The Brilliance of the Evan Turner Signing: Creating Catch and Shoot Opportunities for Our Shooters

[BlazerCaravan]

easy there new guy, I complimented your post. More playmakers on the floor & roster is a good thing... I was very opposed to the Batum deal for that very reason.

STOMP

Lol "new guy"

 

[Orion Bailey]

Vonleh is the next Allen Crabbe..just wait and see

MOre than that. Vonleh is our next Randolph!

Keep the laughing to a minimum please. I really believe he will be an anchoring force for us in two to three years.

 

[Mediocre Man]

MOre than that. Vonleh is our next Randolph!

Keep the laughing to a minimum please. I really believe he will be an anchoring force for us in two to three years.

So he's going to become an embarrassment to the franchise and get in trouble with the law? I can see that, I guess. I'm assuming you don't mean his play because I can't think of two more different players. Zach is an un-athletic, EXTREMELY skilled, low post scorer. Vonleh is uber athletic and has virtually no low post game to speak of

 

[Orion Bailey]

So he's going to become an embarrassment to the franchise and get in trouble with the law? I can see that, I guess. I'm assuming you don't mean his play because I can't think of two more different players. Zach is an un-athletic, EXTREMELY skilled, low post scorer. Vonleh is uber athletic and has virtually no low post game to speak of

There you go again. Thinking negatively about things off the court. Come on man. Are you trying to stir the nest?
I never said he would be Randolph, I said he would be our Randolph. Your assuming your definition is the same as mine. It's not. I could care less about heasd case, off the court issues, motor, etc. Its all about how he will eat up the opponent in the paint.

You are smart enough to know I mean on the court. Numbers, impact, etc. Unless your not smart enough to understand that? I could care less about

Vonleh has no post game? have you watched summer league? No? Then STFU unless your up to speed. In the second game he tore it up with offensive rebounds, put backs and low post scoring.

 

[jlprk]

Montero has qualites I haven't seen since Julius Erving. All he needs is to learn the fundamentals, like how to dunk. Then he will take Turner's job.

 

[Mediocre Man]

There you go again. Thinking negatively about things off the court. Come on man. Are you trying to stir the nest?
I never said he would be Randolph, I said he would be our Randolph. Your assuming your definition is the same as mine. It's not. I could care less about heasd case, off the court issues, motor, etc. Its all about how he will eat up the opponent in the paint.

You are smart enough to know I mean on the court. Numbers, impact, etc. Unless your not smart enough to understand that? I could care less about

So what is it? Your trolling or your too stupid to put two and two together. I have faith and just think your trolling.

Vonleh has no post game? have you watched summer league? No? Then STFU unless your up to speed. In the second game he tore it up with offensive rebounds, put backs and low post scoring.

So you care a little?
Vonleh has no post game. It could come, but it's definitely not here yet. He is a skilled offensive rebounder, but his footwork on the block is pretty bad. He is literally years away from being close to as skilled as Zach was on the block.
I'm neither trolling or stupid (personal attack, no biggie) I am just looking at him objectively

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'm neither trolling or stupid (personal attack, no biggie)

I had removed it and talked to him about it via private message before you finished your reply.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The Blazers added Evan Turner as the starting small forward. His excellence as a perimeter defender is important, but it is his offensive impact that will bring the most rewards to the Blazers. You might ask, how can a poor 3 point shooter have a transformational impact on an offense? The answer: his passing will create more catch and shoot opportunities for our volume shooters.

Look at these statistics:

Player/Catch and Shoot EFg%/Pull Up EFg%/Catch and Shoot Advantage/Catch and Shoot Ratio
Lillard/ 58.2%/ 45.5%/ 12.7%/ +28%
McCollom/ 63.5%/ 49.9%/ 13.6 %/ +27%
Crabbe/ 60.3%/ 42.6%/ 17.7%/ +42%
Aminu/ 54.5%/ 40.3%/ 14.2%/ +35%

Our four leading scorers shoot much better in catch and shoot situations than on pull ups: their EFg% are around 15% greater. Since EFg% can be converted to points per possession by multiplying by 2, this means that points per possession is maybe 30% greater for catch and shoots. For example, Lillard scores 1.16 PPP on catch and shoots, but only 0.91 on pull ups. Clearly, the more catch and shoots, the better. He scores 28% more points for every pull up that can be converted to a catch and shoot.

How do you do this? Get the ball out of his hands, and let someone else pass to him in a catch and shoot situation. This is were Evan Turner comes in. Last year in Boston, he had 10.4 assist points created in 28.0 minutes per game. Per minute, he was essentially equal to Draymon Green and LeBron James in creating assist points. Each of them has about 0.37-0.38 assist points created per minute, much higher than all forwards except Tyreke Evans.

For the Blazers last year, our third assist man was Mason Plumlee, at 5.5 assist points created in 25.3 minutes. This was 0.22 assist points created per minute. So Turner should help Dame, CJ, and our other shooters have more catch and shoot opportunities.

Compare our back court to the Splash Brothers, who benefit from Draymon Green playing the forward-distributor role. Steph Curry took 58% as many catch and shoot shots as pull up shots. Klay Thompson took twice as many catch and shoots as pull ups. For the Blazers, Lillard took 37% as many catch and shoots as pull ups, and McCollom took 59% as many catch and shoots as pull ups.

So the Blazers can improve their overall offensive performance by increasing the catch and shoot opportunities for Dame and CJ. When looking at the Splash Brothers, you can see that there is certainly a lot of room for a greater share of catch and shoot opportunities.

Adding an assist oriented forward to Portland's guard corps should convert pull ups into catch and shoots, which are much more productive, with around a 25% to 33% gain in shot efficiency. This is why adding Evan Turner was a brilliant move by Neil Olshey. Perhaps it is not a mere coincidence that the two teams in the finals had the two best assist oriented forwards feeding their guards with catch and shoot opportunities.

1. Nice job.
2. Evan Turner is short for a SF. But he did finish 4th in apg for players 6'6" and taller.
3. Guess who finished 3rd, and is a better defender and athlete than Turner?
If only we could've had THAT guy.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

So maybe now this is all making more sense. Maybe, just maybe, Olshey already figured this out.

If only he'd worked it out last year before he traded Batum.

 

[andalusian]

1. Nice job.
2. Evan Turner is short for a SF. But he did finish 4th in apg for players 6'6" and taller.
3. Guess who finished 3rd, and is a better defender and athlete than Turner?
If only we could've had THAT guy.

I love Nico, but he is not worth the salary difference for 0.2 more apg, questionable better defense and less game on the court (because he always has little injuries)

 

[jlprk]

3 good posts can breakdown any troll. Unfortunately I have trouble with one post.

 

[Mediocre Man]

1. Nice job.
2. Evan Turner is short for a SF. But he did finish 4th in apg for players 6'6" and taller.
3. Guess who finished 3rd, and is a better defender and athlete than Turner?
If only we could've had THAT guy.

He is on the shorter side, but he does have a longer standing reach and wingspan than Gordon Hayward, and his height is fine for a small forward

 

[Natebishop3]

1. Nice job.
2. Evan Turner is short for a SF. But he did finish 4th in apg for players 6'6" and taller.
3. Guess who finished 3rd, and is a better defender and athlete than Turner?
If only we could've had THAT guy.

Better defender and athlete....

I don't know if I agree with that.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Better defender and athlete....

I don't know if I agree with that.

Athlete I could get on board. But Defender I don't believe so.

 

[Orion Bailey]

So you care a little?
Vonleh has no post game. It could come, but it's definitely not here yet. He is a skilled offensive rebounder, but his footwork on the block is pretty bad. He is literally years away from being close to as skilled as Zach was on the block.
I'm neither trolling or stupid (personal attack, no biggie) I am just looking at him objectively

Sorry, but how is asking if your a troll or stupid a personal attack?

geez. We sure are in a sensitive world.
Personally MM? I thought you had thicker skin considering all the crap you talk on here, so I thought you were cool.

Okay, I have to play the PR game with you too.

I said in two to three years. you said years. Kinda arguing the same thing?


Again, I asked if you watched this years summer league. Have you? IF not, then you haven't been witness to his improvement, so you really shouldn't be commenting? Arguing? Trolling? Whatever you want to call it. It was a trolling response and you know it...


ANYHOW... back to the relevant topic. The ON COURT PLAY OF OUR PLAYERS...

Yes, I have seen wicked improvement so far with Vonlehs foot speed and post moves. I expect to see serious growth over this next season, and I do believe he will garner the same type of paint presence Randolph gave us. ITs just 2-3 years out to hit that level.

 

[Orion Bailey]

So you care a little?
Vonleh has no post game. It could come, but it's definitely not here yet. He is a skilled offensive rebounder, but his footwork on the block is pretty bad. He is literally years away from being close to as skilled as Zach was on the block.
I'm neither trolling or stupid (personal attack, no biggie) I am just looking at him objectively

Not really. I typed a bunch of stuff and then deleted in error, but Somehow this portion of a line remained and I missed it.

Okay, I apologize for the personal attack even though I believe I was asking a question, not attacking... Either way, you should expect my type of response based on your trolling response. I honestly think better of you. Your comments were not objective based on what I said. You brought up outside life, which any common sense person would l know I am, not referring to that.

I like butting heads with you, but it needs to be relevant talk, not hogwash.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Not really. I typed a bunch of stuff and then deleted in error, but Somehow this portion of a line remained and I missed it.

Okay, I apologize for the personal attack even though I believe I was asking a question, not attacking... Either way, you should expect my type of response based on your trolling response. I honestly think better of you. Your comments were not objective based on what I said. You brought up outside life, which any common sense person would l know I am, not referring to that.

I like butting heads with you, but it needs to be relevant talk, not hogwash.

I hate butting heads. I just can't stand when peoples post are baseless and asinine. Saying Vonleh is like Zach, pointing out his summer league play, questioning someone on their opinion is way more trollish than saying Vonleh is nothing like Randolph. One is just positive, so it appears to the person posting it that it can't be trolling

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

1. Nice job.
2. Evan Turner is short for a SF. But he did finish 4th in apg for players 6'6" and taller.
3. Guess who finished 3rd, and is a better defender and athlete than Turner?
If only we could've had THAT guy.

THAT guy has a contract that is 50M more than OUR guy

 

[Orion Bailey]

I hate butting heads. I just can't stand when peoples post are baseless and asinine. Saying Vonleh is like Zach, pointing out his summer league play, questioning someone on their opinion is way more trollish than saying Vonleh is nothing like Randolph. One is just positive, so it appears to the person posting it that it can't be trolling

I think you need to reread your posts then. For someone who hates butting heads you sure post like you love it.

Again, reread your posts , because you were absolutely trying to lure me in based on off court comments that are irrelevant to what I was saying and I know your smart enough to know this.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I think you need to reread your posts then. For someone who hates butting heads you sure post like you love it.

Again, reread your posts , because you were absolutely trying to lure me in based on off court comments that are irrelevant to what I was saying and I know your smart enough to know this.

Not irrelevant at all when someone compares Vonleh to Randolph. Only thing that makes sense is off court.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Not irrelevant at all when someone compares Vonleh to Randolph. Only thing that makes sense is off court.

Odom does backup your point but the rest not so much.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Not irrelevant at all when someone compares Vonleh to Randolph. Only thing that makes sense is off court.

How do you get to that conclusion?

When talking about player development, why would anyone compare offcourt issues when talking about talent improvement.?

You make no sense...just trolling...
I will make sure to speak/type very slowly and clearly for you to be able to better follow what I am saying, so you don't pull these obsurd comparisons that are obviously not the intent of the post...
Will that work better for you?

 

[Boob-No-More]

Not irrelevant at all when someone compares Vonleh to Randolph. Only thing that makes sense is off court.

And, in what way is Vonleh similar to a young Zach Randolph off the court? None at all, that I can see. He hasn't been arrested, he hasn't broken a teammates eye socket, he doesn't have a Hoops Family. Please provide some specific examples to back up your comparison.

BNM

 

[Mediocre Man]

Odom does backup your point but the rest not so much.

I'm not sure what my point was?

Vonleh doesn't compare to Randolph on the court, I think?

 

[Mediocre Man]

How do you get to that conclusion?

When talking about player development, why would anyone compare offcourt issues when talking about talent improvement.?

You make no sense...just trolling...
I will make sure to speak/type very slowly and clearly for you to be able to better follow what I am saying, so you don't pull these obsurd comparisons that are obviously not the intent of the post...
Will that work better for you?

I suppose if you could explain, this time without personally attacking me....again, how Randolph, one of the best unathletic, low block players in the league, who was already extremely skilled at that coming into the league should be compared with Vonleh, a super athletic, player who possesses poor footwork. He's working on it, sure, but he's nowhere near where Zach was at his age.

 

[Mediocre Man]

And, in what way is Vonleh similar to a young Zach Randolph off the court? None at all, that I can see. He hasn't been arrested, he hasn't broken a teammates eye socket, he doesn't have a Hoops Family. Please provide some specific examples to back up your comparison.

BNM

I don't think he is. I said that because it's the only thing I could think of that he was talking about since their games are completely different

 

[Mediocre Man]

I never said Vonleh was the next Randolph. That was Orion

 

[Boob-No-More]

If only he'd worked it out last year before he traded Batum.

Hindsight is great isn't it? But, if we're going to play that game, it cuts both ways.

His last year in PDX, Nic didn't want to be here, and he played like someone who didn't want to be here. I'm not sure if his trade was done more to appease him, or to placate Aldridge in hope of re-signing him. In either case, Nic didn't want to be here and his play on the court reflected that. As did his comments after leaving. I was a huge Batum supporter his entire time in Portland. He was my daughter's favorite player ever since the first time she saw him play in a preseason game against Utah as a 19-year old rookie. But, it was time for him to go.

Nic had a resurgence in CHO last year, but his improved numbers were still only slightly better than Turner's. His PTS/36, REB/36 and AST/36 were all slightly better than Turner's, but his TOV/36 and USG% were also higher.

Nic played SG in CHO and that seems to be his preferred, most productive position. He would have had to either continue to play SF in POR (becoming further disgruntled), or C.J. would have been forced to remain on the bench. Had we kept Nic, we probably wouldn't have signed Aminu (his defacto replacement at SF, on a MUCH cheaper contract).

Ultimately, we got Turner, a comparable player for $70 million for 4 years, compared to Nic's $125 million over 5 years in CHO. I'll take Turner's production, his contract, and most of all, the fact that he actually wants to be here over Nic.

And, if we had kept Nic, his cap hold would have been nearly $20 million. That would have severely tied Neil's hands and ability to sign/re-sign other players. And, in the end, Nic probably would have signed elsewhere and we would have lost him without compensation. Or, we would have resigned him to more money than Turner makes and probably would not have been able to match Crabbe.

He's gone, get over it. I know Turner doesn't have the desired Euro appeal, but he's nearly as productive, much cheaper and wants to be here.

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

I suppose if you could explain, this time without personally attacking me....again, how Randolph, one of the best unathletic, low block players in the league, who was already extremely skilled at that coming into the league should be compared with Vonleh, a super athletic, player who possesses poor footwork. He's working on it, sure, but he's nowhere near where Zach was at his age.

Yawnnn.....


Cant explain to you. You wont get it because you are very often stubborn and set in your ways/viewpoints, so no matter what I say, you wont read it the way it should be read.

Vonleh is showing me signs of being able to be our next Randolph in the paint. Did I say he is Randolph now or at the same age of? NO. That's you assuming I said more than I did.

I believe Vonleh has the skill set and potential to be a very impact star at power forward. Is that not what Randolph was for us?

Did I ever say their game was the same, or they compare by age? NO. That's all you assuming.. that's why so many people get soo frustrated with you and assume your trolling...

 

[Boob-No-More]

I don't think he is. I said that because it's the only thing I could think of that he was talking about since their games are completely different

And their off court behavior is even more "completely different". Comparing Vonleh's off court behavior to Randolph's is asinine. They literally have absolutely nothing in common in that regard. At least on the court, they play the same position, have low center of gravities and are relentless offensive rebounders. Off the court, Noah Vonleh has more in common with me than he does with Zach Randolph.

BNM