The Brilliance of the Evan Turner Signing: Creating Catch and Shoot Opportunities for Our Shooters

[Orion Bailey]

And their off court behavior is even more "completely different". Comparing Vonleh's off court behavior to Randolph's is asinine. They literally have absolutely nothing in common in that regard. At least on the court, they play the same position, have low center of gravities and are relentless offensive rebounders. Off the court, Noah Vonleh has more in common with me than he does with Zach Randolph.

BNM

MM, these are the reasons why I got frustrated and considered you trolling, because really. Your comparison was soo off compared to what I was saying, I simply assume your trying to troll me....

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yawnnn.....


Cant explain to you. You wont get it because you are very often stubborn and set in your ways/viewpoints, so no matter what I say, you wont read it the way it should be read.

Vonleh is showing me signs of being able to be our next Randolph in the paint. Did I say he is Randolph now or at the same age of? NO. That's you assuming I said more than I did.

I believe Vonleh has the skill set and potential to be a very impact star at power forward. Is that not what Randolph was for us?

Did I ever say their game was the same, or they compare by age? NO. That's all you assuming.. that's why so many people get soo frustrated with you and assume your trolling...

I agree with you, but they aren't my rules.
In fairness, couldn't the same be said about you?
And it's me saying that I believe you are incorrect because their games are literally nothing a like. More like a Jamaal Mashburn type

 

[Mediocre Man]

And their off court behavior is even more "completely different". Comparing Vonleh's off court behavior to Randolph's is asinine. They literally have absolutely nothing in common in that regard. At least on the court, they play the same position, have low center of gravities and are relentless offensive rebounders. Off the court, Noah Vonleh has more in common with me than he does with Zach Randolph.

BNM

Again, I didn't compare them.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I agree with you, but they aren't my rules.
In fairness, couldn't the same be said about you?
And it's me saying that I believe you are incorrect because their games are literally nothing a like. More like a Jamaal Mashburn type

In fairness? I dont think so.

Kneejerk reactor at times? Sure. Excitable at times? sure. But Stubborn? No way man. I have stated many times when my viewpoint has changed and why and who helped me change my view. I am not stubborn or I wouldn't allow my viewpoints to be altered based on someone elses quality rebuttal.

I forgot about Jamal Mashburn and that I can agree with, but I think VOnleh will have a career arc more along the lines of Randolph. Meaning Jamal only last about 7 or 8 years I think? I think VOnleh will last 10-15.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Again, I didn't compare them.

Bullshit. You made a completely asinine, totally unfounded comparison of their off the court behavior and are now trying to backpedal be being intentionally obtuse about it. Next up: you play the victim. You're a victim alright. A victim of your own behavior.

So he's going to become an embarrassment to the franchise and get in trouble with the law? I can see that...

BNM

 

[Mediocre Man]

Bullshit. You made a completely asinine, totally unfounded comparison of their off the court behavior and are now trying to backpedal be being intentionally obtuse about it. Next up: you play the victim. You're a victim alright. A victim of your own behavior.



BNM

You keep attacking, but I never compared them. Someone else did, and since I can't see any of Randolph's game in Vonleh, what else is there?

But please, continue to point it out over and over and over. It's fun for the whole forum. I'm not sure if it's your job, or home life or whatever that makes you do it, but you shoul d stop trying to convince me I am wrong. IF and when I am wrong, I will happily admit it. Like I have with Leonar_

 

[Boob-No-More]

You keep attacking, but I never compared them.

Yes, you did. I quoted the post where you did last time and here it is again:

So he's going to become an embarrassment to the franchise and get in trouble with the law? I can see that...

Did you not write that? Are you claiming someone else hacked your account?

BNM

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yes, you did. I quoted the post where you did last time and here it is again:



Did you not write that? Are you claiming someone else hacked your account?

BNM

Of course I wrote that. It was a question to the person who compared them. Thus the question mark

 

[Orion Bailey]

You keep attacking, but I never compared them. Someone else did, and since I can't see any of Randolph's game in Vonleh, what else is there?

But please, continue to point it out over and over and over. It's fun for the whole forum. I'm not sure if it's your job, or home life or whatever that makes you do it, but you shoul d stop trying to convince me I am wrong. IF and when I am wrong, I will happily admit it. Like I have with Leonar_

Actually BNM is so on point your missing it.

I compared their on court play, you compared their off court play BECAUSE you thought it was silly to compare their on court play. You basically said as much. Man up dude. Stop making excuses for you trying to troll me. But then you are exhibiting that very stubborness I pointed out and many are fully aware of.

What did you admit about Leonard ? Curious.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Actually BNM is so on point your missing it.

I compared their on court play, you compared their off court play BECAUSE you thought it was silly to compare their on court play. You basically said as much. Man up dude. Stop making excuses for you trying to troll me. But then you are exhibiting that very stubborness I pointed out and many are fully aware of.

What did you admit about Leonard ? Curious.

That I never thought he be good enough to be considered a below average NBA player

 

[Orion Bailey]

That I never thought he be good enough to be considered a below average NBA player

Ahh so you admitted you were wrong when you said something like he shouldn't be in the NBA, and now you think he is an NBA player just below average?

Seems fair, but I think he will still improve. Not into a star, but a reliable role player.

 

[Schilly]

If Turner embraces the point forward mentality and also attacks the paint he will be a significant upgrade at the 3 for us. Aminu doesn't have ball handling or scoring skills outside of making a few jumpers or catching a lob for a dunk. Batum was good at ball handling and passing but was far too passive in trying to score and avoided the paint as much as possible.

Turner won't shoot from 3 as well as Batum but he will put more pressure on the defenses. If he can drive and force the D to Collapse he will likely have Aminu and Ezeli cutting back door and Dame and CJ breaking to the open spot on the floor. 2nd unit Plumlee and Harkless (hopefully) cutting and Crabbe and Meyers spotting up.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Ahh so you admitted you were wrong when you said something like he shouldn't be in the NBA, and now you think he is an NBA player just below average?

Seems fair, but I think he will still improve. Not into a star, but a reliable role player.

I think he is awful. His release is slow, he is a shitty defender and a poor defensive rebounder in traffic.

His PER is below average, which is where that came from. I think our team got way better with him out of the line up. BNM will have stats in about 3 minutes to dispute that though

 

[Boob-No-More]

I think he is awful. His release is slow, he is a shitty defender and a poor defensive rebounder in traffic.

His PER is below average, which is where that came from. I think our team got way better with him out of the line up. BNM will have stats in about 3 minutes to dispute that though

Why repost what is common knowledge? When Meyers was shooting 3-pointers at an elite rate (.457 3-FG%) from Christmas until his injury in mid-March the team went 24-13. The rest of the season, we were 20-25. To me, that is the most telling, and most significant stat I can come up with.

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

I think he is awful. His release is slow, he is a shitty defender and a poor defensive rebounder in traffic.

His PER is below average, which is where that came from. I think our team got way better with him out of the line up. BNM will have stats in about 3 minutes to dispute that though

You know, it does seem we did take a leap last year around the same time he went out.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Why repost what is common knowledge? When Meyers was shooting 3-pointers at an elite rate (.457 3-FG%) from Christmas until his injury in mid-March the team went 24-13. The rest of the season, we were 20-25. To me, that is the most telling, and most significant stat I can come up with.

BNM

On cue

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm curious how this devolved from a thread about Turner into an argument about Meyers and Vonleh.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Not that MM really needs me to come to his defense, but anyone who thinks he was actually legitimately comparing Vonleh and Randolph off the court seriously needs to improve their understanding of context. It was patently obvious that MM was using a facetiously ridiculous comparison of their off-court behavior to indicate how ridiculous he thought it was to project any sort of similarity in their on-court games and physical tools.

What's so wrong with him having opinions like "Leonard is terrible" and "Vonleh has no post game"? Let him have his opinions. If you don't like what he says, you really don't have to engage.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I'm curious how this devolved from a thread about Turner into an argument about Meyers and Vonleh.

Two words.

Hint: they both start with M.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Not that MM really needs me to come to his defense, but anyone who thinks he was actually legitimately comparing Vonleh and Randolph off the court seriously needs to improve their understanding of context. It was patently obvious that MM was using a facetiously ridiculous comparison of their off-court behavior to indicate how ridiculous he thought it was to project any sort of similarity in their on-court games and physical tools.

What's so wrong with him having opinions like "Leonard is terrible" and "Vonleh has no post game"? Let him have his opinions. If you don't like what he says, you really don't have to engage.

So, he gets to call out other posters for their ridiculous opinions, but we're not supposed to call him out on his? Hello, this is the internet. That's not how it works.

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

Not that MM really needs me to come to his defense, but anyone who thinks he was actually legitimately comparing Vonleh and Randolph off the court seriously needs to improve their understanding of context. It was patently obvious that MM was using a facetiously ridiculous comparison of their off-court behavior to indicate how ridiculous he thought it was to project any sort of similarity in their on-court games and physical tools.

What's so wrong with him having opinions like "Leonard is terrible" and "Vonleh has no post game"? Let him have his opinions. If you don't like what he says, you really don't have to engage.

Really?

So its okay for him to belittle my comparison with off the wall comparisons of his own, but we have to let him have his say even though he stomped on mine without the ability to rebuttal him? I normally like many of your posts because your spot on, but on this, your off bro.

Come on. BNM is correct, again... Thats not how it works.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Two words.

Hint: they both start with M.

BNM

Not really. Riverman brought up Vonleh (saying he'd be the next Allen Crabbe, presumably suggesting that Turner's presence will open up Vonleh's catch-and-shoot game); then OB called Vonleh the next Randolph (knowing it would be perceived poorly, considering he said"keep the laughing to a minimum please" in that post); then when MM responded as expected (mocking the Vonleh/Randolph comparison), OB went nuts.

I'm sorry, but MM's comment really didn't justify the response it received.

 

[Natebishop3]

Not that MM really needs me to come to his defense, but anyone who thinks he was actually legitimately comparing Vonleh and Randolph off the court seriously needs to improve their understanding of context. It was patently obvious that MM was using a facetiously ridiculous comparison of their off-court behavior to indicate how ridiculous he thought it was to project any sort of similarity in their on-court games and physical tools.

What's so wrong with him having opinions like "Leonard is terrible" and "Vonleh has no post game"? Let him have his opinions. If you don't like what he says, you really don't have to engage.

No post game!?!?!

Nonsense!

http://www.nba.com/video/games/blazers/2016/07/10/1521600018-sas-por-play2.nba/

 

[Orion Bailey]

Not really. Riverman brought up Vonleh (saying he'd be the next Allen Crabbe, presumably suggesting that Turner's presence will open up Vonleh's catch-and-shoot game); then OB called Vonleh the next Randolph (knowing it would be perceived poorly, considering he said"keep the laughing to a minimum please" in that post); then when MM responded as expected (mocking the Vonleh/Randolph comparison), OB went nuts.

I'm sorry, but MM's comment really didn't justify the response it received.

That's where I disagree. I was simply responding in the same type of flambouyant manner in which he replied to my post with.

Yes, I know it would be perceived poorly, but I didn't think I would have off the court comparisons to justify my being off. Doesn't make sense. So with that laughable response, I provided an even more laughable one.

Check my posts. Those who converse rationally and calm, almost always get the same from me. Those who post in extremes, usually get the same from me.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

That's where I disagree. I was simply responding in the same type of flambouyant manner in which he replied to my post with.

Yes, I know it would be perceived poorly, but I didn't think I would have off the court comparisons to justify my being off. Doesn't make sense. So with that laughable response, I provided an even more laughable one.

Check my posts. Those who converse rationally and calm, almost always get the same from me. Those who post in extremes, usually get the same from me.

I know your posts, OB, and you tend to get a bit more fired up than most. MM's response to you was pretty tame, honestly. IMO, you misinterpreted his meaning and went overboard, based primarily on your impression of the poster rather than the post.

Let me ask you this. If I had replied to your post by saying "Well their on-court games and tools couldn't be much more different, so you must be suggesting that Vonleh is going to form 'Hoops Family II'...", would you have reacted as strongly to me as you did to MM?

 

[Reep]

No post game!?!?!

Nonsense!

http://www.nba.com/video/games/blazers/2016/07/10/1521600018-sas-por-play2.nba/

Nice move, but let's be honest. That was a defensive lapse and Vonleh had a wide open lane to the rim. Not exactly Hakeem. Ha probably could have made that move.

I do think Vonleh has some decent post moves in him though.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I know your posts, OB, and you tend to get a bit more fired up than most. MM's response to you was pretty tame, honestly. IMO, you misinterpreted his meaning and went overboard, based primarily on your impression of the poster rather than the post.

Let me ask you this. If I had replied to your post by saying "Well their on-court games and tools couldn't be much more different, so you must be suggesting that Vonleh is going to form 'Hoops Family II'...", would you have reacted as strongly to me as you did to MM?

Absolutely not.

Huge difference between these two responses no?

"So he's going to become an embarrassment to the franchise and get in trouble with the law? I can see that, I guess. I'm assuming you don't mean his play because I can't think of two more different players. Zach is an un-athletic, EXTREMELY skilled, low post scorer. Vonleh is uber athletic and has virtually no low post game to speak of"


"Well their on-court games and tools couldn't be much more different, so you must be suggesting that Vonleh is going to form 'Hoops Family II"

If you think they are the same response, then we read and internalize much differently than one another. His first comment/question is about off the court issues. If maybe he would have said he thinks they are so different on the court, he would ask me to explain my assumption. Not ask questions trying to lure me in.

I do get fired up. Im fired up about this team, about how many fans we have compared to capita polls of other cities. Im fired up in general because I am an energetic person. Doesn't mean I cant be level headed and/or get amped up to try to match what seems to be the same type of fired up statement.

I read his statement as all fired up over mine. I do not read yours as the same. I mean he YELLED the word Extremely skilled. Maybe I misunderstood his fire, but remember this is the internet. I KNOW Im misunderstood by some people here... oh well. I still acknowledge that its on me for being misunderstood. Its how you post and type. So yes the view of MM being fired up about my post is on him and how he posted.

Anyhow. All overblown. I was simply reacting to MM who was reacting to me. Oh well.

 

[Boob-No-More]

No post game!?!?!

Nonsense!

http://www.nba.com/video/games/blazers/2016/07/10/1521600018-sas-por-play2.nba/

Well, I will agree with MM on that one. That looked nothing like the Zach Randolph I remember. Of course, my memory may be faulty. I see Zach had 23 dunks his 3rd year in POR (compared to the 33 Vonleh had last season). So, he wasn't always the earthbound misfit I remember.

Still, Z-Bo has had a TOTAL of 33 dunks in the last five seasons, including only 1 last year. Something tells me Vonleh will probably surpass Zach's 15-year career dunk total of 129 by the time he turns 23.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

So, he gets to call out other posters for their ridiculous opinions, but we're not supposed to call him out on his? Hello, this is the internet. That's not how it works.

BNM

Not at all. But in my mind, if you know how he responds when he's "called out", and you choose to call him out anyway knowing how he will respond, then you are as responsible for the response as he is, since you knew it was coming. To me, it would be like me disagreeing with your opinion on a player and then being annoyed by a 12-paragraph response. It's what you do.

Suddenly, I feel like I'm in a GEICO commercial...

 

[Orion Bailey]

Back to my original thought. that was so heavily twisted and scrutinized of which I got heat for joining the twisting.....

I see Vonleh as providing the same type of numbers Randolph did. Maybe slightly less, but I also see Vonlehs D being much better than Randolph potentially... because I think Vonleh is quicker.
Just the eye test so far and I am comparing Vonleh of now to Zach of the last 7 years, because that's the most time I've seen him play.
So maybe I should say I could see Vonleh becoming what Randolph is/was for Memphis.
I don't think he will be as good of a post player, but he will have a better outside shot, he will reek havoc in the paint on D and be able to run the court.
He will provide a PF impact to our team that we haven't really since since him ( Not considering LMA)

That's all i'm trying to say. If you want to disagree fine, but don't bring up off the court issues because it really is irrelevant and an attempt to derail the convo.