The 2022 Trade Idea Thread, now with more urgency! (1 Viewer)

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
illmatic99 said:
We can extract a first for Roco and shift it to ATL for Collins in a CJ swap if ATL would actually be open to it. I've come up with ideas ad nauseum showing the same.

ATL does desperately need another playmaking guard but we know the deficiencies of putting two non-defending perimeter guys together all too well.
Click to expand...

I think Utah would be a good candidate.
 
Natebishop3 said:
If you're going all-in to try to win while we have Dame, I suspect we would need to trade Ant. Norm is probably the best shooting guard to pair with Dame because he can play defense and he's a good spot up shooter.
Click to expand...
this season has been quite a revelation into dispelling the notion that norm is a good defender. perhaps it's the system, or the fact that he's perpetually undersized, but he's really been bad on that end.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Did they say they needed the first to be from this year?
Click to expand...
i don't buy that ATL would be willing to give up Collins for that package so it's all moot really. But no, it was not specified. The comment came from a rival exec who was trying to get in the Collins convo. Wouldn't surprise me if it was just posturing to bring his value down.
 
If the goal is to win right now with Dame, this is my win now extravaganza.

Starting lineup:

Dame
Simmons
Nas
Grant
Sabonis

Fill in the bench with whoever.

upload_2022-1-27_10-36-7.png

upload_2022-1-27_10-42-27.png
upload_2022-1-27_10-43-22.png
 

Attachments

  • upload_2022-1-27_10-36-7.png
    upload_2022-1-27_10-36-7.png
    289.7 KB · Views: 86
  • upload_2022-1-27_10-42-27.png
    upload_2022-1-27_10-42-27.png
    309.3 KB · Views: 89
  • upload_2022-1-27_10-43-22.png
    upload_2022-1-27_10-43-22.png
    275.7 KB · Views: 83
I think Hart coming here would very positive for this team. He fit Billups system due to he hard nose type of player. His scoring is up and he rebounds very well from his position and he is decent defender he type player I actually wanted Olshey to draft instead swangen. Now who we get besides him we can see. Pairing him with Dame is no brainer to me.
 
illmatic99 said:
Positive numbers for those defensive stats are a bad thing. We're 5.8 pts worse with him on the floor on D. And teams shoot nearly 4% better.
Click to expand...

Powell at SF - 21.5 PER
Opponent at SF - 16.4 PER
Net - +5.1

Points scored - 122
Points allowed - 106
Net +16

:dunno:
 
Natebishop3 said:
Powell at SF - 21.5 PER
Opponent at SF - 16.4 PER
Net - +5.1

Points scored - 122
Points allowed - 106
Net +16

:dunno:
Click to expand...
What does Net PER have to do with defense? Every defensive stat you showed has Norm as very bad.

It's OK to accept that you had it wrong. CJ's brother made the exact same mistake last year.
 
wizenheimer said:
"The Atlanta Hawks have set an asking price for John Collins and, surprisingly, it's not all that high of a price. Atlanta is looking for a first-round pick and starting caliber player in return for Collins."
************************************

"At this stage of the NBA's midseason trade window, the Atlanta Hawks, Portland Trail Blazers, Indiana Pacers, Sacramento Kings and New Orleans Pelicans are considered to be the most active teams in trade conversations ahead of the Feb. 10 deadline, according to league sources.

With the Ben Simmons saga still in apparent limbo, John Collins, Myles Turner, CJ McCollum and Jerami Grant remain the biggest names regularly mentioned by league personnel as likely trade candidates."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ollins-turner-mccollum-grant-more?share=other

(this may have been discussed before but the dateline is today)

CJ for Collins would be a good trade for Portland IMO. But getting a 1st and then shipping it to Atlanta is a problem
Click to expand...

The shadow of Neil continues to hover over the Blazers.
 
TBpup said:
Last night, Danny Marang on the Jacked Ramsey's podcast went into more detail of what he has been talking about for a while in terms of a possible CJ trade with New Orleans.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya7yr8vz

Josh Hart - $12M for 3 years...13.5/7.6/4.2 this season
Satoransky - $10M ending contract
Jaxson Hayes - $5.3M through next season...career .633 FG%

There are a couple of items here of interest. First, $3,515,918. That is the difference between the players coming in and CJ going out. That is very much a Jody-approved, Vulcan-likey number as it would put the Blazer just under the Luxury Tax by $509,760 and turns the Blazers into a team GETTING money versus PAYING money and keeps them out of the Repeater Tax penalty range.

Marang also suggested a couple of picks, which New Orleans has in abundance due to multiple picks and/or swaps coming from the Lakers and Bucks for the Davis and Holiday deals.

That is all well and good from a rebuilding Draft capital, getting under the Lux Tax, and finally decluttering out backcourt a bit although with Hart coming in, that doesn't really declutter, but does open up some shots for other people. Plus, Hart adds a little more size.

Satoransky is just filler on an ending contract which also helps out the Blazers who need to pay And and possibly Nurk.

It's the Jaxon Hayes part that makes me wonder how that would go. He has 12 misdemeanor counts hanging over his head from a domestic complaint/arrest incident. Given the fervor Billups hiring was met with, what would be the ramifications of bringing on Hayes even though as of now, they are just charges. Some of his Draft profiles compared him to Jarrett Allen, which would be something the Blazers could definitely use.

I'm just curious as to the Board's thoughts if something like that were to take place.
Click to expand...

Not a good player coming back in return for CJ. Hart is more close to a vet minimum reserve than a key rotational player. I'd try to get more of an impact player.

If the team can't get anything better for CJ then as a last resort maybe I think of doing this trade if we get some really good picks from the Pelicans. They have some unprotected Lakers picks that may be quite nice.
 
illmatic99 said:
What does Net PER have to do with defense? Every defensive stat you showed has Norm as very bad.

It's OK to accept that you had it wrong. CJ's brother made the exact same mistake last year.
Click to expand...

He's outplaying his opponents when he's on the court by a large margin. :dunno:

Do you think that's simply because he's just outscoring them without playing defense?

On/Off to me is a flawed stat because there are so many factors at play. The system, the rotation, etc. Is he mostly off the court when the starters are out of the game? It gives zero clarification to a lot of factors. But based on when he is on the court, he's outplaying his opponent.


upload_2022-1-27_11-2-51.png

We have a worse net points when he's off the floor.
upload_2022-1-27_11-10-45.png

The most surprising thing to me is how bad his stats have been at shooting guard, but he has barely played at the two with Dame. It has mostly been with CJ (which makes sense why it was so bad.)

upload_2022-1-27_11-13-25.png
 

Attachments

  • upload_2022-1-27_11-2-51.png
    upload_2022-1-27_11-2-51.png
    38 KB · Views: 114
  • upload_2022-1-27_11-10-45.png
    upload_2022-1-27_11-10-45.png
    4.5 KB · Views: 113
  • upload_2022-1-27_11-13-25.png
    upload_2022-1-27_11-13-25.png
    50.3 KB · Views: 115
Natebishop3 said:
Powell at SF - 21.5 PER
Opponent at SF - 16.4 PER
Net - +5.1

Points scored - 122
Points allowed - 106
Net +16

:dunno:
Click to expand...

you omitted this from the 82games data on Powell:

upload_2022-1-27_11-10-10.png

I like 82games but I've always been skeptical about their assignments. Powell hasn't played 15 minutes at SF for every 1 at SG...IMO. So that brings into question their numbers for both Powell and the opponents in terms of SG vs SF

Powell is 12th on the Blazers this year in defensive rating and DBPM. Of course, both of those stats are noisy. He's 3 points worse than the team in defensive rating. I just checked and his defensive rating has been worse than his team's in every season since his rookie year. He has a negative career DBPM but it's close enough to zero to not be conclusive

the eyeball test certainly confirms that Powell is not the defender he was supposed to be when Portland traded for him. He might be better as a full time SG but he certainly not at the level of defense as a partner to Dame that Wesley Matthews was
 

Attachments

  • upload_2022-1-27_11-10-10.png
    upload_2022-1-27_11-10-10.png
    16.3 KB · Views: 112
wizenheimer said:
you omitted this from the 82games data on Powell:

View attachment 44519

I like 82games but I've always been skeptical about their assignments. Powell hasn't played 15 minutes at SF for every 1 at SG...IMO. So that brings into question their numbers for both Powell and the opponents in terms of SG vs SF

Powell is 12th on the Blazers this year in defensive rating and DBPM. Of course, both of those stats are noisy. He's 3 points worse than the team in defensive rating. I just checked and his defensive rating has been worse than his team's in every season since his rookie year. He has a negative career DBPM but it's close enough to zero to not be conclusive

the eyeball test certainly confirms that Powell is not the defender he was supposed to be when Portland traded for him. He might be better as a full time SG but he certainly not at the level of defense as a partner to Dame that Wesley Matthews was
Click to expand...
I left off that part because I don’t care about wins for this conversation. The team is shit.
 
James lamphear said:
I think Hart coming here would very positive for this team. He fit Billups system due to he hard nose type of player. His scoring is up and he rebounds very well from his position and he is decent defender he type player I actually wanted Olshey to draft instead swangen. Now who we get besides him we can see. Pairing him with Dame is no brainer to me.
Click to expand...

I was high on Hart as well coming out of college. Still am but not as much. He is no Wesley Matthews on offense though.
And he is not any bigger than Norman. Actually, NP has more length. Is he a better defensive player? Maybe but is he really a no-brainer next to Dame?

JH: 6′ 8.5” wingspan and 8′ 3.5” standing reach
NP 6'11 wing and an 8'6" standing reach.

JH 33% last two years from 3pt line
Norman is in the high 30's
 
Nate, there is also this:

upload_2022-1-27_11-32-41.png

notice that the opposing team has a offensive rating 9.9 points better when Powell is on the floor, That would be a defensive rating 9.9 points worse when Powell is on the floor. Now, he's been matched up against opposing starting units more so that factor mitigates the numbers quite a bit

as far as net rating, that offense + defense. I'm just talking defense
 

Attachments

  • upload_2022-1-27_11-32-41.png
    upload_2022-1-27_11-32-41.png
    54.5 KB · Views: 108
wizenheimer said:
"The Atlanta Hawks have set an asking price for John Collins and, surprisingly, it's not all that high of a price. Atlanta is looking for a first-round pick and starting caliber player in return for Collins."
************************************

"At this stage of the NBA's midseason trade window, the Atlanta Hawks, Portland Trail Blazers, Indiana Pacers, Sacramento Kings and New Orleans Pelicans are considered to be the most active teams in trade conversations ahead of the Feb. 10 deadline, according to league sources.

With the Ben Simmons saga still in apparent limbo, John Collins, Myles Turner, CJ McCollum and Jerami Grant remain the biggest names regularly mentioned by league personnel as likely trade candidates."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ollins-turner-mccollum-grant-more?share=other

(this may have been discussed before but the dateline is today)

CJ for Collins would be a good trade for Portland IMO. But getting a 1st and then shipping it to Atlanta is a problem
Click to expand...
Collins would fill a need, he's a bonafide PF.
Maybe they would take another younger player instead of a pick?
 
What else stands out to me as funny is that the best lineup out of the top 5 rotations is the one without CJ. By a large margin.

upload_2022-1-27_11-39-28.png
 

Attachments

  • upload_2022-1-27_11-39-28.png
    upload_2022-1-27_11-39-28.png
    49.7 KB · Views: 109
Natebishop3 said:
I left off that part because I don’t care about wins for this conversation. The team is shit.
Click to expand...

I don't care about winning percentage either. That's not why I posted it. I posted it because 82games is claiming Powell plays 15 times as much as SF as he does at SG and I think that's inaccurate. 82games says Simons hasn't played a single minute at PG. That's bullshit. They recorded an on/off for Pau Gasol, as a Blazer, in the 2019/20 season.

as I said, I like their format and things they track but I've learned to be skeptical about how they categorize their data
 
wizenheimer said:
I don't care about winning percentage either. That's not why I posted it. I posted it because 82games is claiming Powell plays 15 times as much as SF as he does at SG and I think that's inaccurate. 82games says Simons hasn't played a single minute at PG. That's bullshit. They recorded an on/off for Pau Gasol, as a Blazer, in the 2019/20 season.

as I said, I like their format and things they track but I've learned to be skeptical about how they categorize their data
Click to expand...

Gotcha.... if their stats are incomplete or incorrect then I will stop using them. Kinda loses the point if they can't be trusted.
 
Pass on J. Grant.

Inefficient 20 ppg scorer - an absolute ball stopper/black hole.

Only won 19 games in Detroit on over 1200 shots taken.

One of the most overrated players in the game.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top