The Blazers have a system now. Do we have the right players for it? (1 Viewer)

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James lamphear said:
One thing style they play they need some shooters on the team and we got one in Dame but they need surround this players with shooters and you will have a team move up fast
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We had a "shooter" in Simons. Yes we could use his offense but is the net a benefit when we lose so much D?

I feel like now there are so many good defenders that can also hit 3s you don't need those offensive specialists any longer.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Let me know when we have Jordan, Pippen, Shaq and Kobe lol.

Phil Jackson brought his system to the Knicks. How'd that work out?
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So you're saying that you don't need to shape the system to the players when you have good players? So you only need to "build the system around the players" when they're not good players? Confusing.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
So you're saying that you don't need to shape the system to the players when you have good players? So you only need to "build the system around the players" when they're not good players? Confusing.
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I'm saying the players are what matters most. Need talent.

Once you have talented players you need to put a system around them that fits them. That system need to emphasize their strengths and minimize their flaws. The system is designed to fit your best players. No you don't find players to fit a system.

Think of Rick Carlisle, had a deep roster in Indy with athleticm. He put in a system to run and they nearly won the finals. He had Dirk in Dallas and had a totally different system that won a title.

It would've been stupid to have Dirk trying to run a frantic fast break offense. Or just as stupid to have Siakam shooting long fall away one leg jumpers all game.
 
MrDraftGuy said:
It's only been a few games. Give it half a season.

International ball is much shorter, features far less games, & allows for certain rules (ex. no defensive 3 second that allows people to camp and rest, handchecking also slows things down). By that, will their bodies and mentality be able to keep up?

It's one thing to compete and do this (ideally, this should be peak basketball), it's another to just run while only chasing a .500 record.

See Ja Morant in Memphis. There's no way a consistent 23-25ppg All Star suddenly just starts shooting 39% out of the blue and get capped at 28mpg.

If he has no ego, he'll work better to adapt but I do think the coaches need to realize this is not soccer since there is far less space to operate and therefore, some individuality is needed as well in order to break through defenses.

Just like Splitter, Iisalo comes from Paris Basketball, too.

You do need shooting for this system. If it's not clicking, like with last night, you need to learn to slow down and utilize your stars.

I don't know that Dame would thrive in this system, either

Either way, should be interesting to revisit this in January
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This is the second post I've seen you make that seems to be tying our style to Splitter, but we were running this style before Chauncey got arrested and already had begun morphing toward this identity/style.

I think the Morant example is dubious. Morant had A LOT of other things going on with him that could have impacted him other than the style of play.

The one other disagreement I have is that you need shooters for this system. You need shooters to win in the NBA in ANY system. I'd argue that if anything the shooting is less important in this type of approach because you'd expect to get more steals and turnovers and chances to run and more free throws by attacking the basket. But Pete Carril's system at Princeton wouldn't have worked without guys that could knock down shots, Tex Winter's triangle offense wouldn't work if guys couldn't knock down shots. In the NBA even more than any level of basketball, your ability to win is predicated on being able to score against good defense, and that means making jumpers.
 
Hoopguru said:
Splitter should communicate to Shaedon & Deni to do whatever it takes to improve their three shot. Tise and Scoot sure did improve since last year. If Shae and Deni want to be all stars they will need a respectfull three ball.
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How is Deni even part of this discussion? He's shooting the most 3s of his career and his highest % from 3. He has his best effective FG% of his career. He's been right around 37% or so from 3 three years straight (if he remains consistent this year). He's also way ahead of his career FT%.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
So, we have a system that, when it doesn't work, means we lose at home to a hated rival missing their three stars, and we're "better than fine"? I mean, I'm not panicking, but I do think it points out some weaknesses that need addressing. I only watched the first half (East Coast Time + time change) but there were moments where nobody even wanted to shoot.
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Pretty much any team that shoots sub-25% from 3 on high volume will lose in the nba, or at any other level. Missing doesn't mean you have a bad system, or bad personnel.

The team is doing great. We'll likely lose tonight against okc, which will put us at 4-4. That's the recipe, play .500 in the West, dominate in the East. We do that, we'll easily make the play-in, and maybe even a top 6 seed. We haven't played a single fucking game against the East yet, which we basically destroyed last year, when our personnel was worse.
 
kjironman1 said:
They already tanked several years. How many more do you want?
Are they supposed to try to lose again this year? Next?
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Nah it's too late now. They did a half assed tank and they probably won't be real contenders with this group.

Just enjoy it as best we can and hope they do it right next time. We probably have a decade or so of disappointment ahead of us again. Unless we get super lucky. But this is Portland.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Nah it's too late now. They did a half assed tank and they probably won't be real contenders with this group.

Just enjoy it as best we can and hope they do it right next time. We probably have a decade or so of disappointed ahead of us again. Unless we get super lucky. But this is Portland.
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Yep. They gotta make some hard moves. Deni is amazing but he isn't a #1 guy yet. Sharpe still has time but i'm losing hope he will ever be a #1 guy too.

We still need a consolidation trade of some sort for a better player. People here have always fell in love with our guys and preach "let it bake." We just don't have the pieces to contend.

I'd like to keep Camara and Deni, anyone else should be available for the right price.
 
JfizzleBlazer said:
Yep. They gotta make some hard moves. Deni is amazing but he isn't a #1 guy yet. Sharpe still has time but i'm losing hope he will ever be a #1 guy too.

We still need a consolidation trade of some sort for a better player. People here have always fell in love with our guys and preach "let it bake." We just don't have the pieces to contend.

I'd like to keep Camara and Deni, anyone else should be available for the right price.
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I don't think anybody else is worth a #1 guy. We're going to need to get lucky and come up with a castoff who blows up.

Probably not gonna happen.

Or maybe Deni, Sharpe, or Scoot turns into a late blooming Hall Of Famer... not likely. But maybe. If we're super lucky...

We can make the best moves possible now and it'll still take a ton of luck to make us a legit contender with this group.

Our best hope might be Splitter being the next great coach.

I have no expectations. This team is built to middle.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't think anybody else is worth a #1 guy. We're going to need to get lucky and come up with a castoff who blows up.

Probably not gonna happen.

Or maybe Deni, Sharpe, or Scoot turns into a late blooming Hall Of Famer... not likely. But maybe. If we're super lucky...

We can make the best moves possible now and it'll still take a ton of luck to make us a legit contender with this group.

Our best hope might be Splitter being the next great coach.

I have no expectations. This team is built to middle.
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Gotta luck into a good draft pick. A Giannis or Jokic falling into our lap for some reason.

Really regretting not taking Coward.
 
I like the comment someone said with respect to Sharpe.

We were hoping for Drexler and he is turning out to be a more of a Kersey.

That significantly changes his value structure. You don't win with a bunch of Kersey's; they can help significantly but they don't taken you over the top.

Many have pointed out we don't have "The Guy". Dame was once upon a time but he is out and not sure he would be The Guy in this system.

Perhaps Scoot can be the guy but based on what I saw last year from Sharpe and so far this year, I just don't see him taking the leap to be what we need which means to me that he is entirely tradable assuming it is for someone who can both fit in the system and be The Guy (or at least a closer approximation of it).

As others have said, Deni reminds me of a bigger Manu but we still need a Duncan to take things over the top.
 
PCmor7 said:
How is Deni even part of this discussion? He's shooting the most 3s of his career and his highest % from 3. He has his best effective FG% of his career. He's been right around 37% or so from 3 three years straight (if he remains consistent this year). He's also way ahead of his career FT%.
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Your right, I know he's doing well with us with respect to all around game. My point was if he or Shaedon want to make the all star team they need to have a solid three point game. Deni is getting there, for sure. Look at league stats many of the all stars are in the top 1-15 3PM & 3P%.
 
Sharpe for CMB is my favorite idea with Dyson Daniels a close second.

I love the idea of building an iron curtain defense
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't think anybody else is worth a #1 guy. We're going to need to get lucky and come up with a castoff who blows up.

Probably not gonna happen.

Or maybe Deni, Sharpe, or Scoot turns into a late blooming Hall Of Famer... not likely. But maybe. If we're super lucky...

We can make the best moves possible now and it'll still take a ton of luck to make us a legit contender with this group.

Our best hope might be Splitter being the next great coach.

I have no expectations. This team is built to middle.
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See this is why I was thinking a flyer on Morant would be worth at least considering. Has he grown up past the guns and strippers? Could Dame and Holiday direct his path? Is Splitter a tough enough coach to control the guy?
Is Portland a place that could change his cards?
 
kjironman1 said:
See this is why I was thinking a flyer on Morant would be worth at least considering. Has he grown up past the guns and strippers? Could Dame and Holiday direct his path? Is Splitter a tough enough coach to control the guy?
Is Portland a place that could change his cards?
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He was just suspended again... I heard he hasn't played more than seven games consecutively since like 2022... Though I haven't actually verified it.

I would not be excited about that.
 
JfizzleBlazer said:
Really regretting not taking Coward.
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it's cool man, you didn't do it! mike schmitz and joe cronin did.

I'm annoyed too--I was a cedric coward supporter at 11. It's looking like coward is one of the only prospects in that range they didn't actually bring into the PF. (they did a secret workout with carter bryant apparently.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
In college sports, sometimes the NFL, maybe other sports you can have a system and get players to fit in.

Can't do that in the NBA. If the NBA you build the system around the players you have. When you change players maybe you have a similar system, but that's a coincidence.
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I don't buy this as black and white.
In the nfl, the system is usually built around the qb. If the quarterback is immobile then the front line is built differently than a qb like Jackson who can run.
If you have Sadiq you build your offense around his run game.

In basketball it is the same, to an extent, but easier to employ a system because all five guys are still essentially doing the same thing. Unlike football where you have 11 players doing very different things.
I think Basketball is the easiest to build players around a system. Not build a system around a player.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Let me know when we have Jordan, Pippen, Shaq and Kobe lol.

Phil Jackson brought his system to the Knicks. How'd that work out?
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You just answered your own question. The same system worked for both the Lakers and Bulls even though the stars were different. Shaq is a different type of player than the others but the system still worked.
Sorry bro, I think your premise is flawed.
No system is 100% foolproof and goi g to win every game. But some systems are proven to work better than others. In most sports, defense wins. You build a defensive system first aNd then plug in the offensive holes as needed.
Defense first usually in football, basketball and baseball(pitching is defense).
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
You just answered your own question. The same system worked for both the Lakers and Bulls even though the stars were different. Shaq is a different type of player than the others but the system still worked.
Sorry bro, I think your premise is flawed.
No system is 100% foolproof and goi g to win every game. But some systems are proven to work better than others. In most sports, defense wins. You build a defensive system first aNd then plug in the offensive holes as needed.
Defense first usually in football, basketball and baseball(pitching is defense).
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The triangle is set up to get open looks in the paint. That's how both LA and Chicago scored. And LA had it's Jordan niche filled with Kobe. But the triangle is also designed to get the post good looks as well.

The triangle is a really good system. It's very flexible.
 
For this style of game, we just need more depth. Losing Scoot and Wesley hurts.
Deni gets too tired as he is running his ass off all game long on both ends.

On the flip side, the competition is tiring in the 4th as well. SGA got a 2nd wind, but he looked tired around the 8-minute mark in the 3rd quarter. He ended up 10-26 from the field.
 
Have to see Scoot play at least half a dozen games to see what it will look like. I would like to know his ETA
 
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