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Mediocre Man said:
It may. I’m just so over purgatory
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there are different forms of purgatory

Sacramento spent 16 straight seasons in lottery purgatory; Minnesota spent essentially 17 straight years in lottery purgatory when they appeared in the playoffs one time and won 1 game; Phoenix spent 10 straight seasons in the lottery; Golden State spent 17 of 18 straight years in the lottery

this belief some of you have that somehow the best path forward is trading Dame doesn't make sense to me. A couple of posters here who are the biggest advocates for it have admitted it probably means, at best, it would be 7-10 years before Portland could build a contender. The most realistic trade scenario I've seen, at least from the perspective of another team is Dame to Brooklyn for Ben Simmons, Claxton, and 3 or 4 first round pick 5-7 drafts from now. In other words, the Blazers probably fail to re-sign Grant, lock themselves into that worst kind of purgatory of late lottery picks and 1st round exits, and hope to land a couple of elite players, in the draft, in 2027-29 period, with the chance they will be veteran enough to contend by 2033

again though, there is really no realistic template for a team trading away their only elite franchise player and parlaying that trade package into a contending team
 
wizenheimer said:
there are different forms of purgatory

Sacramento spent 16 straight seasons in lottery purgatory; Minnesota spent essentially 17 straight years in lottery purgatory when they appeared in the playoffs one time and won 1 game; Phoenix spent 10 straight seasons in the lottery; Golden State spent 17 of 18 straight years in the lottery

this belief some of you have that somehow the best path forward is trading Dame doesn't make sense to me. A couple of posters here who are the biggest advocates for it have admitted it probably means, at best, it would be 7-10 years before Portland could build a contender. The most realistic trade scenario I've seen, at least from the perspective of another team is Dame to Brooklyn for Ben Simmons, Claxton, and 3 or 4 first round pick 5-7 drafts from now. In other words, the Blazers probably fail to re-sign Grant, lock themselves into that worst kind of purgatory of late lottery picks and 1st round exits, and hope to land a couple of elite players, in the draft, in 2027-29 period, with the chance they will be veteran enough to contend by 2033

again though, there is really no realistic template for a team trading away their only elite franchise player and parlaying that trade package into a contending team
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Some of us, including me, may not be around in 2033. I hope we're all still around, but longevity is not guaranteed. as much as we are saddened that the Schonz is gone. He got a pretty dog gone good run. Fingers crossed.
 
Did anyone catch his game on the nba app today? My God.

I only saw the first quarter and then caught highlights. He had one move where he did a drop step from like 15 feet out and finished with a lefty dunk. Totally and completly sold on him.

Also caught a fan in the stands a blazer shirt on. Need that energy!!
 
illmatic99 said:
Did anyone catch his game on the nba app today? My God.

I only saw the first quarter and then caught highlights. He had one move where he did a drop step from like 15 feet out and finished with a lefty dunk. Totally and completly sold on him.

Also caught a fan in the stands a blazer shirt on. Need that energy!!
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Yes indeed. Hopefully we can be this Gen's Spurs with Tim Duncan. Wemby and Dame could be a very special tandem.
 
BBert said:
I wish people would stop including Shae in trade scenarios. That would be the Blazers' dumbest move since drafting LaRue Martin over Bob McAdoo. And no team is going to send us someone like Imbiid, period.

(And before someone brings up Jordan, I said dumbest, not arguably worst. Bowie was the real deal, at a position of need, so not a dumb pick. Personally, I was worried about Bowie's injury history and I wanted the Blazers to pick the Round Mound of Rebound.)
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I wasn’t alive at the time but it kinda sounds like when we dumped Moses Malone.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I wasn’t alive at the time but it kinda sounds like when we dumped Moses Malone.
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Blazers said the reason, the only reason, they traded Malone was because they couldn't afford Walton, Lucas, and Malone at the same time. IIRC, Larry Weinberg was the majority owner at the time and he was not rich like Paul Allen. The NBA also didn't have media deals to defray payroll costs like they do today
 
wizenheimer said:
there are different forms of purgatory

Sacramento spent 16 straight seasons in lottery purgatory; Minnesota spent essentially 17 straight years in lottery purgatory when they appeared in the playoffs one time and won 1 game; Phoenix spent 10 straight seasons in the lottery; Golden State spent 17 of 18 straight years in the lottery

this belief some of you have that somehow the best path forward is trading Dame doesn't make sense to me. A couple of posters here who are the biggest advocates for it have admitted it probably means, at best, it would be 7-10 years before Portland could build a contender. The most realistic trade scenario I've seen, at least from the perspective of another team is Dame to Brooklyn for Ben Simmons, Claxton, and 3 or 4 first round pick 5-7 drafts from now. In other words, the Blazers probably fail to re-sign Grant, lock themselves into that worst kind of purgatory of late lottery picks and 1st round exits, and hope to land a couple of elite players, in the draft, in 2027-29 period, with the chance they will be veteran enough to contend by 2033

again though, there is really no realistic template for a team trading away their only elite franchise player and parlaying that trade package into a contending team
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A lot of people would've said similar things about Aldridge his last few years in PDX. If the Blazers had swapped him for a number of good draft picks and also improved their own pick, maybe there would've been a few more qualify starters on the roster with all those years of Dames prime and he'd already have a ring.

If the Blazers can contend in the next 3 years then keeping Dame makes sense. If they can't; then the talent as you say 7-10 years from now should be much higher if they trade Dame.

I'm fine not trading Dame right now. But I don't want the team shipping out lottery picks and future picks if the result isn't immediate contention. That would be mortgaging the Blazers future such as Sharpes prime years in a stupid gamble with no realistic upside.
 
wizenheimer said:
there are different forms of purgatory

Sacramento spent 16 straight seasons in lottery purgatory; Minnesota spent essentially 17 straight years in lottery purgatory when they appeared in the playoffs one time and won 1 game; Phoenix spent 10 straight seasons in the lottery; Golden State spent 17 of 18 straight years in the lottery

this belief some of you have that somehow the best path forward is trading Dame doesn't make sense to me. A couple of posters here who are the biggest advocates for it have admitted it probably means, at best, it would be 7-10 years before Portland could build a contender. The most realistic trade scenario I've seen, at least from the perspective of another team is Dame to Brooklyn for Ben Simmons, Claxton, and 3 or 4 first round pick 5-7 drafts from now. In other words, the Blazers probably fail to re-sign Grant, lock themselves into that worst kind of purgatory of late lottery picks and 1st round exits, and hope to land a couple of elite players, in the draft, in 2027-29 period, with the chance they will be veteran enough to contend by 2033

again though, there is really no realistic template for a team trading away their only elite franchise player and parlaying that trade package into a contending team
Click to expand...
I think if you trade Dame, you have to get at least a young bugging allstar and picks along with other players. I don’t know what team that is, which is why I say a player like Maxie. Young, stud, on a team that would like Dame….certainly there are others. You also have to get lucky, I get that too. You brought up Sacramento and their lottery woes. But Sacramento could have drafted


09 Curry/DeRozen over Evans
10. Cousins was fine
11. Kawhi/Klay over Biyombo
12. Dame over Robinson
13. Giannis over McLemore
14. Shitty draft…yuck
15. Booker over Cauley-Stein
16. No one
17. Fox was a good pick
18. 5-6 studs over Bagley

I feel, with Schmitz, we are in good hands draft wise. Maybe I just like the unknown better than what we already know? I know Dame is a shitty defender. I know Grant doesn’t rebound. I know Chauncey is way over his head. I know Ant is a chicken who doesn’t play defense. I know Nurk is an average center at best. I know, or at least am pretty damn sure that we don’t have a ton of assets to get better.

BUT….Maybe we get the 2nd pick and get Henderson, or whatever and he and Sharpe are a nice young backcourt? Maybe a young player like Barrett or whatever with those two become a nice 3?
I’ve rambled
 
Mediocre Man said:
I think if you trade Dame, you have to get at least a young bugging allstar and picks along with other players. I don’t know what team that is, which is why I say a player like Maxie. Young, stud, on a team that would like Dame….certainly there are others. You also have to get lucky, I get that too. You brought up Sacramento and their lottery woes. But Sacramento could have drafted


09 Curry/DeRozen over Evans
10. Cousins was fine
11. Kawhi/Klay over Biyombo
12. Dame over Robinson
13. Giannis over McLemore
14. Shitty draft…yuck
15. Booker over Cauley-Stein
16. No one
17. Fox was a good pick
18. 5-6 studs over Bagley

I feel, with Schmitz, we are in good hands draft wise. Maybe I just like the unknown better than what we already know? I know Dame is a shitty defender. I know Grant doesn’t rebound. I know Chauncey is way over his head. I know Ant is a chicken who doesn’t play defense. I know Nurk is an average center at best. I know, or at least am pretty damn sure that we don’t have a ton of assets to get better.

BUT….Maybe we get the 2nd pick and get Henderson, or whatever and he and Sharpe are a nice young backcourt? Maybe a young player like Barrett or whatever with those two become a nice 3?
I’ve rambled
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Biyombo was drafted by Charlotte.
 
Mediocre Man said:
I think if you trade Dame, you have to get at least a young bugging allstar and picks along with other players. I don’t know what team that is, which is why I say a player like Maxie. Young, stud, on a team that would like Dame….certainly there are others. You also have to get lucky, I get that too. You brought up Sacramento and their lottery woes. But Sacramento could have drafted


09 Curry/DeRozen over Evans
10. Cousins was fine
11. Kawhi/Klay over Biyombo
12. Dame over Robinson
13. Giannis over McLemore
14. Shitty draft…yuck
15. Booker over Cauley-Stein
16. No one
17. Fox was a good pick
18. 5-6 studs over Bagley

I feel, with Schmitz, we are in good hands draft wise. Maybe I just like the unknown better than what we already know? I know Dame is a shitty defender. I know Grant doesn’t rebound. I know Chauncey is way over his head. I know Ant is a chicken who doesn’t play defense. I know Nurk is an average center at best. I know, or at least am pretty damn sure that we don’t have a ton of assets to get better.

BUT….Maybe we get the 2nd pick and get Henderson, or whatever and he and Sharpe are a nice young backcourt? Maybe a young player like Barrett or whatever with those two become a nice 3?
I’ve rambled
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we've discussed the Maxey trade before. Setting aside the issue of trading Dame for a player who may actually be smaller, after years of Portland having a problem with a small backcourt....(and it's debatable if Maxey is a PG or a small SG)

the issue is Philly has only one draft pick to trade...their 2030 1st round pick

basically, the Blazers would be trading Dame for Tobias Harris, Maxey, and a 2030 first...that's a real shitty return for Dame, and it locks Portland into a purgatory....and you are tired of purgatory. If you like that kind of trade, then your desire is not for Portland to get better...it's just getting rid of Dame

that's the problem with trading Dame....the theory of trading Dame almost always crashes against the wall of what is realistically available
 
wizenheimer said:
we've discussed the Maxey trade before. Setting aside the issue of trading Dame for a player who may actually be smaller, after years of Portland having a problem with a small backcourt....

the issue is Philly has only one draft pick to trade...their 2030 1st round pick

basically, the Blazers would be trading Dame for Tobias Harris, Maxey, and a 2030 first...that's a real shitty return for Dame, and it locks Portland into a purgatory....and you are tired of purgatory. If you like that kind of trade, then your desire is not for Portland to get better...it's just getting rid of Dame

that's the problem with trading Dame....the theory of trading Dame almost always crashes against the wall of what is realistically available
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I don’t understand why you can’t grasp “a player LIKE Maxie”

under 25 very good player is the TYPE of player or players we should look for. We haven’t and aren’t winning with Dame. Let’s try something else
 
Mediocre Man said:
I don’t understand why you can’t grasp “a player LIKE Maxie”

under 25 very good player is the TYPE of player or players we should look for.
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what I'm saying is that the realistic examples of a "player LIKE Maxey" who would be available in a Dame trade are hard to find. So, as long as you're using Maxey as a theory, I'll use the reality of Maxey and what Philly has to trade. What's next, Ben Simmons and Claxton?

Mediocre Man said:
We haven’t and aren’t winning with Dame. Let’s try something else
Click to expand...

maybe, just maybe, what the Blazers are trying to do is put a better team around Dame than Olshey ever did. Olshey never once actually tried to build a team around Dame. Not one fucking time. It was always CJ & Dame

this is a pointless discussion. You're NEVER going to convince me that trading Dame is going to make the Blazers better into a solid playoff team in the next 5 years, or more. And I'm obviously not convincing you that not trading Dame, and making a solid effort to land another all-star is the way to go

obviously, if Dame asks to be traded all bets are off. But I'm convinced the return is going to be relatively shitty
 
wizenheimer said:
what I'm saying is that the realistic examples of a "player LIKE Maxey" who would be available in a Dame trade are hard to find. So, as long as you're using Maxey as a theory, I'll use the reality of Maxey and what Philly has to trade. What's next, Ben Simmons and Claxton?



maybe, just maybe, what the Blazers are trying to do is put a better team around Dame than Olshey ever did. Olshey never once actually tried to build a team around Dame. Not one fucking time. It was always CJ & Dame

this is a pointless discussion. You're NEVER going to convince me that trading Dame is going to make the Blazers better into a solid playoff team in the next 5 years, or more. And I'm obviously not convincing you that not trading Dame, and making a solid effort to land another all-star is the way to go

obviously, if Dame asks to be traded all bets are off. But I'm convinced the return is going to be relatively shitty
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Agreed. We will not get good value for Dame. The best we could get would be picks that we could get lucky with.

And we could get picks to get lucky with a dozen other ways.
 
wizenheimer said:
what I'm saying is that the realistic examples of a "player LIKE Maxey" who would be available in a Dame trade are hard to find. So, as long as you're using Maxey as a theory, I'll use the reality of Maxey and what Philly has to trade. What's next, Ben Simmons and Claxton?



maybe, just maybe, what the Blazers are trying to do is put a better team around Dame than Olshey ever did. Olshey never once actually tried to build a team around Dame. Not one fucking time. It was always CJ & Dame

this is a pointless discussion. You're NEVER going to convince me that trading Dame is going to make the Blazers better into a solid playoff team in the next 5 years, or more. And I'm obviously not convincing you that not trading Dame, and making a solid effort to land another all-star is the way to go

obviously, if Dame asks to be traded all bets are off. But I'm convinced the return is going to be relatively shitty
Click to expand...
Hanging onto Dame or trading Dame isn't just about the best chance at a ring. There are other things to consider.

If it’s unlikely that we will ever win a ring with Dame, it only delays the rebuild that will ultimately need to happen. It’s like staying in a relationship that you know is doomed. Why stay with someone that you know you won’t marry if your ultimate goal is to find a life partner? While you’re with someone that you know you won’t marry, you might miss out on THE ONE.

Also, keeping Dame eats up a huge chunk of our cap and could hamper the development of Sharpe.

He keeps us just good enough to not get good picks but not good enough to win a ring.

But you’re right that Dame gives us our best shot if we are able to put enough talent around him. I’m just not sure if that’s possible.
 
wizenheimer said:
what I'm saying is that the realistic examples of a "player LIKE Maxey" who would be available in a Dame trade are hard to find. So, as long as you're using Maxey as a theory, I'll use the reality of Maxey and what Philly has to trade. What's next, Ben Simmons and Claxton?



maybe, just maybe, what the Blazers are trying to do is put a better team around Dame than Olshey ever did. Olshey never once actually tried to build a team around Dame. Not one fucking time. It was always CJ & Dame

this is a pointless discussion. You're NEVER going to convince me that trading Dame is going to make the Blazers better into a solid playoff team in the next 5 years, or more. And I'm obviously not convincing you that not trading Dame, and making a solid effort to land another all-star is the way to go

obviously, if Dame asks to be traded all bets are off. But I'm convinced the return is going to be relatively shitty
Click to expand...
Which is why I’d like to trade him before it leaks he wants out.

BTW, Sharpe, Clayton and if they hit on a top 5 pick, could be a nice core in a year or 2. If you think Ant is better than I do, then add him to that as well
 
Phatguysrule said:
Agreed. We will not get good value for Dame.
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What do you consider ‘meh’ value?

I’d be fine with a few picks (including an additional 2023 pick) and a decent young building block. You also have to consider the developmental opportunity cost in terms of usage by keeping Dame.

It’s a moot point because I don’t buy that he’s going to leave anytime soon.
 
This is what I don't understand about people saying Dame is leaving if we don't get him the vet help he wants. Dame is under contract. Even if he asks for a trade, it would have to be to a team that has a better chance of winning a title than us AND that team would have to have the pieces needed to make a fair deal for him. I'm not worried about Dame leaving at all. He has said over and over he wants to stay in Portland. In fact, he's said that more often than he's said he wants to win a title. It's not like he can leave us as a free agent.
 
wizenheimer said:
what I'm saying is that the realistic examples of a "player LIKE Maxey" who would be available in a Dame trade are hard to find. So, as long as you're using Maxey as a theory, I'll use the reality of Maxey and what Philly has to trade. What's next, Ben Simmons and Claxton?



maybe, just maybe, what the Blazers are trying to do is put a better team around Dame than Olshey ever did. Olshey never once actually tried to build a team around Dame. Not one fucking time. It was always CJ & Dame

this is a pointless discussion. You're NEVER going to convince me that trading Dame is going to make the Blazers better into a solid playoff team in the next 5 years, or more. And I'm obviously not convincing you that not trading Dame, and making a solid effort to land another all-star is the way to go

obviously, if Dame asks to be traded all bets are off. But I'm convinced the return is going to be relatively shitty
Click to expand...
With all my talk about Dame needing to move on, IF the team can get Siakam for our pick, Ant, Nurk and future draft considerations, then other than center that’s not a bad starting group

Or maybe Detroit would give up Duren and Bogdanovic for Ant and picks?

John Collins for Ant works. What else would that take to get done?

Dame, Sharpe, Grant, Collins and Nurk is a good team. Not a contending team, but a good one
 
Samuel said:
What do you consider ‘meh’ value?

I’d be fine with a few picks (including an additional 2023 pick) and a decent young building block. You also have to consider the developmental opportunity cost in terms of usage by keeping Dame.

It’s a moot point because I don’t buy that he’s going to leave anytime soon.
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We won't get enough value to make us better than we can be with him. We'd have to get lucky with a pick and get a guy as good or better than Dame. And that doesn't happen nearly often enough to count on, IMO.

I think what you suggested is the high end of value we'd get back. And the odds aren't high that we'd get lucky enough to land a an All Star that wants to be in Portland with one of those picks, or that th young player would choose to be.
 
Mediocre Man said:
BTW, Sharpe, Clayton and if they hit on a top 5 pick, could be a nice core in a year or 2. If you think Ant is better than I do, then add him to that as well
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Clayton?

and no, I'd rather Ant was traded

Mediocre Man said:
With all my talk about Dame needing to move on, IF the team can get Siakam for our pick, Ant, Nurk and future draft considerations, then other than center that’s not a bad starting group

Or maybe Detroit would give up Duren and Bogdanovic for Ant and picks?

John Collins for Ant works. What else would that take to get done?

Dame, Sharpe, Grant, Collins and Nurk is a good team. Not a contending team, but a good one
Click to expand...

Siakam seems the most realistic target in my view. But I'm not sure how realistic considering the three years left of both Ant's and Nurk's deals. I think Nurkic may have negative value, all things considered. Ant, Nas, & Keon might be more appealing to Toronto

John Collins? for some reason he fell off a cliff this season. I'd like Ant traded but I'd rather he was traded for more of a sure thing than Collins
 
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