make a roster-shaking move that makes us contenders next year... as you are, I'm willing to be convinced but I just don't see it happening without adding a Dame-level player and another starter upgrade. I guess we'll see.
 
I'm not sure that even if we trade Sharpe that we'd be able to make a roster-shaking move that makes us contenders next year... as you are, I'm willing to be convinced but I just don't see it happening without adding a Dame-level player and another starter upgrade. I guess we'll see.
I'm not sure what Shaedon would bring in return. If Dame wants vets around him, someone on their rookie deal would have to be packaged with another higher salaried vet which could boost or deflate the talent coming back. I do think he has more value on the market then Ant though, higher ceiling. Failing winning the VW lotto, if they decide to build a contender around Lillard then hopefully they break their trend and don't half ass it. Push the chips into the middle and trade the pick, Ant and Shaedon for talent that fits. I think Grant and Matise both fit though Thybulle may be a 20-25 minute guy.

STOMP
 
Last edited:
How do we feel about Nurk and our filler guys (Nas, Knox, Watford, etc.) for Simmons and their PHX first.
 
How do we feel about Nurk and our filler guys (Nas, Knox, Watford, etc.) for Simmons and their PHX first.
I don't think we have enough filler to bridge the gap between Nurk and Simmons.
 
I don't think we have enough filler to bridge the gap between Nurk and Simmons.
If it is completed after the new league year Nurk (16.8), Nas (6.2), Knox (3), Keon (2.8) and Trendon (1.8) get us to 30.6M multiplied by 1.25 (or 125%) and you get 38.25... Simmons is at 37.9

That doesn't mean this is anything close to a good idea. I was about the Ben Simmons reclamation for a while but he's just become a bigger and bigger risk. Two years and 37.9 and 40.3 seems like it would be worth more than just the 21st pick in this draft. Maybe pick 21, the rights to pick 22 and a future first, let's say the second worst pick out of the three they will have in 2027. That might be enough to make the move even start to make sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RR7
SGA is expected to be 1st team All NBA. Williams had a tremendous rookie season & we'll see next year what Chet brings... big upside there.

Outside of Ant Sharpe and Matise, what young Trailblazers do you think have a real shot at being part of a good team's rotation?

STOMP
SGA is a 5 year vet, not a young up and comer.
 
If it is completed after the new league year Nurk (16.8), Nas (6.2), Knox (3), Keon (2.8) and Trendon (1.8) get us to 30.6M multiplied by 1.25 (or 125%) and you get 38.25... Simmons is at 37.9

That doesn't mean this is anything close to a good idea. I was about the Ben Simmons reclamation for a while but he's just become a bigger and bigger risk. Two years and 37.9 and 40.3 seems like it would be worth more than just the 21st pick in this draft. Maybe pick 21, the rights to pick 22 and a future first, let's say the second worst pick out of the three they will have in 2027. That might be enough to make the move even start to make sense.

I’m interested in the pick. Simmons can take another year off if he wants.
 
The question you asked was does OKC have a better young player then Shaedon? SGA is just 24 & obviously still getting better

STOMP
How about we limit it to players who could have qualified for the rising star game? Which would be rookie and sophomore players from 2023.

Then what would be the answer?
 
How about we limit it to players who could have qualified for the rising star game? Which would be rookie and sophomore players from 2023.

Then what would be the answer?
Their top pick didn’t play, so seems a bit disingenuous.
 
How about we limit it to players who could have qualified for the rising star game? Which would be rookie and sophomore players from 2023.

Then what would be the answer?
The other two Thunder players I mentioned previously. Williams had a tremendous rookie year (probably finishes 2nd in the ROY vote) and Chet has the potential of being an impact frontcourt player.

STOMP
 
You and every other person on this board should look up what it's taken in the past to take conditions off of picks. I've never seen anything more than conditional second round picks to guarantee the pick and oftentimes it's just cash (that's because you are literally guaranteeing a pick to a team with no guarantee of ever receiving it and making it a solid asset they can trade)... now that would be us sending a conditional second rounder so that the Bulls would be guaranteed to get our first rounder in the 2024 draft regardless of where it lands next season.

Joe was asked if he had a deal in place to fulfill our obligation to Chicago and he said that they have been in contact multiple times and that they have a good relationship, so that would't be a problem if they needed to free up future picks for a bigger deal. I do agree that the Knicks pick could do it but there's a rumor out there that it might just be the 5 second rounders that we picked up at the trade deadline to fulfill the entire obligation. The fact is that what we owe the Bulls won't get in the way of us having up to 5 first round picks to deal if we need to and three swaps... four swaps if it only took the second rounders to fulfill that Bulls obligation.

I didn't like the trade but if there has always been a mechanism in place to guarantee the pick, the deal got us Shaedon and the pick we end up with in this draft. So it wasn't necessarily all that dumb to make the pick conditional in the way they did. The dumb part about it is that we basically just had Nance as a throw in on one trade and RoCo as a throw in on another when the two of them cost us 3 FRPs and two guys who played serious bench minutes for the teams we traded them to.

it was a dumb way to make the trade, it’s tied our hands in making any future trades until the Chicago pick is done. Chicago has us over a barrel, they know we can’t make any big trades till the pick has been completed, so yeah they could potentially hold out and force us to give an additional asset again making this a shitty trade.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top